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The Greatest Team in Baseball History

May 4, 2011

            Let us suppose that we look simply and logically at the question of what was the greatest team of all time.   What are the characteristics of greatness in a baseball team?

            I would argue that there are at least seven clear standards by which we can evaluate a baseball team, plus an eighth consideration that must also be kept in mind.   The seven standards are:

 

            1)  Their won-lost record in a season,

            2)  Their runs scored/runs allowed ratio in a season,

            3)  Their won-lost record over a period of years,

            4)  Their runs scored/runs allowed over a period of years,

            5)  Their post-season record in the season in question,

            6)  Their post-season record over a period of time, and

            7)  The quality of the talent on their roster. 

 

            The eighth consideration that is necessary is a time-line adjustment.    A time-line adjustment is necessary because

            a)  The quality of play has improved over time,

            b)  Weak competition is easier to dominate than strong competition, therefore,

            c)  Without a time-line adjustment, we will tend to show the best teams in baseball history as concentrated in the first half of baseball history, when the reality is that the best teams are probably more concentrated in the second half of baseball history than the first. 

 

            So then we have eight criteria of a great team.   Let us say that these eight criteria will be given roughly equal weight, and let us say that, to represent these in a mathematical model, we will give each criteria a potential value of 125 points.   That makes a potential score, for the greatest team ever by every criteria, of 1000 points.

            I can’t promise you that at the end of the day, approximately 16 pages from here, I will have an absolutely convincing answer to the question of what was the greatest team of all time.  I will promise you, however, that I didn’t decide on the answer first and then make up the method to fit my answer.   I did the best I could to construct a system that evaluates each team fairly. 

 

 

            1)  The won-lost record in a season.    

            OK, there are 2,606 baseball teams in major league history, counting the teams from 1876 to 1899 as major league teams, which they really weren’t, but. . .that’s another issue.

            We want a 0-to-125 scale, with an average team at 62.5 or thereabouts.   If we simply subtracts losses from wins for each team—(How far is this team above .500?)—the average score is zero.    But if we make it Wins Minus Losses, plus 62, but not more than 125 nor less than zero, then we have a 0-to-125 scale with 27 teams tied for the bottom spot at zero, and eight teams tied for the top spot with 125.   The eight teams that score at 125 are these:

             

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

G

W

L

WPct

W-L + 62

Score

1906

Chicago

Cubs

NL

154

116

36

.763

142

125

1884

St. Louis

Maroons

UA

113

92

19

.829

135

125

2001

Seattle

Mariners

AL

162

116

46

.716

132

125

1909

Pittsburgh

Pirates

NL

154

110

42

.724

130

125

1954

Cleveland

Indians

AL

156

111

43

.721

130

125

1902

Pittsburgh

Pirates

NL

141

103

36

.741

129

125

1927

New York

Yankees

AL

155

110

44

.714

128

125

1998

New York

Yankees

AL

162

114

48

.704

128

125

 

            The average score on this scale is 62.08, the standard deviation 25.97.

            If there are 2,606 teams in baseball history then the halfway mark, chronologically by counting teams, would be 1,303.     Team number 1,303 would have played in 1960—thus, six of these eight first-place teams would be concentrated in the first half of baseball history.

 

            2)  The Runs Scored/Runs Allowed Ratio 

 

            We can deal with this, of course, as the Pythagorean ratio.    The average Pythagorean ratio for all teams in major league history is .500.  Less than 1% of all teams are either over .750 or under .250, and all of those that are over .750 or under .250 played in 1942 or before, most of them long before.   We can "scale" these to 0-to-125, then, by this process:

 

            Pythagorean Winning Percentage

            Minus .500

            Times 2

            Plus .500

            Times 125

 

            We round that to the nearest integer, and impose a rule that no team will be over 125 or less than zero.     By this process the average score is 62.52, and the standard deviation is 22.95.  There are ten teams in history than score at 125 by this process, which are:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

R

R

WPct

Score

Adjusted Score

1876

Chicago

Cubs

NL

624

257

.855

151.2432

125

1884

St. Louis

Maroons

UA

887

429

.810

140.1063

125

1885

New York

Giants

NL

691

370

.777

131.7935

125

1906

Chicago

Cubs

NL

704

381

.773

130.8652

125

1882

Cincinnati

Reds

AA

489

268

.769

129.7535

125

1885

Chicago

Cubs

NL

834

470

.759

127.2407

125

1902

Pittsburgh

Pirates

NL

775

440

.756

126.5601

125

1939

New York

Yankees

AL

967

556

.752

125.3858

125

1884

New York

Metropolitians

AA

734

423

.751

125.1715

125

1879

Providence

Grays

NL

612

355

.748

124.5591

125

 

            Combining Scores 1 and 2, the top eleven teams in baseball history to this point in our analysis are:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

Score 1

Score 2

Total

1884

St. Louis

Maroons

UA

125

125

250

1902

Pittsburgh

Pirates

NL

125

125

250

1906

Chicago

Cubs

NL

125

125

250

1885

Chicago

Cubs

NL

124

125

249

1939

New York

Yankees

AL

123

125

248

1885

New York

Giants

NL

120

125

245

1927

New York

Yankees

AL

125

118

243

1884

Providence

Grays

NL

118

124

242

1909

Pittsburgh

Pirates

NL

125

115

240

1886

Chicago

Cubs

NL

118

119

237

1904

New York

Giants

NL

122

115

237

 

            Nine of the 11 from the years 1884 to 1909; I warned you about this problem.

 

            3)  The Won-Lost Record over a period of years.

 

            Let us say that each team is represented by their won-lost record over the five-year period of which this season is the center.    The 1908 Cubs (Tinker to Evers to Chance) are represented by the Cubs from 1906 to 1910; this team had the greatest five-year winning percentage in the history of baseball:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

From

To

5 yr W

5 yr L

5 Yr Pct

1908

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1906

1910

530

235

.693

1887

St. Louis

Cardinals

AA

1885

1889

449

205

.687

1886

St. Louis

Cardinals

AA

1884

1888

424

194

.686

1907

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1905

1909

518

246

.678

1896

Baltimore

Orioles

NL

1894

1898

450

214

.678

1884

Cincinnati

Outlaw Reds

UA

1882

1886

69

34

.670

1884

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1882

1886

353

176

.667

1884

Milwaukee

Cream Cities

UA

1882

1886

8

4

.667

1906

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1904

1908

507

257

.664

1930

Philadelphia

A's

AL

1928

1932

505

258

.662

 

            We are crediting the Milwaukee Cream Cities with a five-year won-lost record although they actually only lasted for two weeks; damned generous of us, but it won’t ultimately affect the rankings.   By this test, by the way, the most recent team among the top 35 teams would be the 1944 Cardinals.

 

Let us say that on this scale, a .667 five-year winning percentage is a perfect 125, whereas a .333 five-year winning percentage is a zero.   We can accomplish that by:

 

 

Five-Year Winning Percentage

            Minus .500

            Times 3

            Plus .500

            Times 125

 

Limited to zero and 125 and converted to integers, of course.   This creates an average score for this category of 62.64, and a standard deviation of 25.52.   Through three tests, then, these are the eleven best teams of all time:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

Score 1

Score 2

Score 3

Total

1906

Chicago

Cubs

NL

125

125

124

374

1885

Chicago

Cubs

NL

124

125

119

368

1939

New York

Yankees

AL

123

125

118

366

1902

Pittsburgh

Pirates

NL

125

125

113

363

1909

Chicago

Cubs

NL

117

119

122

358

1907

Chicago

Cubs

NL

124

108

125

357

1944

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

118

116

122

356

1880

Chicago

Cubs

NL

112

123

119

354

1942

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

120

116

118

354

1886

Chicago

Cubs

NL

118

119

116

353

1887

St. Louis

Cardinals

AA

118

110

125

353

 

Cub fans are hot; who are the Yankees, after all?   Johnny-come-latelies. 

OK, at some point some "modern" teams are going to have to start showing up in the competition, and I probably don’t want to spring those on you at the last moment, so these are the top ten teams (so far) of the years 1961-2010:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

Score 1

Score 2

Score 3

Total

1998

New York

Yankees

AL

125

109

101

335

1969

Baltimore

Orioles

AL

118

111

101

330

2001

Seattle

Mariners

AL

125

109

94

328

1975

Cincinnati

Reds

NL

116

106

104

326

1998

Atlanta

Braves

NL

112

105

107

324

1970

Baltimore

Orioles

AL

116

101

105

322

1961

New York

Yankees

AL

118

99

104

321

1971

Baltimore

Orioles

AL

106

103

108

317

1986

New York

Mets

NL

116

99

101

316

1993

Atlanta

Braves

NL

108

101

104

313

 

The best modern team is at this juncture 18 points out of the top ten.    Most of those are obvious candidates, no?   The 1970 Orioles, the Big Red Machine, the ’61 and ’98 Yankees and the 1986 Mets; these are among the teams that came up immediately when we started discussing this stuff in the "Hey, Bill" section.

 

4)  Runs Scored/Runs Allowed over a period of years.

 

Same process; we look at the runs scored and allowed by the team over a five-year period, and each team is represented by five-year period of which this team is the center.

 

The most runs ever scored by a team in a five-year period, you may be interested to know (or not) was 5,072, by the Baltimore Orioles, 1894-1898.   The only other team to score 5,000 runs in a five-year period was the Boston Beaneaters, 1893-1897, and the post-1900 record is 4,957, by the Yankees (1929-1933).

Not counting a couple of 19th century teams, the best five-year ratio of runs to runs allowed was 1.55 to 1, by the Chicago Cubs of 1905 to 1909 (Tinker to Evers to Chance.)   We express this, of course, as a Pythagorean Winning Percentage, creating this list of the best five-year Pythagorean winning percentages, not counting one-year teams:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

5 yr Runs

5 yr OR

P WPct

1882

Cincinnati

Reds

AA

1905

1193

.718

 

1907

Chicago

Cubs

NL

3199

2061

.707

 

1908

Chicago

Cubs

NL

3243

2118

.701

 

1887

St. Louis

Cardinals

AA

4498

2995

.693

 

1886

St. Louis

Cardinals

AA

4090

2724

.693

 

1884

Chicago

Cubs

NL

3851

2565

.693

 

1896

Baltimore

Orioles

NL

5072

3425

.687

 

1883

Chicago

Cubs

NL

3501

2389

.682

 

1937

New York

Yankees

AL

4795

3301

.678

 

1906

Chicago

Cubs

NL

3164

2183

.677

 

 

I get the feeling I must be re-tracing Rob and Eddie’s steps here; let’s hope that I only re-trace MOST of them, and not all of them.   Anyway, let’s say that .700 is 125 points, and .300 is zero.   Then:

 

Five year Pythagorean Winning Percentage

Minus .500

Times 2.5

Plus .500

Times 125

Converted into an integer, yada yada.  

 

This creates a score with an average of 62.64, and a standard deviation of 22.55—consistent with our other scores.   This, then, is our Round 4 updated list of the greatest teams ever:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

Score 1

Score 2

Score 3

Score 4

Total

1907

Chicago

Cubs

NL

125

125

124

125

499

1906

Chicago

Cubs

NL

124

125

125

118

492

1887

St. Louis

Cardinals

AA

125

125

118

123

491

1896

Baltimore

Orioles

NL

125

125

113

121

484

1886

St. Louis

Cardinals

AA

125

125

109

123

482

1908

Chicago

Cubs

NL

125

125

106

125

481

1885

Chicago

Cubs

NL

119

125

124

112

480

1943

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

123

123

118

115

479

1944

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

122

122

118

116

478

1909

Chicago

Cubs

NL

122

122

117

114

475

 

If we limit it to teams post-1910, we get this list:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

Score 1

Score 2

Score 3

Score 4

Total

1943

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

123

123

118

115

479

1944

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

122

122

118

116

478

1939

New York

Yankees

AL

118

118

123

114

473

1937

New York

Yankees

AL

121

121

112

118

472

1929

Philadelphia

A's

AL

122

122

120

104

468

1930

Philadelphia

A's

AL

123

123

112

108

466

1942

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

118

118

120

108

464

1938

New York

Yankees

AL

119

119

108

117

463

1941

New York

Yankees

AL

117

117

110

114

458

1954

New York

Yankees

AL

115

115

114

111

455

 

If we limit it to teams post-World War II (the Big One), we get this:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

Score 1

Score 2

Score 3

Score 4

Total

1954

New York

Yankees

AL

115

115

114

111

455

1953

New York

Yankees

AL

115

115

109

109

448

1955

New York

Yankees

AL

116

116

100

112

444

1953

Brooklyn

Dodgers

NL

112

112

118

98

440

1952

New York

Yankees

AL

116

116

98

109

439

1954

Cleveland

Indians

AL

107

107

125

98

437

1951

New York

Yankees

AL

113

113

104

106

436

1956

New York

Yankees

AL

112

112

102

109

435

1970

Baltimore

Orioles

AL

105

105

116

107

433

1971

Baltimore

Orioles

AL

108

108

106

110

432

 

The list is taken over by the 1950s Yankees at this point due to their exceptional consistency, performing very well every year.   If we limit it to teams post-1970, we get this:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

Score 1

Score 2

Score 3

Score 4

Total

1970

Baltimore

Orioles

AL

105

105

116

107

433

1971

Baltimore

Orioles

AL

108

108

106

110

432

1998

Atlanta

Braves

NL

107

107

112

99

425

1997

Atlanta

Braves

NL

110

110

102

101

423

1975

Cincinnati

Reds

NL

104

104

116

98

422

1998

New York

Yankees

AL

101

101

125

94

421

1974

Cincinnati

Reds

NL

110

110

96

102

418

1999

Atlanta

Braves

NL

103

103

106

98

410

1993

Atlanta

Braves

NL

104

104

108

94

410

1995

Atlanta

Braves

NL

106

106

98

99

409

 

 

5)  Post-Season Records (Single Season)

 

Here the nature of our challenge changes.   Now we have to make up a set of rules which is consistent with our goals and consistent with the rest of the methodology.

Obviously all teams that win the World Series must be considered superior to all teams that do not win the World Series; to argue otherwise would be difficult.    I would suggest that, in the way that people commonly think about this problem, winning the World Series or not winning the World Series is the only meaningful distinction.   People talk about those great Atlanta Braves teams of the 1990s. . .they didn’t win; that’s all.   If they didn’t win the World Series, they’re nothing.

Let me ask this:   is winning the World Series as impressive when you only have to beat one other team as it is when you have to beat seven others?   I would suggest that it is not.  I would suggest that winning a MODERN World Series, where you have to fight your way through levels of playoff competition, is a more impressive accomplishment than simply winning one series.

As you probably know, I’m guessing, no team has ever swept all three levels of post-season play.   The 1999 Yankees and the 2005 White Sox swept through the series at 11-1, and the 1976 Reds were 7-0 when there were only two rounds.

 

How about this:

1)  All teams that win the World Series are scored between 106 and 125 points. 

2)  The scoring for those teams is as follows:

                        100 points,

                        + 5 points for each round of competition won,

                      &nbs​p; + 1 point for each game won in post-season play,

- 1 point for each game lost in post-season play

 

Teams that won the World Series 4-3 when there was only one round of play, that’s 106 points.   For the 1999 Yankees and 2005 White Sox, it’s 125 points.  

 

Teams that don’t win the World Series are graded as follows

100 * their season winning percentage, but not to exceed their actual win total,

+ 9 points if they qualified for post-season play or would have qualified for post-season play if there had been a post-season championship,

+ 3 points for each win in post-season play, if they won games in post-season play.

 

The 19th century "championships" I counted as playoff games, but not as true World Series games.  The lowest-scoring World Championship teams, as I said, are at 106 points.   The highest scoring non- World Series winning teams are the 1996 Cleveland Indians, who score at 105 points, and the 1887 Detroit Wolverines, who score at 103.   The ’96 Indians went 100-44 in regular season, won two rounds of playoffs, 3-0 and 4-2, then lost the World Series 4-2.   The 1887 Wolverines won the National League, then defeated the American Association champion St. Louis team 10-5 in a fifteen-game playoff.    These are the highest-scoring World Championship teams in this system:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

Score

1999

New York

Yankees

AL

125

2005

Chicago

White Sox

AL

125

1998

New York

Yankees

AL

124

1995

Atlanta

Braves

NL

123

2004

Boston

Red Sox

AL

123

2007

Boston

Red Sox

AL

123

2008

Philadelphia

Phillies

NL

123

1996

New York

Yankees

AL

122

2009

New York

Yankees

AL

122

2010

San Francisco

Giants

NL

122

1997

Florida

Marlins

NL

121

2000

New York

Yankees

AL

121

2002

Anaheim

Angels

AL

121

2006

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

121

 

And these are the highest-scoring non-World Series winners:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

W

L

WPct

PS W

PS L

Score

1995

Cleveland

Indians

AL

100

44

.694

9

6

105

1887

Detroit

Wolverines

NL

79

45

.637

10

5

103

2001

New York

Yankees

AL

95

65

.594

10

7

98

2002

San Francisco

Giants

NL

95

66

.590

10

7

98

2003

New York

Yankees

AL

101

61

.623

9

8

98

1885

Chicago

Cubs

NL

87

25

.777

3

3

96

1996

Atlanta

Braves

NL

96

66

.593

9

7

95

2004

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

105

57

.648

7

8

95

1887

St. Louis

Cardinals

AA

95

39

.709

5

10

95

1999

Atlanta

Braves

NL

103

59

.636

7

7

94

2009

Philadelphia

Phillies

NL

93

69

.574

9

6

93

2008

Tampa Bay

Rays

AL

97

65

.599

8

8

93

1889

New York

Giants

NL

83

43

.659

6

3

93

2001

Seattle

Mariners

AL

116

46

.716

4

6

93

1884

Providence

Grays

NL

84

28

.750

3

0

93

 

By this system, the average score for all teams in baseball history is 53.48, and the Standard Deviation is 17.39.    You can think what you like of the system, but I think it’s about the best I can do to represent single-season post-season success on a scale that is consistent with the rest of the system, without either ignoring this performance or heroically over-valuing it, as I think many people do.

 

This element of the system begins, for the first time, to re-balance the system to make it more fair to modern teams.   The 1907 and 1908 Cubs, however, won the World Series both years (4-0 and 4-1), and thus that team stays in the top spot through five rounds of play:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

Score 1

Score 2

Score 3

Score 4

Score 5

Total

1907

Chicago

Cubs

NL

125

125

124

125

109

608

1908

Chicago

Cubs

NL

125

125

106

125

108

589

1887

St. Louis

Cardinals

AA

125

125

118

123

95

586

1944

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

122

122

118

116

107

585

1906

Chicago

Cubs

NL

124

125

125

118

91

583

1939

New York

Yankees

AL

118

118

123

114

109

582

1937

New York

Yankees

AL

121

121

112

118

108

580

1885

Chicago

Cubs

NL

119

125

124

112

96

576

1929

Philadelphia

A's

AL

122

122

120

104

108

576

1896

Baltimore

Orioles

NL

125

125

113

121

91

575

 

In our last round the 1954 Yankees were the highest-scoring team since World War II.  Now they’re knocked well down the list because they didn’t win the pennant, thus didn’t qualify for post-season play.   This is now the list of the top-scoring teams since World War II:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

Score 1

Score 2

Score 3

Score 4

Score 5

Total

1953

New York

Yankees

AL

115

115

109

109

107

555

1970

Baltimore

Orioles

AL

105

105

116

107

116

549

1952

New York

Yankees

AL

116

116

98

109

107

546

1998

New York

Yankees

AL

101

101

125

94

124

545

1951

New York

Yankees

AL

113

113

104

106

107

543

1956

New York

Yankees

AL

112

112

102

109

106

541

1949

New York

Yankees

AL

111

111

102

106

108

538

1950

New York

Yankees

AL

110

110

104

104

109

537

1975

Cincinnati

Reds

NL

104

104

116

98

114

536

1995

Atlanta

Braves

NL

106

106

98

99

123

532

 

 

6)  Multi-Year Post-Season Records

 

OK, if you’ve been following along, you can probably guess how we’re going to do this.   First, we’re going to total up the Post-season points earned by each franchise over each five-year period.    The highest-scoring teams in post-season play, over a period of five years, are:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

From

To

5-year Score

1998

New York

Yankees

AL

1996

2000

566

2000

New York

Yankees

AL

1998

2002

544

1999

New York

Yankees

AL

1997

2001

542

1951

New York

Yankees

AL

1949

1953

538

2001

New York

Yankees

AL

1999

2003

518

1997

New York

Yankees

AL

1995

1999

515

1952

New York

Yankees

AL

1950

1954

497

1937

New York

Yankees

AL

1935

1939

493

1950

New York

Yankees

AL

1948

1952

492

1939

New York

Yankees

AL

1937

1941

491

1949

New York

Yankees

AL

1947

1951

491

 

The highest-scoring non-Yankee team of all time is. .. .you may not like this. . .the 1997 Atlanta Braves.  

Yeah, I know, the Braves are regarded as post-season flops, but the fact is, the Braves won nine post-season series from 1995 to 1999—an immense accomplishment.    The Oakland A’s of 1971-1975 are impressive, too, and they’re right behind the Braves, but the A’s were in 8 post-season series and were swept in two of them, although they won the other six.   The Braves were in 14 post-season series and won 9 of them.

Anyway, how do we make this a "score"?   The 2,606 teams in major league history have post-season success scores ranging from 566 to 2, but if we take the range from 20 to 520, we have all of the teams except 14.    We can make a score out of this, then, in this way:

 

5-year post-season success score,

Minus 20

Divided by 4

Converted into the nearest integer

But not less than zero or more than 125. 

 

That gives us a "Score 6" with an average of 59.87 and a standard deviation of 17.77.    Through six rounds, these are now the top 10 teams. 

 

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

Score 1

Score 2

Score 3

Score 4

Score 5

Score 6

Total

1907

Chicago

Cubs

NL

125

125

124

125

109

104

712

1939

New York

Yankees

AL

118

118

123

114

109

118

700

1908

Chicago

Cubs

NL

125

125

106

125

108

109

698

1937

New York

Yankees

AL

121

121

112

118

108

118

698

1944

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

122

122

118

116

107

111

696

1938

New York

Yankees

AL

119

119

108

117

109

118

690

1887

St. Louis

Cardinals

AA

125

125

118

123

95

102

688

1906

Chicago

Cubs

NL

124

125

125

118

91

102

685

1929

Philadelphia

A's

AL

122

122

120

104

108

102

678

1941

New York

Yankees

AL

117

117

110

114

108

110

676

 

And these are the top ten teams since World War II.   We’ll name the scores GT1 (Great Team 1) through GT6 so that we can compact the chart in a minute:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

GT1

GT 2

GT 3

GT 4

GT 5

GT 6

Total

1998

New York

Yankees

AL

101

101

125

94

124

125

670

1951

New York

Yankees

AL

113

113

104

106

107

125

668

1953

New York

Yankees

AL

115

115

109

109

107

112

667

1952

New York

Yankees

AL

116

116

98

109

107

119

665

1949

New York

Yankees

AL

111

111

102

106

108

118

656

1950

New York

Yankees

AL

110

110

104

104

109

118

655

1999

New York

Yankees

AL

103

103

96

94

125

125

646

1956

New York

Yankees

AL

112

112

102

109

106

105

646

1970

Baltimore

Orioles

AL

105

105

116

107

116

96

645

1995

Atlanta

Braves

NL

106

106

98

99

123

106

638

 

 

7)  The quality of the talent on the roster. 

 

Here, again, we have to shift our approach.     We can evaluate the quality of the talent on the roster by the Teams-on-Paper method, which was explained in a series of articles posted here a little more than a year ago, still available to you for your reference.   Two years ago?   Whatever.   In fact, it was the realization that I could combine with Teams-on-Paper approach with traditional analysis to create a new look at this issue. . .it was that that provoked me to write this article.

The Teams-on-Paper method looks past the question of "did this player have a good year", and asks instead "is this a quality player?   What quality of a player are we dealing with here?"   Juan Marichal in 1971 and Clyde Wright in 1972 had very similar seasons, both going 18-11 with ERAs of 2.94 and 2.98—still, Juan Marichal is Juan Marichal, Clyde Wright is Clyde Wright.   One thing that we expect of a great team is that it have some Juan Marichals along with the Clyde Wrights.

I’m not going to re-visit those arguments; the articles about that are still online if you want to read them (Articles, March, 2009.)   The conclusion of that method was that the two greatest teams of all time, in terms of the talent on the roster, were the 1930s Yankees and the 1970s Cincinnati Reds, that the Yankees were stronger than the Reds, and that the strongest roster of all time was the 1931 Yankees.   We score the 1931 Yankees at 315 points; again, you can read the article if you want to know what that means.    How do we convert that into a 0-to-125 score?

Less than 65 points in the Teams-on-Paper Method will be zero points for Great Teams 7

65 (Teams on Paper) is zero (Great Teams 7)

Every two points above 65 (TOP) is 1 point (GT7)

315 (TOP) is 125 (GT7)

 

Another problem is that I don’t have data for all teams.   It’s time-consuming to figure Teams On Paper Scores; I figured 252 teams with the original study, and I figured scores now for all the other teams that are serious candidates to be ranked among the all-time greats, but that still leaves 2,000 and some teams that I don’t have scores for.   I just entered the score for all of those teams as "55", which makes a norm for all teams in the data of 57; the standard deviation is low (11), but what’s more relevant is the standard deviation among the top teams.

The most impressive rosters I found for any teams I had not previously figured were for the 1990s Atlanta Braves, with Chipper and Andruw, the Crime Dog, and the Big Three. . .six players of Hall of Fame or near-Hall of Fame stature on those rosters.

            This is the all-time list, updated through seven scores:

 

YEAR

City

Team

Lg

GT1

GT2

GT3

GT4

GT5

GT6

GT7

Total

1907

Chicago

Cubs

NL

125

125

124

125

109

104

96

808

1937

New York

Yankees

AL

121

121

112

118

108

118

98

796

1908

Chicago

Cubs

NL

125

125

106

125

108

109

96

794

1938

New York

Yankees

AL

119

119

108

117

109

118

101

791

1939

New York

Yankees

AL

118

118

123

114

109

118

91

791

1906

Chicago

Cubs

NL

124

125

125

118

91

102

96

781

1930

Philadelphia

A's

AL

123

123

112

108

107

102

92

767

1929

Philadelphia

A's

AL

122

122

120

104

108

102

88

766

1944

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

122

122

118

116

107

111

69

765

1998

New York

Yankees

AL

101

101

125

94

124

125

90

760

 

            I should also point out here that the Teams-on-Paper approach discriminates against teams from recent seasons, since the scores are based on what players did over the course of their careers, and the system is thus comparing incomplete careers to completed careers.   The system gives low scores to teams from 2005 to the present—but that’s alright, at least by me.   I don’t want to be declaring the 2009 Phillies the greatest team ever anyway; I think that’s the sort of conclusion that you reach when you get a little perspective on their accomplishments. 

 

            8)  The Time Line Adjustment

 

            To this point in our analysis, 68 of the top 100 teams in history, and 9 of the top 10, played before 1960--that is, in the first half of baseball history.   51 of the top 100 played before 1940.    All of the top teams in baseball history played a long time ago.

            I don’t believe that that is true—nor, I think, does anyone else, now that Dutch Schultz has gone to his reward.   (Dutch was a very active member of SABR back in the old days, when SABR was a collection of cranks and hobbyists, rather than a collection of academics and quasi-academics.   Dutch was a very sweet man and I was quite fond of him, but Dutch resented the hyping of Joe DiMaggio when Joe came to the majors in 1936, and never accepted that DiMaggio was a better ballplayer than his hero, Al Simmons.    He sincerely believed that baseball had reached its apogee about 1934, and had been in decline ever since.   There would never be another Al Simmons in his eyes.)

            Anyway, another way to look at this is to look at the top scores by era.   Let’s look at the top ten teams of 1900-1909, 1910-1919, 1920-1929, etc.   These are the average scores of the top teams, by era:

 

 

 

1900

-

1919

709

 

 

1920

-

1939

720

 

 

1940

-

1959

712

 

 

1960

-

1979

684

 

 

1980

-

1999

664

 

            The average of the top teams of the 1920s and 1930s was 720; the average of the top teams from 1980 to 1999 was 664.   The average went down by 56 points in 60 years.   I don’t think the recent teams are weaker than the early teams; I think they’re stronger.   I don’t want to make them systematically stronger, but I want to flatten it out.

            What I am essentially going to do here is to add one point per year, but there is more to it than that.    While we are dealing with the time line, we should also deal with some of the other obvious factors that cause the quality of talent to dip or soar.    But, as a starting point, let’s say that 2010 = 125, and each year before 2010 is one less:

 

 

 

1880

0

1890

5

1900

15

 

 

1881

0

1891

6

1901

16

 

 

1882

0

1892

7

1902

17

 

 

1883

0

1893

8

1903

18

 

 

1884

0

1894

9

1904

19

 

 

1885

0

1895

10

1905

20

1876

0

1886

1

1896

11

1906

21

1877

0

1887

2

1897

12

1907

22

1878

0

1888

3

1898

13

1908

23

1879

0

1889

4

1899

14

1909

24

 

 

1910

25

1920

35

1930

45

1940

55

1911

26

1921

36

1931

46

1941

56

1912

27

1922

37

1932

47

1942

57

1913

28

1923

38

1933

48

1943

58

1914

29

1924

39

1934

49

1944

59

1915

30

1925

40

1935

50

1945

60

1916

31

1926

41

1936

51

1946

61

1917

32

1927

42

1937

52

1947

62

1918

33

1928

43

1938

53

1948

63

1919

34

1929

44

1939

54

1949

64

 

 

1950

65

1960

75

1970

85

1980

95

1951

66

1961

76

1971

86

1981

96

1952

67

1962

77

1972

87

1982

97

1953

68

1963

78

1973

88

1983

98

1954

69

1964

79

1974

89

1984

99

1955

70

1965

80

1975

90

1985

100

1956

71

1966

81

1976

91

1986

101

1957

72

1967

82

1977

92

1987

102

1958

73

1968

83

1978

93

1988

103

1959

74

1969

84

1979

94

1989

104

 

 

1990

105

2000

115

2010

125

1991

106

2001

116

 

 

1992

107

2002

117

 

 

1993

108

2003

118

 

 

1994

109

2004

119

 

 

1995

110

2005

120

 

 

1996

111

2006

121

 

 

1997

112

2007

122

 

 

1998

113

2008

123

 

 

1999

114

2009

124

 

 

 

            This assumes, however, that the quality of baseball was better in 1945 than in 1935, which we all know is not true, and also it ignores expansion and various other issues.    So I modified this chart by making the following adjustments.

            First, for World War II—Minus 10 points for 1942, Minus 15 for 1943, Minus 20 for 1944, Minus 25 for 1945, Minus 10 for 1946.

            Second, for each expansion of two teams—Minus 10 points for the first year of the expansion, minus 9 for the second year, minus 8 for the third year, minus 7 for the fourth year, etc.—thus assuming that the effects of the expansion take ten years to wash out.   The 1961 season is -10; the 1962 season is -19, which is -10 for the 1961 expansion and -9 for the 1962 expansion.  We take away 20 points beginning in 1969, 10 points beginning in 1977, 10 points beginning in 1993, and 10 points beginning in 1998.

            For the same reason, as baseball expanded by four teams between 1899 and 1901, we take away 20 points beginning in 1901, but add 20 points to the 1900 season.

            Because of the dilution of talent by the Federal League (1914-1915) we will take away ten points from each of those seasons.

            Third, I took away 20 points from "damaged seasons", the damaged seasons being 1994, 1981, and 1918; I assume most of you will understand the reasons for this (although the adjustment is immaterial, since no teams from those seasons rank as all-time great teams anyway.)

            Fourth, I took away 5 points from each season 1915-1920 because of the scandals of that era.   Some players of that era were engaged in dishonest practices, not giving a full effort to win; fans were aware of this, it damaged the game, and I think it has to be taken into account in evaluating that era.

            Fifth, for the same reason, I took away 5 points from each season of the steroid era, dating the steroid era at 1992-2004.   This is not an easy call in my mind.   The other factors we have accounted for here impacted the quality of play.   Steroids didn’t make the quality of play worse in the majors; they made it better, or at least higher.   Players didn’t take steroids to make them play worse.  

            Still, the steroid era is perceived by most fans, I believe, as a damaged era.  If players cheated to be better, do we say that that was better?   I believe this issue may have been debated before, and we won’t go through that again, but. . .I’m discounting those seasons slightly.

            With those adjustments made, these, then, are the "strength of schedule" adjustments for each season in baseball history:

 

 

 

1880

0

1890

5

1900

35

 

 

1881

0

1891

6

1901

0

 

 

1882

0

1892

7

1902

0

 

 

1883

0

1893

8

1903

2

 

 

1884

0

1894

9

1904

5

 

 

1885

0

1895

10

1905

8

1876

0

1886

1

1896

11

1906

11

1877

0

1887

2

1897

12

1907

14

1878

0

1888

3

1898

13

1908

17

1879

0

1889

4

1899

14

1909

20

 

1910

23

1920

30

1930

45

1940

55

1911

26

1921

36

1931

46

1941

56

1912

27

1922

37

1932

47

1942

47

1913

28

1923

38

1933

48

1943

43

1914

19

1924

39

1934

49

1944

39

1915

15

1925

40

1935

50

1945

35

1916

26

1926

41

1936

51

1946

51

1917

27

1927

42

1937

52

1947

62

1918

8

1928

43

1938

53

1948

63

1919

29

1929

44

1939

54

1949

64

 

1950

65

1960

75

1970

64

1980

88

1951

66

1961

66

1971

69

1981

70

1952

67

1962

58

1972

73

1982

92

1953

68

1963

61

1973

76

1983

94

1954

69

1964

64

1974

79

1984

96

1955

70

1965

67

1975

82

1985

98

1956

71

1966

70

1976

85

1986

100

1957

72

1967

73

1977

78

1987

102

1958

73

1968

76

1978

82

1988

103

1959

74

1969

59

1979

86

1989

104

 

 

1990

105

2000

99

2010

125

1991

106

2001

102

 

 

1992

102

2002

105

 

 

1993

93

2003

108

 

 

1994

75

2004

110

 

 

1995

97

2005

117

 

 

1996

99

2006

119

 

 

1997

101

2007

121

 

 

1998

93

2008

123

 

 

1999

96

2009

124

 

 

 

            OK, those are the GT8 scores, the "Great Team Scores" for each season in baseball history.   These GT8 scores have an average for all teams in baseball history of 62.3, but a rather high standard deviation (37.2.   The significance of the category to the overall values depends on the standard deviation, not the average.)  When we add these to what we had before, it produces a very close contest for the position of being the greatest team in baseball history.

 

            Drum Roll, please. 

 

            (The list will be presented here tomorrow.)

 
 

COMMENTS (10 Comments, most recent shown first)

hotstatrat
Oh, and I forgot to add that I didn’t use runs for vs. runs against either except in the commentary. I think scoring runs is a much lesser goal than winning games and winning championships. Considering how good the players were in their career instead of merely how good they were that year would be nice to incorporate, but I don’t think I have the tools to timely apply your formula on that.
7:17 PM May 4th
 
hotstatrat
I’ve been working on something similar for over a year. I published parts of it on www.scoresheet.com, then took it off as it was taking too long for me to finish – and I wasn’t satisfied with what I had written so far. I am still only on 1993 working towards the present.

I use a somewhat similar method of accounting for the slope of time. However, it is given about equal importance as everything else and is about twice the slope. Everything else is just the season’s W-L record and the post season W-L x 2 – in wins minus losses. There are bonuses for repeat championships, but three year and five year runs don’t figure into it, except in the commentary. Two year teams have some cache as well. Where do you draw the line? I think teams tend to focus on a single year’s campaign, so that is what I focused on. Certainly, I don’t take the post season as seriously in my ratings as most people. Perhaps, I should rethink that, but it is the way I see it – and I have to stop thinking and finish producing at some point.

Yes, I do penalize for wars and expansion in a very similar fashion. But why penalize 1946 when all the players who weren’t wounded or dead were back and not 1951-1953 (Williams, Whitey, and Willie vs. North Korea)? However, I do not agree with penalizing for steroids. Penalizing for game fixing might have some merit, but I don’t know enough about it to feel qualified to do so. The 1919 Cincinnati Reds were one of the great teams of their era – why should they be dinged just because the White Sox handed them the World Series? I do agree that it was shameful that steroid taking was allowed thrive for as long as it did, but I don’t see that as having much to do with a team’s relative greatness – especially when the penalty is applied so indiscriminately. You penalize the ’92-’93 Blue Jays (John Olerud? Robbie Alomar? Devon White? I doubt it), yet the ’88-’90 Athletics (Canseco & McGwire) go unscathed.

So, thank you, for all the inspiration, Bill. I will be happy to fully share my conclusions and methodology with this community when I finish.

7:02 PM May 4th
 
glkanter
It's no secret where I stand on the automatic assumption of better baseball *teams* in the modern era versus long ago. I don't buy, and I explain, as much as anyone will listen anyways, *why* I don't buy it. That holds true for the 1 point per year unexplained and unsupported 'gift'.
6:19 PM May 4th
 
CharlesSaeger
The biggest difference in quality is that major league teams now almost always have the best players playing for them. Until the 1960s, you'd have top quality players playing in other leagues (most notably, the Negro Leagues and the Pacific Coast League). This would show up not as much in the stars but in the guys who plug the holes. Willie Bloomquist couldn't begin to carry Babe Ruth's jockstrap, but he is better than most of the guys playing regularily in 1920.

Next up would be accumulated knowledge, little things that you pass down. Major league teams had their own road blocks in dispersing this knowledge too, until 1893 or so when they stopped fiddling with the rules every year.
4:23 PM May 4th
 
CharlesSaeger
I'm not so sure that track-and-field and swim meet records can be used to support this. What they show is that athletes are better at running or swimming or jumping a specific distance (say, a hundred meters), not better overall. And indeed, distances and events are much more specialized than they once were; you don't have someone shifting from a hundred meter dash to a mile run and expecting his relative performance to stay.
4:14 PM May 4th
 
cderosa
One other thought regarding timeline: while the quality of play has increased, it may have been far easier to load up one or two rosters with the best players before the draft and when some clubs weren't trying that hard. Meaning some of those old weakish leagues may have been better breeding grounds for great teams than a more mature system.
3:47 PM May 4th
 
cderosa
Thanks, I love this stuff. I always like to think of the "greatest team ever" as a three-dimmensional problem, with "height" being how much you dominated in the year in question, "width" being how long you dominated around the target year, and "depth" being who you dominated, in terms of the quality of play and strength of schedule. I think you've got defensible coverage of all three dimmensions here, and I like how you managed to get all the factors on a common scale, and I think you dealt with the postseason issue pretty elegantly--but I hope your top ten has at least one odd ball club I've never thought much about before...
3:44 PM May 4th
 
MarisFan61
I love what you're doing on the "Time Line Adjustment" -- the great emphasis on it as well as the method. It's probably the hardest part of something like this and it seems often to be ignored or only inadequately taken into account -- not so much by SABR types but by 'regular people.'
3:21 PM May 4th
 
hankgillette
I agree with your assertion that the quality of play has increased over time; considering the progress made in track & field and swimming (where records can be measured objectively), it would be hard to dispute.

But before MLB started the draft, wasn't it easier for some teams to stockpile talent? A lot of players must have been drawn to signing with the Yankees (or further back, the Cubs) simply because these teams were successful.

I'm guessing that there were also significant differences in the quality of scouting in the first half of baseball history, as well as other innovations such as creating a farm system. I don't know if any of these would overcome the inexorable march of increased nutrition, medicine, and training, not to mention the greater pool of talent today, but might it be that the older teams were able to accumulate a greater concentration of talent than is possible today?
12:24 PM May 4th
 
CharlesSaeger
Well, going by the list above, we have the 1998 Yankees on top with 853 points, beating out the 1937 Yankees by 5 points.

Having said that, there are some other reasonable candidates for the top ten, pushing out the 1906 and 1908 Cubs and the 1944 Cardinals, and maybe Lefty Grove's A's (both of the two teams score at 812): the 1995 Braves, the 1989 A's, the 1975 Reds, the 1970 Orioles and one of Casey Stengel's Yankee teams.
11:08 AM May 4th
 
 
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