2012 BJOL Hall of Fame Ballot

November 30, 2011
 
For folks new to the site, we’ve been running a parallel Hall-of-Fame vote here at the BJOL for the last three seasons. We run it with the same rules that the annual BBWAA ballot has: you can vote for up to ten players, 75% of votes gets a player elected, and falling below 5% gets a player dropped from future ballots.
 
Please cast your ‘ballots’ in the comments section on this page. We can debate the pros and cons about each candidate over at the Reader’s Section. Anyone keen to argue the merits of their favorite candidates should feel free to post a thread over there.
 
Previous Voting Results, 2009-2011
 
We’ve elected eight players in three year: their names are highlighted in bold, along with their percentages of the vote:
 
2009
%
2010
%
2011
%
Rickey Henderson
100%
Roberto Alomar
93%
Jeff Bagwell
95%
Tim Raines
89%
Barry Larkin
90%
 
 
Bert Blyleven
86%
Mark McGwire
85%
 
 
Alan Trammell
76%
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Mark McGwire
64%
Edgar Martinez
50%
Edgar Martinez
73%
Andre Dawson
21%
Lee Smith
35%
Lee Smith
40%
Tommy John
18%
Dale Murphy
27%
Rafael Palmeiro
33%
Dale Murphy
17%
Andre Dawson
25%
Fred McGriff
25%
Lee Smith
14%
Fred McGriff
18%
Larry Walker
23%
Don Mattingly
10%
Dave Parker
15%
Jack Morris
22%
Jack Morris
10%
Don Mattingly
12%
Kevin Brown
22%
Jim Rice
6%
Jack Morris
10%
Andre Dawson
18%
Harold Baines
5%
Harold Baines
7%
Dale Murphy
15%
Dave Parker
5%
Kevin Appier
3%
Don Mattingly
12%
Jesse Orosco
3%
Andres Galarraga
3%
Jim Rice
10%
David Cone
2%
Robin Ventura
2%
 Dave Parker
7%
Mo Vaughn
2%
Ellis Burks
0%
John Olerud
5%
Jay Bell
0%
Pat Hentgen
0%
Harold Baines
2%
Ron Gant
0%
Mike Jackson
0%
John Franco
2%
Mark Grace
0%
Eric Karros
0%
Juan Gonzalez
0%
Dan Plesac
0%
Ray Lankford
0%
Tino Martinez
0%
Greg Vaughn
0%
Shane Reynolds
0%
Raul Mondesi
0%
Matt Williams
0%
David Segui
0%
Al Leiter
0%
Todd Zeile
0%
Carlos Baerga
0%
Bret Boone
0%
Marquis Grissom
0%
Lenny Harris
0%
Bobby Higginson
0%
Charles Johnson
0%
Kirk Reuters
0%
Benito Santiago
0%
B.J. Surhoff
0%
 
 
Last year, Jeff Bagwell was the only player elected by the BJOL readers, though Edgar Martinez came tantalizingly close to joining him, garnering a ‘yes’ on 73% of ballots casts.
 
It is important for new readers/voters to note: our ballot is different from the BBWAA ballot: once a player is elected by the BJOL Readers, that player is taken off future ballots, even if the actual Hall of Fame hasn’t elected him (see: Raines, Tim).
 
There has been talk of going backward…of retroactively voting on earlier ballots. It’s being considered, but I’d like to see this get some traction before we start working backwards.  
 
The 2012 BJOL HOF Ballot
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Larry Walker
67.3
308
23%
Edgar Martinez
67.2
305
73%
Rafael Palmeiro
66.0
394
33%
Kevin Brown
64.0
242
22%
Andre Dawson
57.0
340
18%
John Olerud
56.8
302
5%
Fred McGriff
50.5
326
25%
Bernie Williams
47.3
312
--
Dale Murphy
44.2
230
15%
Jim Rice
41.5
282
10%
Brad Radke
41.4
157
--
Don Mattingly
39.8
263
12%
Jack Morris
39.3
225
22%
 Dave Parker
37.8
327
7%
Tim Salmon
37.6
232
--
Brian Jordan
33.5
166
--
Lee Smith
29.7
198
40%
Javy Lopez
27.9
194
--
Bill Mueller
22.6
140
--
Jeromy Burnitz
17.6
165
--
Eric Young
17.0
162
--
Vinny Castilla
16.4
153
--
Phil Nevin
15.9
143
--
Ruben Sierra
13.6
222
--
Ter.Mulholland
10.3
114
--
Tony Womack
1.2
119
--
 
I’m going to run through the pros and cons about each candidate, descending by career WAR:  
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Larry Walker
67.3
308
23%
 
Pros: An elite right fielder (seven Gold Glove), who could hit for power (383 HR) and average (.313). Three-time batting champ. 1997 NL MVP (deserved it). Five-time All-Star. Never showed up on any reports about using steroids. Canadian, eh?
                              &nbs​p;    
Cons: Cooooors. Coors. Posted a .381/.462/.710 career line at Coors, which is the sort of bat-guano insane statistic that will make it hard to objectively judge Rockies players. Part of a generation of players difficult to judge objectively because of steroids. 
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Edgar Martinez
67.2
305
73%
 
Pros: Almost certainly the best DH in history, and one of the top-5 hitters of his era. Career slash-line of .318/.415/.518, with an OPS+ of 147. Seven-time All-Star, two-time batting champion. No links to steroids. Spent 18-year career with one team. Extremely generous/charitable…won the Roberto Clemente Award for his off-the-field contributions. And apparently the MLB’s annual award for ‘Best DH’ is named after him…I didn’t know that award existed.
 
Cons: The whole designated hitter thing, which Edgar Martinez is single-handedly responsible for instituting in 1973, even though he was ten years old. So hold it against him. Short-ish career, partially because the Mariners kept him in the minors until he was twenty-six (276 games in AAA, .450 on-base percentage).
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Rafael Palmeiro
66.0
394
33%
 
Pros: 3020 hits, 560 homers, 1865 RBI’s, .288 batting average…a batting line that is typically indicative of an inner-circle Hall-of-Famer. Received MVP votes during ten seasons. Received three Gold Gloves. Played on four All-Star teams. Had seasons of 47 homers, 43 homers (twice), 39 homers (three times), 38 homers (twice). Swapped places with Will Clark (twice, not counting college). Had a mutant turtle named after him.
 
Cons: Where to begin? Told Congress that he hadn’t taken steroids. Never. Period. Then tested positive for steroids. Has a career arc that sort of screams ‘steroid user’ (season-by-season homer totals, ages 35-38: 39, 47, 43, 38). Was a spokesperson for Viagra (not sure if this is a ‘con’ or a ‘pro’). One of his Gold Gloves was awarded when he was a designated hitter (1999: 28 games at first, 128 at DH).
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Kevin Brown
64.0
242
22%
 
Pros: Staggeringly high career WAR, which puts him among lofty pitchers like Carl Hubbell (63.6), Bob Feller (63.3), and Juan Marichal (62.7). A 211-144 W-L record, with a 3.28 ERA during a high-offense era. Six-time All-Star, two-time ERA leader.
 
Cons: Not the nicest guy ever. Name listed on the Mitchell Report, and there are numerous reports that he was using HGH and steroids. Kind of a jerk.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Andre Dawson
57.0
340
18%
 
Pros: In the actual Hall-of-Fame. 340 career Win Shares, which clears the 300 bar comfortably. Impressive 438 career homers, 314 stolen bases, eight Gold Gloves. Won the 1987 MVP (emphatically did not deserve it), and a Rookie-of-the-Year. Finished second in the MVP vote twice in the 1980’s. Eight-time All-Star. Has a great nickname.
 
Cons: Career on-base percentage of .323 is pretty low for a corner outfielder. Umm…that’s it.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
John Olerud
56.8
302
5%
 
Pros: Played at an MVP-level in 1993 and 1998 (WAR of 8.2 and 8.1), which is very good. One of the most underrated players of his era: has the same number of Win Shares as Larry Walker (308) and Edgar (305), but doesn’t get the same love from voters. Won batting title in 1993. Nice guy.
 
Cons: Career numbers aren’t impressive for a first baseman: 255 homers, 1230 RBI, .298 batting average, all tallied in a high-offense era. Was not generally perceived as a great player; got votes on just two MVP ballots, finishing 3rd and 12th.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Fred McGriff
50.5
326
25%
 
Pros: Legitimate slugger before the offensive surge of the early 1990’s. Impressive career numbers of 493 homers, 1550 RBI’s, 134 OPS+. Appeared on eight MVP ballots, led the league in homers twice. Great nickname. 300+ Win Shares, 50+ WAR.
 
Cons: We’ve had three first basemen listed: Raffy, Olerud, and McGriff. Here are their five best seasons by WAR:
Palmeiro
Olerud
McGriff
7.4
8.2
6.6
6.2
8.1
6.1
6.0
5.3
5.2
5.5
5.3
4.9
4.9
5.2
4.7
4.3
5.1
3.7
 
McGriff’s best seasons were never comparable to the best seasons of either Olerud or Raffy, at least according to WAR.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Bernie Williams
47.3
312
--
 
Pros: Good guitarist. Integral part of 12 playoff teams. Five-time All-Star and received votes on six MVP ballots. Won a batting title, had a career slash-line of .297/.381/.477, good for an OPS+ of 125. Won four Gold Gloves. Career Yankee. Contender for the title of third-best CF in Yankee history, with Earle Combs. 300+ career Win Shares.
 
Cons: Maybe not as great a centerfielder as people thoughts. Career batting line is a little underwhelming: 287 homers, 1366 runs scored, 1257 RBI in a high offense era, for a good baseball team.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Dale Murphy
44.2
230
15%
 
Pros: Two-time NL MVP, and one of the more famous players of the 1980’s. Five-time Gold Glove winner and a seven-time All-Star. Had an excellent peak (better that Bernie Williams) from 1980-1987. Led the majors in HR and RBI from 1981-1990. An upstanding player known for his charitable contributions.
 
Cons: Declined quickly, at the age of thirty-two. Benefited from playing the majority of his career in Atlanta, when that was a homer haven (away batting line: .250/.324/.444). Career Win Share total of just 230, which is unimpressive.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Jim Rice
41.5
282
10%
 
Pros: A member of the actual baseball Hall-of-Fame. One of the most feared sluggers of his era (whatever that means), Rice was a three-time HR champ who averaged a .298/30/113 line per 162 games played. Eight-time All-Star, appeared on eight MVP ballots (finished 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 13th, and 19th). Once broke his bat on a check-swing.
 
Cons: Was just a .277/.330/.459 hitter away from Fenway Park, which inflated his numbers dramatically. Wasn’t a bad defensive player, but didn’t walk a lot and wasn’t terrific on the bases. A poor man’s Gene Tenace, frankly.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Brad Radke
41.4
157
--
 
Pros: A really high career WAR (ahead of Lee Smith and Jack Morris). Usually finished in the top-ten in fewest walks per 9 innings pitched. Reliably effective pitcher.
 
Cons: Tended to give up a lot of dingers. Doesn’t rate nearly as well according to Win Shares.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Don Mattingly
39.8
263
12%
 
Pros: Donnie Baseball! Stole popcorn from a kid in the stands. Appeared on ‘The Simpsons.’ Probably the most popular player in baseball in the mid-1980’s. 1985 AL MVP, 1986 runner-up. Career batting average of .307. A nice guy, by all accounts.
 
Cons: Short career: 1785 games. Low career marks in WAR and Win Shares, and his peak was about six seasons, if we’re being really generous. Yankee.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Jack Morris
39.3
225
22%
 
Pros: 254 career wins, which is a lot. Three 20-win seasons and three other seasons that were close. Winningest pitcher of the 1980’s, and he pitched brilliantly in Game 7 of the 1991 World Series. Received Cy Young votes in seven seasons. A lot of people thought he was a Hall-of-Famer when he was active…he’s received a good deal of support from BBWAA voters.
 
Cons: High era (3.90). Was never really the best pitcher in the league, or particularly close to being the best in the league. Similar career to Mark Buehrle, actually: an innings eater who could anchor a rotation and keep a team in the game.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
 Dave Parker
37.8
327
7%
 
Pros: If we ranked these players by career Win Shares, Parker would be third, behind Palmeiro and Dawson and a tick ahead of Fred McGriff. He was a dynamic player in his youth: an excellent hitter with solid speed and a great throwing arm. Awesome nickname: Cobra. Wore a face guard for a little while.
 
Cons: Cocaine problems derailed his career significantly: 1980-1984, when he should’ve been padding his resume for Cooperstown, Parker was ineffectual, posting an OPS+ of just 106, after five excellent seasons when he’d averaged a 147 OPS+. He rates much lower by WAR than by Win Shares.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Tim Salmon
37.6
232
--
 
Pros: Sort of like J.D. Drew, without the baggage: a good hitter who helped his team. Rookie-of-the-Year in 1993, five 30+ homerun seasons. Has a fish named after him.
 
Cons: Never made an All-Star team and retired with 299 career homers. Probably not a Hall-of-Famer.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Brian Jordan
33.5
166
--
 
Pros: Excellent defensive player, good speed, some power. Was a defensive back for the Atlanta Falcons. Was an All-Star caliber player in 1995, 1996, and 1998. The third wheel of the Bo Jackson/Deion Sanders troika.   
 
Cons: Almost certainly not a Hall-of-Famer. Either Cooperstown or Canton.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Lee Smith
29.7
198
40%
 
Pros: For a time, the all-time leader in saves. A reliable closer who had eleven 30+ save seasons, Smith was the best of the generation of closers who transitioned to the one-inning usage pattern. A hard thrower who averages 8.7 strikeouts per 9 innings, Smith made seven All-Star teams, led the league in saves four times, and received CY and/or MVP votes during five seasons. Career 132 ERA+. Would be the second Lee Smith in the baseball Hall-of-Fame.
 
Cons: His career statistics (1289 IP, 132 ERA+) are not marginally different than the statistics of, say, John Franco (1246 IP, 138 ERA+), Jeff Reardon (1132 IP, 122 ERA+), Mike Marshall (1386 IP, 119 ERA+). His career statistics are the same as Kent Tekulve’s, except Tek pitched 150 more innings (1436 IP, 132 ERA+). Probably opens the door for Billy Wagner to get elected in 2024.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Javy Lopez
27.9
194
--
 
Pros: Had some big seasons, including a 2003 season during which he hit 43 homeruns in just 129 games. Had three seasons with a .300+ batting average, and two seasons of 100+ RBI.
 
Cons: Almost certainly not a Hall-of-Famer, unless we’re really generous to catchers.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Bill Mueller
22.6
140
--
 
Pros: 2003 batting champion; one of the most unlikely champs to win a batting title, as he was a career .286 hitter coming off a .262 season in 2002. A member of the 2004 Red Sox.
 
Cons: Almost certainly not a Hall-of-Famer. This applied for everyone else to come.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Jeromy Burnitz
17.6
165
--
 
Pros: A big, sluggardly hitter in a high offense era. Burnitz had six 30+ homeruns seasons over a seven-year stretch, and averaged an impressive 30 homers per 162 games played. A lone bright spot during the last years the Brewers were in the AL. Spelled his name wrong.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Eric Young
17.0
162
--
 
Pros: A speedy leadoff guy, one of the original Rockies. Young led the NL in stolen bases (and caught stealing) in 1996, and retired with 465 career swipes. Had more steals than strikeouts (465 to 462).
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Vinny Castilla
16.4
153
--
 
Pros: Like Young, a member of the inaugural Rockies team in 1993. Had three consecutive seasons of 40+ homers in 1996-1998, and hit 191 homers in the five seasons between 1995 and 1999. Came back for two more stints with the Rockies: had a career batting line of .333/.380/.609 in Coors.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Phil Nevin
15.9
143
--
 
Pros: Was an effective hitter during his prime, a fact masked partially by the fact that QualCom and Petco were terrific pitchers’ parks. Interesting tidbit from Wikipedia: Nevin was picked first overall by the Houston Astros in the 1992 draft. Hal Newhouser (I’m assuming the Hal Newhouser) wanted Houston to pick Derek Jeter, and quit his job when management went with Nevin.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Ruben Sierra
13.6
222
--
 
Pros: Was, for a while, one of the bright young stars of the game. Had an impressive season at Age-23, finishing second to Robin Yount in the MVP vote (the only time, incidentally, that a Rangers player has lost a close MVP vote). He never got better than that; he is one of those weird players who peaks at a young age, and spends what ought to be his best seasons drifting backwards. Once traded straight-up for Jose Canseco.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Ter. Mulholland
10.3
114
--
 
Pros: Had a long career of little note. Led the league in complete games in 1992, and was one of the better control pitchers of his day. Threw a no-hitter in 1990, and started the 1993 All-Star game, making him one of many quixotically chosen pitchers to start the All-Star game.
 
Name
Career WAR (b-r)
Career Win Shares
% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Tony Womack
1.2
119
--
 
Pros: Took a while to reach the majors, but when he did was one of the best base stealers in the game. Led the NL in steals for three consecutive seasons, 1997-1999. His batting lines look like they belong in the American Association. Beat the Yankees in 2001.
 
Cast your votes.
 
Dave Fleming is a writer living in Wellington, New Zealand. He welcomes questions, comments, and suggestions here and at dfleming1986@yahoo.com.
 
 

COMMENTS (81 Comments, most recent shown first)

Jlockwood
Murphy
Dawson
MaRtinez
11:43 PM Jun 23rd
 
Jlockwood
Regarding Andre Dawson. Got to love him. Great player. As a long time suffering cubs fan, I would love to see how his career stats compare to Ron Santo, one of my childhood idols, considering how long it took to elect "the Pizza Guy" to the hall.
Great and entertaining essay.
11:34 PM Jun 23rd
 
DaveFleming
My ballot:

Edgar
Walker
Dawson
Brown
Raffy
Olerud
McGriff
Bernie
Parker
Mattingly

Going ten this year, just because I can. Sad to leave off Dale Murphy.
10:51 PM Jan 4th
 
ibrosey
Edgar
Walker
Raffy
Andre
Donnie Baseball
12:33 AM Dec 31st
 
donmalcolm
First time voter, please consider taking over the tiny little castle in Lake Otsego as the home for your little instituion...

Here goes: basically everyone with 300+ WS, plus Kevin Brown and Lee Smith, because:

1) a large Hall is better;
2) Brown's curmudgeon-liness is an attribute that needs more representation;
3) Lee Smith is bigger than Bill and told me he'd sit on me if I didn't vote for himl
4) it's my ballot and I can fulminate if I want to (while agreeing with Bill that Joycean excesses should be avoided)

Larry Walker
Edgar Martinez
Rafael Palmeiro
Kevin Brown
Lee Smith
Andre Dawson
John Olerud
Fred McGriff
Dave Parker
Bernie Williams
9:32 AM Dec 28th
 
chuck
Dave,
I meant to have Bernie Williams on my ballot also.
1:57 AM Dec 28th
 
chuck
Murphy
Dawson
Edgar
K.Brown
Olerud
Walker
McGriff
1:43 AM Dec 28th
 
ChitownRon
Lee Smith
Jack Morris
Jim Rice
4:55 PM Dec 27th
 
meanmike0001
Dawson
Rice
Morris
1:27 PM Dec 27th
 
mferris106
Edgar Martinez, Rafael Palmeiro and Larry Walker.
3:57 PM Dec 21st
 
joedimino
I almost always vote for 10 in these types of elections with Y/N ballots.

Larry Walker
Edgar Martinez
Rafael Palmeiro
Andre Dawson
Kevin Brown
Bernie Williams
Lee Smith
John Olerud
Fred McGriff
Dave Parker

The last 3 are gift votes, I lean no but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I cannot believe David Cone drew almost literally no support. We are very close to electing him to the Hall of Merit.



9:26 PM Dec 14th
 
tigerlily
My BJOL 2012 HOF Ballot is as follows:

Edgar Martinez
Bernie Williams
Andre Dawson
8:36 PM Dec 12th
 
tiller88
I am not thrilled by any of the choices this year, but rather than turning in a ballot that is completely blank, I will grit my teeth and submit:

Rafael Palmeiro

5:56 PM Dec 11th
 
CWeaver
Edgar and Raffy.
7:43 PM Dec 9th
 
yorobert
edgar martinez
andre dawson
5:12 AM Dec 8th
 
BrianFleming
Palmerio – 500 HR, 3000 hits = HOF. All ten most comparable players are or will someday be in the HOF. Unless you can prove that Tony Gwynn (teammate of admitted user, Ken Caminiti in 1995) hit .394 at age 34, .368 at age 35, .353 at age 36 and .372 at age 37 without help of some PED’s then the argument for steroid use keeping Palmerio, Bonds, Clemens, out is ridiculous.

Dawson – His OBP is disappointing, but he was one hell of an outfielder, 2700 hits, 430 HR, 300+ SB, 8 Gold Gloves, a deserving member.

Dale Murphy – I know there are a lot of players better than Murphy not in the HOF, but I became a baseball fan in the 1980’s and growing up, I always saw him as a HOF’er. A class act, a deserving candidate. He may never get in, but he gets my vote.

Jack Morris – 254 career wins and some huge post season performances, see note about Murphy above, 1980’s are baseballs forgotten era.

Edgar Martinez – A superior hitter, his career OBP is higher than Stan Musial.

11:05 PM Dec 7th
 
metsfan17
I'm surprised there is this much support for these guys. Look at the guys we voted in before. Rickey, Raines, Bagwell, Alomar. All legit Hall of Famers. The guys on the current ballot were mostly very good ballplayers but are they really Hall of Famers. Did you really think, when you were watching Larry Walker or Fred McGriff or Lee Smith play that you were watching a Hall of Famer?
8:27 PM Dec 7th
 
Scott_Ross
Larry Walker, Edgar Martinez, Rafael Palmeiro (holding my nose on that last one)

6:03 PM Dec 7th
 
tkoegel
Dawson.
4:04 PM Dec 7th
 
dburba
Walker
Dawson
Lee Smith
3:28 PM Dec 7th
 
Philosopher
Larry Walker
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
11:21 AM Dec 7th
 
MattD1
Edgar Martinez
Rafael Palmeiro
Andre Dawson
John Olerud



3:26 PM Dec 6th
 
rlk123
Walker and Palmeiro.
1:43 PM Dec 6th
 
vidro9
Martinez
Walker
Murphy
7:36 PM Dec 5th
 
burtshulman
Edgar Martinez
Bernie Williams
Raphael Palmiero
Fred McGriff
Larry Walker
6:27 PM Dec 5th
 
llamanunts
Edgar Martinez
Larry Walker
Kevin Brown
Bernie Williams
4:03 PM Dec 5th
 
BringBackTriandos
I'm Canadian and while I'd support Walker for the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame I can't quite see him making it based on the exchange rate. Yeah, the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame standards are different. Neither can I see any of the others as legitimate Hall of Fame candidates. So I will cast my ballot without selection anyone. Sorry Larry.
3:56 PM Dec 4th
 
DaveFleming
Let's try doing that for February; a Retrospective HOF ballot, conducted over on the readers post section. I'll come up with a short list and post an article on the 1st of February. Will Clark will be on that.

We can move it back five years every year, and keep players who get above a certain percentage on it.
11:43 PM Dec 2nd
 
DaveFleming
Well...Will was on the 2006 HOF ballot, where he was dropped after not getting 5%. He hasn't been on any of our ballots, which started in 2009.

I suppose we should come up with a Veteran's Committee system for past years....

We could get a short list of possible candidates, say those players on the BBWAA ballots from 2000-2009 who haven't been reviewed. We could have a yes/no vote on, say, the reader's forum and anyone who passes 75% there gets in that way.

We couldn't call it a 'Veteran's Committee,' of course....we could call it a 'Retrospective Committee'.
11:41 PM Dec 2nd
 
ventboys
Dave, what is Will Clark's status for the purposes of this thread? I'm dying here...
11:16 PM Dec 2nd
 
chrisnickell
My votes:
Edgar Martinez
Dale Murphy
Jack Morris

Thanks,
Chris
3:28 PM Dec 2nd
 
chrisnickell
jimbok - thanks very much, I totally did not get that. Thanks again.
3:27 PM Dec 2nd
 
jimbok
chrisnickell - that's not a link, it's underlined to emphasize that you vote by commenting in this thread. Like so:
Andre Dawson
Larry Walker
Edgar Martinez

1:04 PM Dec 2nd
 
chrisnickell
Does the page link work for anyone else? I can't click through to the ballot.

Thanks,
Chris
12:18 PM Dec 2nd
 
Sinark
E. Martinez
Walker
Dawson
McGriff
B Williams
K Brown
Morris
Parker
12:08 PM Dec 2nd
 
MWeddell
Kevin Brown
Andre Dawson
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
11:17 AM Dec 2nd
 
Doodles
edgar - it took me a while to come around on him for cooperstown, but the man was a HOF hitter. had he played i nthe pre-dh era, they would have stashed him at to get that bat in the lineup, and thee woudl be no question about him as a HOFer.

morris - i know this violates sabermetric standards, but i watched his whole career and always felt he was a HOFer. 254 wins and the 7th game in 1991 does it for me.
11:57 PM Dec 1st
 
price499
Rafael Palmeiro, Jack Morris, and Dave Parker
10:45 PM Dec 1st
 
mvandermast
Thanks, Dave. I'm voting for Dawson, Martinez, McGriff, Olerud, and Walker.

Many players on the ballot also have Win Shares - Loss Shares data available. To find it, you can search Bill's articles on the site using "Hall of Fame Ballot" as a search phrase. This will lead you to all four parts of Bill's article on the 2011 Hall of Fame ballot. (For some reason, the search phrase "2011 Hall of Fame Ballot" doesn't work as well as it should, at least not for me.)
10:23 PM Dec 1st
 
louismatos
Rafael Palmeiro.

I think the hof should be reserved for legendary players, not guys
who had solid or very good careers. And Palmeiros a stretch considering the roids but he's the only guy with the right numbers.
10:02 PM Dec 1st
 
bokonin
I vote Walker, Martinez, Dawson. If I had a real HOF ballot I'd have seven guys on it; kudos to the Bill James voters for putting the most meritorious people in the darned hall already. :)
8:52 PM Dec 1st
 
hortonwho
Edgar Martinez.
Larry Walker.
Andre Dawson. (hard to forgive him for that sham MVP when Ozzie should have had one ... well, it's easy to forgive him, less so the voters)

8:10 PM Dec 1st
 
rcberlo
None of them.

6:01 PM Dec 1st
 
Wally_P
Edgar Martinez - Good news for David Ortiz.
Rafael Palmeiro - Steroids shmeroids.
Andre Dawson - 5-tool great (for long enough).
5:53 PM Dec 1st
 
russelfe
Larry Walker
Edgar Martinez
Rafael Palmeiro
Dave Parker
4:04 PM Dec 1st
 
lazer
Edgar Martinez
Rafael Palmeiro
Andre Dawson
Jim Rice

3:48 PM Dec 1st
 
rgregory1956
Only three this year from me: Andre Dawson, Fred McGriff and Lee Smith
2:14 PM Dec 1st
 
metsfan17
I disagree Dave but that's why sports is so much fun! What does Bill James think about Walker's candidacy? I would be very curious.
2:01 PM Dec 1st
 
Robinsong
I vote for Martinez, Walker, and Palmeiro. Dawson is close.
1:34 PM Dec 1st
 
DaveFleming
1997
.384/.460/.709 (Home, 20 HR)
.346/.443/.743 (Away, 29 HR)

Sure, Coors helped. But Walker was terrific hitter anyway. He was also good baserunner and an excellent defensive outfielder. I think he would've cleared the bar without Coors.
1:16 PM Dec 1st
 
metsfan17
Everybody is entitled to their opinion but you have to be kidding with Larry Walker. Here are some of his home/road splits in his greatest years.
1998
418/483/757
302/403/488

1999
461/531/879
286/375/519

2001
406/483/773
293/416/549
A very good ballplayer but his stats are ridiculously inflated by playing in Colorado
12:24 PM Dec 1st
 
Jack
Larry Walker
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff

- Jack
12:10 PM Dec 1st
 
bjjp2
McGriff and Palmeiro. Based on historical standards.
11:54 AM Dec 1st
 
DHM
1. Hawk
2. Palmeiro (ugh. numbers are there, even though he disgusts me)
3 and 4. Walker and Edgar; for me their "weaknesses" (coors and DH) offset each other, and their stats are so similar and so good that a vote for one is a vote for both. And I like them.

"Dawson looked like he was going to hit the ball through the pitcher's face." Ha! Best description I've ever heard!

11:49 AM Dec 1st
 
agcohen
Larry Walker
Edgar Martinez
Rafael Palmeiro
John Olerud
Fred McGriff
Lee Smith
10:34 AM Dec 1st
 
bearbyz
My picks are:

Edgar Martinez
Raf Palmeiro
Fred McGriff

10:21 AM Dec 1st
 
rtayatay
I vote for no one this time around.
9:08 AM Dec 1st
 
jimgus
My ballot is:

Dawson
Martinez
Walker
Kevin Brown
The Crime Dog

I have some ramblings over on the reader post page, if you care to read them.

Jimgus
8:50 AM Dec 1st
 
Chihuahua332
Walker - Coors helped but there is substance behind those numbers.

Martinez - How many weak fielding hitters are in the Hall? If it is so easy to be a DH then how did Edgar separate himself to such an extreme degree?

Palmeiro - The career numbers are huge. Regarding the PEDs, while he certainly should not have used them, the league and everyone else was turning a blind eye for years. MLB made this bed and the league needs to sleep in it.

Dawson - I have a soft spot for The Hawk. Some hitters look like they are going to hit a home run when they step into the batter's box. Dawson looked like he was going to hit the ball through the pitcher's face.

Rice - Great player

Morris - You are doing something right when you have the most wins in a decade.
7:23 AM Dec 1st
 
cderosa
1 Dave Parker
2 Raffy Palmeiro
3 Dale Murphy
4 Bernie Williams
5 Andre Dawson
6 Fred McGriff
7 Edgar Martinez

Rationale: the guys who would be on my 2012 BBWAA ballot, minus the guys who are already passed the BJOL muster, plus Dawson, who would be one of my top ten candidates were he not in the HoF already.
Plus Edgar the Hammer. I rank Edgar Martinez as the 11th most valuable eligible player not in the HoF, but it's close and I am nagged by the fact that I'd rather to pitch to any of these guys than him. I have the ballot space in this exercise and I prefer to err on Edgar's side.
The essential ranking indicators for me are the career win shares, the win shares over the player's best three-year stretch, with bonus points for playing crucial roles on winning teams, in pennant races, and in postseasons.
Thanks for polling us!
6:43 AM Dec 1st
 
sprox
Here is my vote

Larry Walker, Edgar Martinez, Rafael Palmeiro, Kevin Brown, Fred McGriff, Bernie Williams

thanks for the opportunity

cheers

Sprox
5:06 AM Dec 1st
 
jalbright
Walker
E. Martinez
Dawson

4:37 AM Dec 1st
 
OwenH
I vote for Edgar, Larry Walker, Kevin Brown, Palmeiro, and Dawson ...in my mind the only five really qualified HoFers here. Edgar for pure hitting awesomeness (the DH is part of the game, and he was a HoF-caliber DH); Walker for his brilliant all-around game (even if you Coors-deflate his stats); Brown, a tremendously underrated pitcher with real quality over many seasons; Palmeiro, even roids-adjusted, in my mind still makes the bar for longevity and production; and Dawson for all-around game despite low OBP -- he was one of the very best players of the early 80s, played a good CF in a relatively low offense era.

Lee Smith, McGriff, BernieW, Dave Parker, Olerud, Don Mattingly and Will Clark fall just short.
2:14 AM Dec 1st
 
taosjohn
Palmeiro
Dawson
Lee Smith
1:00 AM Dec 1st
 
evanecurb
Oh we already selected McGwire. Add John Olerud.
12:41 AM Dec 1st
 
evanecurb
Edgar Martinez
Larry Walker
Kevin Brown
Raphael Palmeiro
Mark McGwire
Bernie Williams
Dale Murphy
Don Mattingly
Lee Smith
Fred McGriff
12:41 AM Dec 1st
 
DaveFleming
Probably good to keep it to ten players. I suppose that the voting will close whenever the real HOF voting is announced, which is on January 9th. Let's say that voting ends on January 8th.
12:25 AM Dec 1st
 
mvandermast
Two quick questions:

1) Is 10 the maximum number of players we can vote for, as with the real HoF ballot?

2) What's our deadline?

Thanks.
10:51 PM Nov 30th
 
ventboys
Will Clark isn't eligible? If he is, I would vote for him too.
10:46 PM Nov 30th
 
ventboys
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Andre Dawson
Dale Murphy

10:45 PM Nov 30th
 
peterunger
I know less about baseball than anyone else posting - But I know about baseline statistical effects and the timeline in sports.

Anyone with numbers clearly above one-fourth of HOFs at his position Probably should be in the Hall.

It is NOT just for Willie Mays and, more recently, Rickey Henderson - and Tim Baines, too.

I can't make any sense of Coors, so I wait on Larry Walker.


but steroids have been part of the game for well over a decade.

That said, I vote for Edgar, Raffy, Kevin, Andre, John and Fred.

And even THAT is stingy.

As far as I can tell, I am just following Bill's take in THE POLITICS OF GLORY.

But, I am open-minded, and well really I could be too be to liberal - though I doubt it.

What, if anything, am I missing?

Disclosure: A native New Yorker soon to be 70, I gave up when my beloved Dodgers left NYC - along with the Giants - taking baseball to be mostly a business. but, Bill is one of my favorite writers, in ANY genre, so I read almost everything he writes. GODDDD can that boy write!!
10:02 PM Nov 30th
 
bobburpee
Edgar, K. Brown, D. Murphy
9:26 PM Nov 30th
 
DaveFleming
Blank ballots are, of course, very welcome. They'll be counted.
9:08 PM Nov 30th
 
chill
Edgar, Larry Walker, Olerud. Can I vote for Edgar twice?

I have a soft spot for Lee Smith, but this year I'm leaving him off on the theory that even great relief pitchers are overvalued already.​
8:59 PM Nov 30th
 
TLivingston
I vote for Edgar Martinez and Kevin Brown.
8:50 PM Nov 30th
 
markomachine
Yes on Edgar Martinez, Andre Dawson, Fred McGriff, and
Dale Murphy.
8:21 PM Nov 30th
 
tigerlily
I might vote for one or two of these guys, but then again I may not. If someone decides that none of these players are worthy, can they submit a blank ballot?
7:52 PM Nov 30th
 
Marinerfan1986
L. Walker, E. Martinez, J. Olerud. All marginel HOF but they have a lot worse in the HOF.
6:26 PM Nov 30th
 
metsfan17
Actually, you've convinced me on Kevin Brown. He was, for a fairly long time as unhittable as anybody. I'll go with Brown but nobody else.
6:17 PM Nov 30th
 
PeteDecour
I vote for Edgar Martinez, Lee Smith, Andre Dawson, Raf Palmeiro, Fred McGriff
6:10 PM Nov 30th
 
metsfan17
I hate to say it but while there are many very good ballplayers on the list, I just don't see any of them as Hall of Famers. In the past, I voted for Rickey, Raines, Blyleven, Larkin, Bagwell and Alomar. I think Morris, Brown and Bernie are close but I just don't think they're Hall of Famers. Walker was a creation of Coors Field, Edgar was a DH, Palmeiro was a creation of steriods, Murphy fizzled out so fast. So many very good players but just not quite on the level of the guys we have already voted in.
6:04 PM Nov 30th
 
 
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