2015 BJOL HOF Ballot

By Dave Fleming

November 25, 2014

Welcome to our annual BJOL Hall-of-Fame vote.

This is a vote that we’ve been conducting in parallel to the BBWAA vote. Part of our intention, in starting this, was to focus to our annual debate on players we wanted to talk about. If the BBWAA wants to spend a few years deciding on the candidacies of players like Mike Piazza and Jeff Bagwell and Tim Raines and Alan Trammell and Mike Mussina, let ‘em. We’d rather argue about Lou Whitaker and Larry Walker and Edgar Martinez and Kenny Lofton.

And part of our intention – the biggest part - was to have some fun. It’s fun to vote, even if it doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of the universe. It’s fun to see, too, where our community differs from the BBWAA voters.

Our ballot is slightly different than the BBWAA ballot: in the seven years we’ve been running this thing we’ve elected a lot of players that the BBWAA is still deciding on. And the BBWAA has elected a couple guys we’re still deciding on. Here’s a table:

Elected by BJOL	Elected by Both	Elected by BBWAA
Tim Raines	Rickey Henderson	Jim Rice
Alan Trammell	Bert Blyleven	Andre Dawson
Mark McGwire	Roberto Alomar
Jeff Bagwell	Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez	Greg Maddux
Craig Biggio	Frank Thomas
Mike Piazza	Tom Glavine
Barry Bonds
Mike Mussina
Lou Whittaker

One of the by-products of our willingness to elect players with some expedience is that we have a much more manageable ballot than the BBWAA voters have. Really…go look at their ballot and try to decide which ten players you’re going to vote for. It’s tough. I feel bad for the BBWAA voters.

Our ballot is so manageable that we’ve been able to add write-in candidates: each year, voters are encouraged to cast a write-in vote for any former player, provided they are a) not in the actual HOF, and b) not on the current BBWAA ballot. In 2013 the BJOL voters picked Lou Whittaker as our inaugural write-in candidate. He was elected in 2014, joining his double-play partner Alan Trammell in our alternative Hall. Last year’s winner of the write-in was Dwight Evans: he makes his first appearance on our ballot this year.

The rules are the same as the BBWAA: voters can pick ten players. You should also write-in whatever unrecognized player you’d like to see on next year’s ballot. The player with the most votes will be added to our 2016 ballot.

Votes should be posted in the comments section below. We’ll close the voting and announce this year’s elected players the same day the BBWAA announces their selections. And be sure to remember to include your write-in nominee.

Here’s our ballot:

Name	Career rWAR	Career Win Shares	% of Prev. BJOL Vote
Randy Johnson	102.1	326	- -
Pedro Martinez	84.0	256	- -
Curt Schilling	76.1	252	74%
John Smoltz	69.5	289	- -
Larry Walker	67.3	308	55%
Dwight Evans	66.9	323	- -
Rafael Palmeiro	66.0	394	46%
Kenny Lofton	64.9	287	26%
Kevin Brown	64.0	242	21%
Gary Sheffield	60.2	430	- -
Andre Dawson	57.0	340	44%
Jeff Kent	55.2	339	33%
Sammy Sosa	54.8	321	32%
Brian Giles	50.9	287	- -
Fred McGriff	50.5	326	29%
Bernie Williams	47.3	312	14%
Carlos Delgado	44.3	303	- -
Dale Murphy	44.2	230	14%
N. Garciaparra	44.2	219	- -
Tom Gordon	35.3	179	- -
Darin Erstad	32.3	161	- -
Lee Smith	29.7	198	8%
Jason Schmidt	29.6	120	- -
Cliff Floyd	25.9	191	- -
Jermaine Dye	20.3	175	- -
Rich Aurilia	18.1	177	- -
Troy Percival	17.5	125	- -
Eddie Guardado	13.7	100	- -
Aaron Boone	13.5	111	- -
Tony Clark	12.5	128	- -

Good luck with your ballots!

* * *

Our ballot is (mercifully) less crowded than the BBWAA ballot. But it’s still a very crowded ballot: just looking it over with a cursory glance, I can find at least seventeen players I’d consider voting for. That’s a lot of players. I like to break the ballot down into manageable segments to help make the list easier to hold in my mind. Feel free to skip this.

The Two Players the BBWAA Will Almost Certainly Elect

Name	rWAR	Win Shares	Notes
R. Johnson	102.1	326	300+ wins, five CY Awards, 4875 strikeouts. Pretty tall.
P. Martinez	84.0	256	More Koufaxian than Sandy Koufax. Not so tall.

If the BBWAA doesn’t elect Pedro and Randy, the system is broke. What’s incredible is that there’s a reasonable argument that both men are:

1) Among the ten best pitchers of all-time, and

2) Only the third- and fourth-best pitchers of their generation.

With Clemens and Maddux as rivals, it’s a little difficult to parse out who the best of the lot is. While peak Pedro Martinez performed at a level unmatched in baseball’s long history, he’s well behind Clemens, Maddux, and Johnson in career value. Anyway, I love both of these players, and hope they’re elected this year.

Two Really Good Pitches Who Are Obviously Comparable,

And Another Guy Who Was Ignored by the BBWAA

Name	rWAR	Win Shares	Notes
Curt Schilling	76.1	252	Statistical record shows some evolution in his career.
John Smoltz	69.5	289	Third wheel in the Braves' troika of HOF-level pitchers.
Kevin Brown	64.0	242	Not too popular. Great pitcher.

Win Shares is much less generous to pitchers than WAR is…if I am a little reluctant to trust WAR’s evaluation of catchers, I am equally skeptical about how much Win Shares seems to favor hitters. I don’t see how Rafael Palmeiro can have more Win Shares than Randy Johnson, or how Bernie Williams has more Win Shares than Pedro Martinez. If I had more time I’d look for the Win- and Loss-Shares of these players. Sigh.

Two Outfielders Who Have a Lot In Common

Name	rWAR	Win Shares	Notes
Larry Walker	67.3	308	Strong-armed power hitter aided by home park.
Dwight Evans	66.9	323	Ditto.

We have two Gold Glove right-fielders with excellent throwing arms, who sort of blossomed into power hitters a little late in their careers. Both led the league in homers once, Evans at 29, Walker at 30. Both men played in home parks that aided their counting stats, though Walker gets more knocks for this than Evans does. Both men have first names and last names that are common first names….you can combine their last names to get yourself an iconic American photographer. I’ll write a bit more about Evans in another post. And by ‘a bit’ I mean ‘more words than you could ever be bothered to read.’

Three 1B’s Who Mashed Taters

Name	rWAR	Win Shares	Notes
Fred McGriff	50.5	326	Hit a lot of homeruns before everyone else was.
Raf. Palmeiro	66.0	394	Hit a lot of homeruns after everyone else was.
C. Delgado	44.3	303	Delgado' means 'thin' in Spanish.

Trying to figure out what 1B from the 1990’s belong in the Hall of Fame is exhausting. I’m reasonably persuaded by McGriff, who suffers by comparison to the generation that immediately followed him. I am a big fan of Carlos Delgado, though I don’t know that he’d a Hall-of-Fame level player.

Some More Outfielders Who Have a Case

Name	rWAR	Win Shares	Notes
Kenny Lofton	64.9	287	The 90's version of Tim Raines.
G. Sheffield	60.2	430	The scariest hitter I have ever seen.
Sammy Sosa	54.8	321	Hit 60+ homers a bunch of times. Not a big deal.
Brian Giles	50.9	287	Underrated hitter: .291/.400/.502 slash-line.
Ber. Williams	47.3	312	Keystone for the last great Yankee dynasty.

I would really like it if someone looked into Lofton and Sheffield really closely and figured out what the hell is going on with their metrics. According to Win Shares, Gary Sheffield is a Really Great Baseball Player, while Lofton is a few ticks below Carlos Delgado. According to WAR, Lofton is slightly ahead of Sheffield. There’s something to be written about the disconnect between those two…if I have the time (and if none of you beats me to it), I’ll try to get back to it.

At least by these metrics, there isn’t a big gap between Sammy Sosa and Brian Giles. Just saying.

Two Icons of the 1980’s

Name	rWAR	Win Shares	Notes
AndreDawson	57.0	340	Like ~~Joe DiMaggio~~ Carlos Beltran until his knees went.
Dale Murphy	44.2	230	Two-time MVP whose career declined quickly. Nice guy.

Two of the most coveted cards when I started collecting. Dale Murphy is interesting: he might be the player not in the Hall whom almost everyone thought was going in. I don’t think there was an article written in the 1980’s about active players and the Hall that didn’t have Murphy as a near shoo-in. Now he’s off the ballot.

His son wrote a letter complaining about how stat-heads ruined his dad’s chances of making the Hall, so I’ll note that Murphy is still on our ballot, and we’re as stat-heavy a community as they come. Murphy has routinely done better among our voters than the BBWAA voters.

The Middle Infielders

Name	rWAR	Win Shares	Notes
Jeff Kent	55.2	339	Power-hitting 2B who feuded with Bonds.
N.Garciaparra	44.2	219	Once jumped into Boston Harbor to save two women.

I cut the vowels out of Nomar’s last name, to make it fit into the box score. There’s probably not a case to be made for Nomar in the Hall, but I’d be grateful if someone tried to make it. One of my all-time favorite players, and a key cog on my all-time favorite team (The ’99 Red Sox). And he really did jump into the harbor to save those women.

Jeff Kent, on the other hand, probably deserves serious support, but he seems the kind of player that voters are ambivalent about. I don’t know why that’s the case, but he’s almost never mentioned as a serious candidate.

Those Pesky Closers

Name	rWAR	Win Shares	Notes
Lee Smith	29.7	198	One-time holder of the save's record.
Tom Gordon	35.3	179	Stephen King wrote a book about him and a bear.

Lee Smith wasn’t on the ballot last year, despite crossing the 5% threshold from the season before. It wasn’t personal: I just got my list confused. We’ve added him back this year. Tom Gordon isn’t a real candidate, but I didn’t want Lee to be lonely. Both men were fine closers at their peak.

The Other Candidates

Name	rWAR	Win Shares
Darin Erstad	32.3	161
J. Schmidt	29.6	120
Cliff Floyd	25.9	191
Jerm. Dye	20.3	175
Rich Aurilia	18.1	177
Troy Percival	17.5	125
E. Guardado	13.7	100
Aaron Boone	13.5	111
Tony Clark	12.5	128

I’m too lazy to write notes for these guys, though some of them deserve remembering. I will note that Aaron Boone can go straight to hell.

Dave Fleming is a writer living in Wellington, New Zealand. He welcomes comments, questions, and suggestions here and at dfleming1986@yahoo.com.

COMMENTS (118 Comments, most recent shown first)

DaveFleming
My ballot:
Randy
Pedro
Schilling
Smoltz
Walker
DEWEY!
Lofton
Sheffield
Dawson
NOMAH!

Had to vote for Garciaparra: my favorite player since Dewey.
10:32 PM Dec 26th

DaveFleming
I'd like to think that ex-players like Eddie Guardado and Rich Aurulia would become BJOL members just to have the chance to vote for themselves. It's only $3 bucks, guys.

Heck....get enough of your friends to join, and you can probably hang on the ballot for a few years.

We'll close the voting in a day or two. Happy holidays, everyone.
10:28 PM Dec 26th

mrvino
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Gary Sheffield
Jeff Kent
Fred McGriff
John Smoltz
Andre Dawson
Rafael Palmero
Dwight Evans
Bernie Williams
Write-in: Will Clark
(Have to love the Thrill, who never lost the ability to play, but left the game to take care of his kids)
3:37 AM Dec 20th

FreeKresge
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Larry Walker

2:43 PM Dec 18th

MattD1
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Dwight Evans
Rafael Palmeiro
Gary Sheffield
Sammy Sosa
Andre Dawson

Write In: Bobby Grich

4:14 PM Dec 14th

EdgarFan
I believe this is my third BJOL HOF vote. I have no idea whether I am all that consistent, but I hope so. If I'm not, it is probably about guys like Fred McGriff, who I think is about as close to the borderline as any player ever has been. I feel the same about Kenny Lofton, and to a lesser extent Jeff Kent (he's probably a nudge over the line for me). I also struggle with guys like Palmeiro and Sosa, whose numbers are certainly Hall of Fame worthy, but I doubt (even though I am not all THAT bothered by PED use) would have put up HOF-worthy numbers but for their PED use. I am open to reconsidering those guys when the ballot is less crowded, though. Anyway, in no particular order:

Randy Johnson (Duh)
Pedro Martinez (Double Duh)
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
Dwight Evans
Kenny Lofton
Gary Sheffield
Jeff Kent
Fred McGriff

And my write-in would be Bobby Grich.
2:04 PM Dec 10th

Scott_Ross
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
Bobby Grich
John Smoltz
Gary Sheffield

9:11 PM Dec 9th

Sparky133
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
Kevin Brown
Gary Sheffield
Jeff Kent
Fred McGriff
Rafael Palmeiro

9:58 AM Dec 9th

KaiserD2
I vote for Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, Curt Schilling, and Larry Walker. None of the other candidates had enough peak value to make them obvious HOFers. These ones do. (As it turns out, incidentally, the great pitchers of Gen X, on the whole, had far more impact on their team's fortunes than the greatest hitters, with only a few exceptions--Bonds, Pujols, and ARod.)

DK
12:12 PM Dec 6th

Michael
My criteria:
1) OVER 84 WAR
2) over 50 WAR AND 300 WIN SHARES

TOP TEN

JOHNSON
PEDRO
WALKER
EVANS
PALIMERO
SHEFFIELD
DAWSON
KENT
SOSA
MCGRIFF
2:13 AM Dec 6th

jimmybart
1. Randy Johnson
2. Pedro Martinez
3. Curt Schilling
4. John Smoltz
5. Larry Walker
6. Dwight Evans
7. Sammy Sosa
8. Andre Dawson
9. Jeff Kent

Write-in: Minnie Minoso
4:03 PM Dec 5th

MarisFan61
....and make mine MINNIE MINOSO (if he's not already in).
12:32 PM Dec 5th

chuck
Forgot to add write-in: Bobby Grich
12:44 AM Dec 5th

chuck
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
Larry Walker
Kenny Lofton
Andre Dawson
Kevin Brown
Dwight Evans
John Smoltz
Gary Sheffield

12:44 AM Dec 5th

deberly
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
John Smoltz
Curt Schilling
Andre Dawson
Gary Sheffield

Write in: Dave Concepcion

3:08 PM Dec 4th

sweaver64
This ballot is far more manageable than the hole the BBWAA has dug for itself. It's so deep Buster Olney has announced he's not voting this year. Out of this group, I would take:
R. Johnson
P. Martinez
C. Schilling
J. Smoltz
D. Evans
K. Lofton
K. Brown
G. Sheffield
J. Kent
F. McGriff
11:41 AM Dec 4th

LansdowneSt
1. Pedro Martinez
2. Randy Johnson
3. Curt Schilling
4. John Smoltz
5. Dwight Evans
6. Larry Walker
7. Andre Dawson

Write In: Bobby Gritch
11:15 PM Dec 3rd

peterunger
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Kevin Brown
Gary Sheffield
Larry Walker
Dwight Evans
Rafael Palmeiro
Kenny Lofton

Write-in: Minnie Minoso
9:03 PM Dec 3rd

JimPertierra
Dave,
Pleasure to cast a ballot again

1. Randy Johnson
2. Pedro Martinez
3. John Smoltz
4. Gary Sheffield
5. Curt Schilling

Past them it is a lot of near misses although I love the write in for Bobby Grich. Guy never got his due!!
Best/Jim
2:38 PM Dec 3rd

Chihuahua332
Randy Johnson
Pedro
Smoltz
Dewey
Dawson
Larry Walker
6:37 PM Dec 2nd

hdhartig
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
Dwight Evans
Kenny Lofton
Kevin Brown
Gary Sheffield
Fred McGriff
Carlos Delgado
Dale Murphy

Write-in: Bobby Grich

12:39 PM Dec 2nd

jimgus
I confess to being a bonehead and leaving off Gary Sheffield (I thought I had included him when I wrote the McGriff comment). So, Sheffield is my tenth guy. Meanwhile, sorry about all the spaces. :-(

Cordially,
JimmyG
9:53 AM Dec 2nd

jimgus
Am I too late to get in? I hope not...

In no particular order:

Randy Johnson - Duh

Pedro Martinez - ditto

Fred McGriff - This guy was a scary in the batter's box as Gary Sheffield. Plus, he single-handedly beat the giants in '93.

Curt Schilling - He's kind of a tough selection, but I'm an inclusionist so I'll say, "Yes."

Dwight Evans - I think I included him as my write-in last year, so I'd better vote for him, eh? :-)

John Smoltz - He should have been the winner of the greatest game ever.

Andre Dawson - Part of the reason this is fun is because he is in the "real" hall, but not in ours. Oh yeah, I'd vote for him regardless.

Kenny Lofton - Kind of a forgotten GREAT player

Kevin Brown - Kind of a forgotten GREAT pitcher

no tenth guy.

Write-in: Now batting, number 22, first baseman, Wiiiiiillllllllll CLARK!

Cordially,
JimmyG
9:48 AM Dec 2nd

bjbrown
1. Pedro Martinez
2. Randy Johnson
Write in: PeteRose
11:06 PM Dec 1st

kseesar1
1. Randy Johnson
2. Pedro Martinez
3. Curt Schilling
4. John Smoltz
5. Larry Walker
6. Dwight Evans
7. Gary Sheffield
8. Brian Giles
9. Fred McGriff
10. Bernie Williams

Write-in: Bobby Grich

I just can't get myself to vote for either Palmeiro or Sosa. I know they put up HOF numbers, but I know a couple of folks who knew Palmeiro and they both felt he was an absolutely vile human being. Sosa I just can't bring myself to vote for, even though he was a terrific player.

1:55 PM Dec 1st

llozada
1. Randy
2. Pedro
3. Curt Schilling
4. John Smoltz
5. Larry Walker
6. Dwight Evans
7. Kenny Lofton
8. Gary Sheffield
9. Jeff Kent
10. Fred McGriff

Write in: David Concepcion
1:03 PM Dec 1st

Detroiter
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz

Write-in: Bobby Grich
12:50 PM Dec 1st

tigerlily
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Bernie Williams
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Andre Dawson
Dale Murphy
11:02 AM Dec 1st

paulc
Here is my HOF ballot:
1 R. Johnson
2 P Martinez
3 C Schilling
4 J Smoltz
5 Dewey Evans
6 J Kent
7 F McGriff
8. L Walker
9. B Williams
10. A. Dawson

write in addition: B. Grich

How about establishing a separate Old Timers classification & ballot for those NOT in Cooperstown or on the current ballot? We could vote in nominees using a weighted system like the MVP with a #1 choice getting 10 points and a #10 1 point? We could create an Old Timers ballot of say 10 in January and vote in February?
It seems silly to not be voting on players like Darrel Evans.
9:40 AM Dec 1st

MarisFan61
@ Steve161: I don't think we disagree at all on Simmons. I know that this still doesn't necessarily mean you'll agree with that whole thing that I said, but.....

What I said didn't rely on their both being "butchers" in the field (which BTW I don't think Kent was either), nor on Simmons being as bad (or un-good) in the field as Kent. I realize that it might have been unclear, because of the unclarity of the phrase "not real good," but what I meant was that unless a player at a key defensive position was regarded as being at least quite good at the position, in the minds of most people it almost doesn't count that he played the position (regarding their concept of "greatness" of "Hall of Fame worthiness"). I do think we see this pretty similarly, although we might draw the fielding line in somewhat different places. I draw it at a place that higher than average; I think the guy has to have been seen as at least distinctly above average in the field, or else he's regarded pretty much as though he were a first baseman or corner outfielder
7:22 PM Nov 30th

Mycropht
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
Dwight Evans
Rafael Palmeiro
Gary Sheffield
Jeff Kent
Brian Giles

Write-in: Will Clark

7:14 PM Nov 30th

thegue
R. Johnson
P. Martinez
C. Schilling
J. Kent
J. Smoltz
6:01 PM Nov 30th

russelfe
Randy J
Pedro
Larry Walker
Dwight Evans
Rafael Palmeiro
Jeff Kent
John Smoltz

Writ-in: Grich
4:49 PM Nov 30th

steve161
I'm in complete agreement with MarisFan61 on Jeff Kent, but I don't buy the comparison with Ted Simmons. Kent was a butcher at 2B, while Simmons, as I remember him, was an adequate major league catcher--comparable perhaps to Mike Piazza, whose defense was underrated because its only visible aspect was his poor throwing. Offhand I don't recall where Simmons' defensive rep came from.
2:26 PM Nov 30th

tkoegel
Thanks for running this again, Dave.

Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Andre Dawson

Write in: Will Clark
12:39 PM Nov 30th

MarisFan61
(Right -- but the confusion is because his name is omitted up above, in the "Elected by BJOL" listing.)
1:47 PM Nov 29th

DaveFleming
To Sayhey: Clemens has already been voted in by the BJOL voters. Same with Bonds .
12:56 PM Nov 29th

MarisFan61
Re Jeff Kent: Dave, you say that you don't get why he's not a more serious candidate. I have no trouble at all seeing it.....and perhaps this is a thing on which oddly I have an advantage because of not being as tilted toward sabermetrics as most here. (Some doubt that I'm into it at all; I assure you that compared to most human beings, I'm tilted toward it.) :-)

Assuming my notion on this is correct, it's what I'd call the "Value Trap." In most sabermetrics it seems to be so much assumed that "greatness" or "Hall of Fame worthiness" (as well as just about anything else) is synonymous with 'amount of value,' that it is perhaps unfathomable that it could be seen any differently.

It's exactly the same thing as why Ted Simmons was never a serious HOF candidate. The way most people (as opposed to most sabermetric types) look at players like Simmons and Kent, when it comes to something like "greatness" or "HOF worthiness," is that while they played key defensive positions, they weren't real good at them -- and so they don't get any 'credit' for that, at all. Their defense and their defensive positions are virtually zeroes, and the question rests almost entirely on their offense, which then gets viewed just about as though they were first basemen or corner outfielders.

I assume that this will seem head-scratchingly nuts to many people here. But then again, stuff equating HOF-worthiness to calculated "value" is pretty head-scratching to me; it escapes me that people could think "greatness" is such a simple arithmetical thing.
12:42 PM Nov 29th

izzy24
1. Pedro Martinez
2. Randy Johnson
3. Gary Sheffield
4. Curt Schilling
5. Larry Walker
6. John Smoltz
7. Jeff Kent
8. Dwight Evans

(I have Dawson, McGriff, and Lofton as really close and I still can't bring myself to vote for Palmeiro)

Write in: Bobby Grich
9:29 AM Nov 29th

sayhey
Johnson
Martinez
Schilling
Smoltz
Walker
Palmeiro
Kent

I'm sure this has been answered before, but where is Clemens? I don't see him on the ballot, or in the list of names already inducted.
7:10 AM Nov 29th

waisanhart
R Johnson
P Martinez
C Schilling
J Smoltz
D Evans
G Sheffield
F McGriff
L Smith

Write in: Bill Freehan
6:16 AM Nov 29th

MarisFan61
(Clarification of my post below: When I talked about metrics 'not weighting things appropriately,' I meant apparent specific things about specific players, as in the given instance. I didn't mean that in general, on the average, things aren't weighted appropriately. I do have various stray views on that too, as I'm sure many of us do, but that's not what I was talking about.)
12:59 AM Nov 29th

pbspelly
Not to drag this out, but if we start focusing on behavior that hurts society as a whole, we'd probably have to exclude the heavy drinkers, since it is well established that alcohol does more harm to society in America than cocaine, pills, or any other substance, legal or illegal. There goes Mantle, Ford, Alexander, Waner, and a bunch of others, not to mention some guy named Ruth, who was known to toss back a few.
9:24 PM Nov 28th

MarisFan61
P.S. about Keith Hernandez:
A principle (I probably should find something else to call it because people have gotten on my case about what I call a "principle" :-) ....but hey, it's just a word) .....a principle that I follow with every use of sabermetrics and which I advocate as a constant and routine thing, but which few people here seem comfortable to embrace, is the "mental correction" for whatever metric or result we see. I mean, realizing always that the metric is limited, that it can't possibly take everything into account and that some of what it does take into account, it doesn't 'weight' appropriately. And, when we're considering a particular player or team or whatever it might be, endeavoring to grasp what kinds of such things might be involved, and to mentally 'tweak' the metric or result. I don't mean doing it in any quantitative way, just in a rough impressionistic way -- which I know goes still further against the inclinations of many of the sabermetrically-oriented, even though it's essentially just the same as Question #9 on the Keltner List.

On "JAWS," which of course is based simply on the numbers, Keith Hernandez comes out as the #18 first baseman of all time. That's pretty good right there. He's right behind (and just minimally behind) Hank Greenberg, Mark McGwire (PED enhancement and all), and George Sisler, and ahead of Harmon Killebrew, John Olerud, and Bill Terry; also (further down) Will Clark, Tony Perez, Fred McGriff, and Orlando Cepeda -- just on the numbers. If we then ask ourselves how the metric probably fails somewhat, and in which direction -- again, this is really just the same as the Keltner List question -- I think this is a pretty easy call. Defensive metrics for 1B's are far from great, and my impression is that they generally fail to give sufficient credit to the best defensive 1B's. I think that part of it is pretty noncontroversial. I would add an additional 'tweak' as well for leadership. This doesn't mean that others among the above players wouldn't get some nice credit for these things too, but to me Keith Hernandez pretty clearly merits more of a positive tweak than most of them, if not almost all of them.

How far up would he move? IMO far enough that we're on pretty solid ground considering him a Hall of Famer. A guy who comes out as well within that crowd just on the numbers, and well in the running for greatest defensive 1B of all time -- I have trouble seeing how that's not a Hall of Famer.

4:17 PM Nov 28th

MarisFan61
To MWeddell: A couple of things.....
First of all and for what it's worth, as I've mentioned a number of time, I actually would vote for Bonds for the Hall of Fame. You're right about my view on PED's, but it doesn't mean I rule out a player because he used them or benefited from them; what I look at is being convinced enough that the player's greatness wasn't a creation of the PED's. I look at whether he was a great player, and whether I think the greatness was 'real.'

I don't consider cocaine use necessarily to violate the "character" thing, not 'ipso facto' anyway. Like many other things, both drug and non-drug, it depends. And sure, cocaine could take away from a player's performance and from the team's performance, but to me, what this comes back to is, what was the player's performance and the team's performance. I'm aware of the Herzog thing with Keith, but don't know what to make of it. I know Keith mainly from his record and from his years with the Mets, and from what I can tell from those things, he's a Hall of Famer and I don't see any reason that cocaine use negates it. But I appreciate your post, and I can easily see that view.
3:52 PM Nov 28th

kgh
Jeff Kent
Larry Walker
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
John Smoltz
Dwight Evans
Kevin Brown

Write-in: Bobby Grich

7:48 AM Nov 28th

MWeddell
OK, I’ll bite. How is cocaine use any argument against a player at all? Given that you have advocated taking weighing steroid use more heavily that others do on this website, a response seems to be appropriate. Indeed, anyone who doesn’t vote for Barry Bonds is not just weighing steroid use but using it as a reason for excluding all steroid users without regard to the weight of their baseball-playing accomplishments.

Some arguments, comparing cocaine use to pre-2005 steroid use:

Hall criteria requires voters to consider integrity, sportsmanship and character when voting whether a baseball player should be inducted into the Hall of Fame. Granted that we probably exaggerate the average magnitude of the effects in both directions, which conduct evidences less integrity, engaging in behavior that is performance-detracting or performance-enhancing? In the pre-2005 era, enhanced performance meant you got to star in a “chicks dig the long ball” advertisement and your team may have won more games. Taking cocaine meant your team may have lost more games and management wasn’t happy (e.g. Pirates considering suing Dave Parker, as described in one of Bill’s historical abstracts or Whitey Herzog selling low on Keith Hernandez to get him out of the Cardinals’ clubhouse).

Which behavior, using anabolic steroids without a prescription or taking cocaine was more serious criminal behavior? Which one hurts society as a whole more? To me, it obviously is cocaine use.

Trying to judge players by the ethical standards prevalent at the time that they played, can one really be harsher on steroid users than on cocaine users? Estimates of the % of baseball players once used steroids are completely speculative but range as high has 50% or 70%. I’m sure cocaine use among rich young athletes in the 1980s was high, but was it that high?

OK, end of the arguments; beginning of my own idiosyncratic opinion. I’ve supported Paul Molitor and Tim Raines for the Hall of Fame and have supported numerous known and suspected steroid users. I tend to draw a line for steroid users starting in 2005 when baseball began non-anonymous testing with suspensions and the risk of a steroid-user becoming a public pariah should have been known. This stance would still exclude Rafael Palmeiro, Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez and Ryan Braun from the Hall of Fame, but not go so far as to exclude nearly all of the best players from a 20-year period. Others may arrive at different conclusions. I’ll try not to judge yours or anyone else’s stance unfairly as long as you are being historically consistent and not pretending that modern day steroid use is the only conceivable “violation” of the character criteria in the Hall of Fame standard.
7:14 AM Nov 28th

MarisFan61
(How is cocaine use any argument against a player at all?)
11:21 PM Nov 27th

gejerz
Unit
Pedro
Dawson
Sheffield
Lawson

Write in
Minoso

Not ready on Sosa yet.
10:47 PM Nov 27th

78sman
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
John Smoltz
Curt Schilling
Dewey (Dwight) Evans
Write-in: Reggie Smith, who has a much better OPS+ than many Hall of Famers, and who was a good, but not great defensive Center Fielder.
9:20 PM Nov 27th

pbspelly
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
Dwight Evans
Sammy Sosa
Dale Murphy

write in : Keith Hernandez. Going to keep writing him in until he's in. The more we learn about how to evaluate defense, the better Keith looks. Greatest defensive first baseman ever, and a very fine hitter until he got hurt. And as an avid Mets watcher, I can tell you he deserves more credit than anyone else for the team winning the world series in '86. Some people vote against him because of the admitted cocaine use, but I don't hold that against him since he got his act together, and it was a personal problem, it wasn't like he was doing it to gain an unfair advantage (a la 'roids). His only real flaw is that Just For Men ad campaign with Walt Frazier, which is tough to overlook.
8:21 PM Nov 27th

mikeclaw
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Sammy Sosa
4:19 PM Nov 27th

bearbyz
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
Larry Walker
Dwight Evans
Ken Lofton
Andre Dawson
Fred McGriff
Gary Sheffield

Write in: Minnie Minoso
1:07 PM Nov 27th

DHM
Pedro
Randy
Dooo-wee
Sheffield
Hawk
Schilling - but his acceptance speech is limited to 15 seconds, or else Hawk punches him.
Smoltz
I just can't bring myself to vote for Sosa, Palmeiro, Brown, or Walker until these other guys get in. But you're right: 600 homers is astounding, and they played at a high level given the era. I'll consider them again next year.

Write in: Will Clark

10:47 AM Nov 27th

Tubbs44
My ballot:
Johnson
Martinez
Schilling
Smoltz
Walker
Evans-I'm a huge Evans HOF supporter, can't wait to read what Dave writes about him
Lofton
Dawson-power, fielding, & longevity outweigh his horrendous OBP
McGriff-overshadowed by PED users
Murphy

Write in: Grich-awesome player, would love to see him on the Expansion Era ballot
9:06 AM Nov 27th

clayyearsley
Unit
Pedro
Sheffield

Write-in: Concepcion
7:54 AM Nov 27th

gingras
1- Randy Johnson
2- Pedro
3- John Smoltz
4- Larry Walker
5- Dwight Evans

6:03 AM Nov 27th

CWright
R. Johnson
P. Martinez
J. Smoltz
D. Evans
A.Dawson
J. Kent
R. Palmeiro
9:09 PM Nov 26th

ChitownRon
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
John Smoltz
Kenny Lofton
Sammy Sosa
Dwight Evans
Lee Smith
8:32 PM Nov 26th

MWeddell
R. Johnson
P. Martinez
J. Smoltz
D. Evans
G Sheffield
C. Schilling
L. Walker
K. Brown
A. Dawson
S. Sosa

Write-in candidate is Bill Dahlen.
7:46 PM Nov 26th

jalbright
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
Dwight Evans
Kenny Lofton
Gary Sheffield
Andre Dawson
Jeff Kent

3:03 PM Nov 26th

rangerforlife
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Larry Walker

Write-in: Minnie Minoso
12:26 PM Nov 26th

RonMock
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Larry Walker -- gotta have a hitter on my ballot!

I want to write in Jack Morris to watch people spit out their coffee... but I'll go along with Grich for this year's write in.
9:37 AM Nov 26th

rtallia
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
Dwight Evans
Gary Sheffield

write-in: Orval Overall. Because the BJOL HOF needs to have someone in it with the initials "O.O."

9:16 AM Nov 26th

lazer
In no particular order:

Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Dwight Evans
Andre Dawson
Jeff Kent
Sammy Sosa
John Smoltz
Curt Schilling
Rafael Palmeiro
Gary Sheffield

Write-In: Bobby Grich

9:08 AM Nov 26th

hansjn
1) Pedro Martinez
2) Randy Johnson
3) Kenny Lofton
4) Lee Smith
5) Curt Schilling
6) John Smoltz

8:49 AM Nov 26th

rfleming

Pedro Martinez

Larry Walker

8:12 AM Nov 26th

dburba
Pedro Martinez
Randy Johnson
John Smoltz
Gary Sheffield
Sammy Sosa
Andre Dawson

Write-in: Ted Simmons
7:41 AM Nov 26th

brewer09
1. Pedro Martinez
2. Randy Johnson
3. Gary Sheffield

write-in candidate | Pete Rose

Curt Schilling receives strong support here, but he isn't any better than Kevin Brown or Orel Hershiser.

Dwight Evans is better than Jim Rice, but I don't think that makes him a Hall of Famer.

7:00 AM Nov 26th

DaveFleming
Gotta keep it to one write-in, folks. Choose your champion, though Grich is building a commanding lead.
12:44 AM Nov 26th

shthar
I think you forgot the 'most times mentioned in the title of a Stephen King book' method of rating players.

12:15 AM Nov 26th

evanecurb
I didn't know we got a write in. I'll go with Quisenberry.
11:49 PM Nov 25th

articmike
Alpha Ballot

1) Kevin Brown
2) Brian Giles
3) Randy Johnson
4) Pedro Martinez
5) Fred McGriff
6) Dale Murphy
7) Gary Sheffield
8) Lee Smith
9) Larry Walker
10) Bernie Williams

The player I would like to see listed on next year's BJOL HOF ballot is David Cone.
11:37 PM Nov 25th

DMBBHF
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Dwight Evans
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Kenny Lofton
Fred McGriff
Andre Dawson
Jeff Kent
Larry Walker

Write-in: How about Bill Freehan?
11:22 PM Nov 25th

metsfan17
Pedro, Randy, Schilling, Smoltz and Sheffield. There are so many excellent ballplayers on the ballot. I loved Bernie and Giles but I just don't know if they and the others on the ballot are Hall of Famers.

3 write ins: Keith Hernandez Of course. Greatest defensive 1B of all time. An excellent hitter and was great on Seinfeld.

Write in: Another guy who I always loved and thought was really underrated was Jose Cruz. Can a guy have been hurt much more by his hitting environment.

Write in: Dave Concepcion
10:10 PM Nov 25th

sprox
BJHOF ballot 2014:

Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
Kenny Lofton
Andre Dawson
Sammy Sosa
Fred McGriff
Nomar Garciaparra

7:27 PM Nov 25th

wwiyw
BJHOF:

Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Dewey Evans
Gary Sheffield
John Smoltz
Fred McGriff
Jeff Kent

write in:

Reggie Smith

6:49 PM Nov 25th

steve161
Thanks for the reminder, Dave. I forgot to add a write-in and I'm still all in with Keith Hernandez.
6:02 PM Nov 25th

DaveFleming
I'm sad there'll be no effort to get Jack Glasscock in this year, Bob. And the people who were behind last elections strong push for Keith Hernandez have been awfully quiet this year.

And I think you have eleven players listed, jayodum. Care to cut one?
5:54 PM Nov 25th

jayodum
Randy Johnson

Pedro Martinez

Curt Schilling

John Smoltz

Larry Walker

Rafael Palmeiro

Gary Sheffield

Fred McGriff

Dwight Evans

Kenny Lofton

Andre Dawson

Write In: Grich
5:15 PM Nov 25th

raincheck
I'll use my write in for Grich. Give Kent another second baseman to hang with. Plus I was an Angel fan back in Grich's day and loved him.
5:14 PM Nov 25th

shinsplint
sorry...ok, I'll delete Rose
4:25 PM Nov 25th

rlk123
R. Johnson
P. Martinez
C. Schilling
G. Sheffield
J. Kent
F. McGriff

WI: B. Grich
4:10 PM Nov 25th

rgregory1956
Hey Dave and Shins, I haven't used my write-in choice yet, so which ever one Shins deletes, I'll nominate. Now I don't have to decide whether to submit Ross Barnes, Jack Glasscock or Bobby Mathews.
4:02 PM Nov 25th

DaveFleming
Gotta pick one write-in, shinsplint. Grich is leading the charge right now, but Rose would be interesting to have on the ballot.
3:33 PM Nov 25th

taosjohn
1. Johnson
2. Martinez
3. Smoltz
4. Sosa
5. Palmiero
6. Schilling
7. Lofton
8. Kent
9. Smith
10. -vacant-

WI: Grich
2:42 PM Nov 25th

OwenH
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
Dwight Evans
Kevin Brown
Gary Sheffield
Andre Dawson
Jeff Kent

Write-in: Bobby Grich
2:36 PM Nov 25th

shinsplint
R. Johnson
P. Martinez
C. Schilling
J. Smoltz
R. Palmiero
K. Brown
J. Kent

Two write-ins (thanks agcohen and mrbryan)

Pete Rose
Bobby Grich
2:22 PM Nov 25th

dtandy
Thanks Dave!
Ballot:
Johnson
Martinez
Smoltz
Evans
Sheffield
Williams
Delgado
Walker
Palmeiro
McGriff
Write-in: Bobby Grich, whom we will certainly elect if he gets on next year's ballot.
1:34 PM Nov 25th

Hal10000
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Dwight Evans
Rafael Palmeiro
Kenny Lofton
Kevin Brown
Fred McGriff
Dale Murphy

1:23 PM Nov 25th

agcohen
In alphabetical order:

Dwight Evans
Randy Johnson
Kenny Lofton
Pedro Martinez
Fred McGriff
Rafael Palmeiro
Curt Shilling
Lee Smith
John Smoltz
Larry Walker

Write In: Pete Rose

12:46 PM Nov 25th

ventboys
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz

I used to vote for a bunch of borderline C/D level guys, but I changed my mind about it – the Veterans’ Committee can have ‘em. The current Steroid guys were so obvious about it, and so not Raven when they were off the juice, that I figure they land in the VC morass as well. I’ll submit/suggest Will Clark as my write-in; he was pre-juice with a verified body fat of 16% (that’s higher than mine was in my twenties), and he looks like Bruce Campbell and Jim Carrey had a weird kid. How can anyone not love a candidate like that?

12:33 PM Nov 25th

DavidHNix
Kevin Brown
Curt Schilling
Jeff Kent
Gary Sheffield

No more Mr. Nice Guys.

12:14 PM Nov 25th

dbutler69
1. Randy Johnson
2. Pedro Martinez
3. Curt Schilling
4. John Smoltz
5. Larry Walker
6. Dwight Evans
7. Andre Dawson
8. Kenny Lofton
9. Fred McGriff
10. Jeff Kent

Kevin Brown would be 11, Bernie Williams 12, and Lee Smith 13, if I were allowed so many votes.
12:11 PM Nov 25th

steve161
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Gary Sheffield
Larry Walker
Lee Smith
Fred McGriff

I go back and forth on Kevin Brown. Ask me again next year. Or the day after tomorrow.

Rafael Palmeiro just doesn't feel like a HOFer to me and it has little or nothing to do with PEDs. Irrational, I know.
12:00 PM Nov 25th

evanecurb
I don't understand the problem with Sosa. He hit over 600 home runs. That's a lot of home runs.
12:00 PM Nov 25th

evanecurb
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Kevin Brown
Sammy Sosa
Fred McGriff
Bernie Williams
Dale Murphy
Lee Smith

11:59 AM Nov 25th

StatsGuru
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
Gary Sheffield
Jeff Kent
Curt Schilling
11:47 AM Nov 25th

mrbryan
Well, you've got to start with these two:

R. Johnson
P. Martinez

Could you have two more unique pitchers with two more common last names? Johnson will be the best player in the Hall of Fame who is not as good as another player in the Hall of Fame with the same last name. How's that for a mouthful?

Dwight Evans

Great fielder, and a hitter who did everything well. Oddly, I'm leaving off Walker, because the Colorado thing bothers me a lot more than the Fenway thing.

Palmeiro

So he made a fool of himself. The man could hit, and he continued to do so for a long, long time.

Write in Candidate: Bobby Grich

11:37 AM Nov 25th

bobburpee
r johnson
p martinez
c schilling
l walker
d evans
g sheffield
j kent

write-in: darrell evans
11:09 AM Nov 25th

rjm1026
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
Dwight Evans
Gary Sheffield
Curt Schilling
10:44 AM Nov 25th

Edward
My 2015 BJOL ballot:

1.) Randy Johnson
2.) Curt Schilling
3.) John Smoltz
4.) Pedro Martinez
5.) Kenny Lofton
6.)
7.)
8.)
9.)
10.)

Write-in: Buddy Bell
9:55 AM Nov 25th

raincheck
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez.

Because it is obvious.

Curt Schilling - a great pitcher with a great signature moment
Gary Sheffield - partly because of his numbers, partly because I just loved watching him hit
Jeff Kent - because otherwise no one will be willing to play 2b and because he was so old school and tough and unlikeable, and I kind of liked that. If he played with Frisch he would be a no brainier, and he seems like a guy who did.

McGriff and Dawson - great hitters lost in the PEDs that followed
9:47 AM Nov 25th

Yitzchak
Johnson, R.
Martinez, P.
Schilling, C.
Smoltz, J.
Smith, L.
9:45 AM Nov 25th

Jack
Forgot about nominating a write-in candidate: Trevor Hoffman (unless he's already been voted on and taken off the ballot, which I might very well have missed).

Also, just to note: The collusion of the late 1980s was not amoral, it was immoral.
9:34 AM Nov 25th

Jack
Here's my ballot:

Big Unit
Pedro
Saint Bloody Sock, Breaker of Nonexistent Curses
Smoltz
Larry Walker
Dewey Evans
Sheffield (scariest hitter ever)
McGriff

Johnson and Martinez are first-ballot no-brainers. The others are, in my view, solid and deserving candidates. I feel McGriff, as the last of the pre-steroid-era-offensive-explosion sluggers, deserves recognition.

The guys I reluctantly left off the ballot:

Palmeiro - my feeling is that without PEDs, he would not have had the longevity and total counting stats he did. This may not be fair, especially given my voting for Sheffield, but it is what it is.

Lofton - terrific ballplayer, but not at the Raines-Henderson level.

Kevin Brown - easily caricatured as the anti-Schilling: a surly guy who didn't like the fans or his teammates, feelings that were reciprocated, and who came up small in the post-season. None of which is really fair. Still, I can't bring myself to vote for him.
9:30 AM Nov 25th

colinb
My Ballot in it's entirety:

Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez

I feel a little bad about only voting for two, and only voting for the obvious ones, but as the Hall is THE greatest honor in the sport, it should be reserved for only THE greatest players in the sport. Nothing less.

That's my belief anyway.

My write in, because this is a website and because like you said we're only doing it for fun: Fernando Tatis.
Yes I realize the only truly meaningful thing he did was that one inning, but in my mind that's enough for a whole room in Cooperstown.
9:29 AM Nov 25th

Riceman1974
Here we go:

Big Unit
Pedro
Curt
Smoltz
Kent (barely)

-CTR
9:25 AM Nov 25th

doncoffin
I also considered Kevin Brown...close, but no cigar.
9:24 AM Nov 25th

doncoffin

Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
Dwight Evans

That's all I'd be willing to vote for from that list. I considered, but decided against

Kenny Lofton
Gary Sheffield
Andre Dawson
Jeff Kent
Bernie Williams
Sammy Sosa
9:23 AM Nov 25th

rgregory1956
There is another HOF-type election over on the Reader Posts. Different rules, different criteria, but just as fun. The thread is titled "2015 gor".
9:19 AM Nov 25th

DavidHeflin
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Gary Sheffield
Larry Walker
Dwight Evans
Fred McGriff
Kevin Brown
Jeff Kent
9:08 AM Nov 25th

rgregory1956
I have to make this comment every year, so here it is again:

I DON'T VOTE FOR FIRST TIME NOMINEES. IT'S THE ONLY LEVERAGE I HAVE TO SHOW MY DISAPPOINTMENT WITH THE '94-'95 STRIKE AND THE WHOLE PED ISSUE.

It's just a one-year moratorium for players (or one election cycle for managers). It's a "lifetime ban" for commissioners, owners and general managers; I blame them more than the players. Plus they are responsible for the amoral collusion of the late '80s.

So that being said, here is my ballot, alphabetically:
Kevin Brown
Fred McGriff
Curt Schilling
Lee Smith

I fully expect Johnson and Martinez to be elected this year, both by the BBWAA and by BJOL.
7:48 AM Nov 25th

sansho1
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
John Smoltz
Dwight Evans
Dale Murphy

This is my BBWAA-style ballot. It is off the top of my head, and replete with personal biases and steroid moralizing.
7:05 AM Nov 25th

MarisFan61
My ballot:

Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
John Smoltz
Lee Smith
Bernie Williams

My criteria: Vote for whoever I think definitely deserves it, plus whatever borderline candidates I just happen to really like (sorry) :-) and not for the borderline candidates that I don't have any particular interest in.

My main wish, which seems doubtful to come true, is for Palmeiro's butt to be knocked off this ballot. I've noted before -- and wondered out loud why this is, and it was met (wrongly) as a rhetorical moralistic judgment when actually it was just a curious wonderment, and still is -- I've noted that the members of this site are much less bothered about PED-enhanced performance than are the BBWAA voters (as is clearly seen by the huge differentials in votes on the relevant candidates), and I think also much less bothered than the general public. I really wonder why that is. It just surprises me that this site shows this view. I would have thought that if anything, our members are more "purist" than the BBWAA and the general public, and that therefore the vote differential would be (if anything) in the other direction.
3:37 AM Nov 25th

MarisFan61
If you want to know my opinion, which I know hardly anyone does :-) .....since the main thing that makes this interesting (I would think) is that it coincides with the actual Hall of Fame voting, you shouldn't leave out actual-eligible players who have already been elected in this "BJOL" vote. First of all, there might be new members of this site who weren't here for the previous votes. I know that in fact there aren't a lot of new members as time goes on (or so it seems), but hopefully that will change as time goes on, and, perhaps even the current practice is a subtle kind of thing that discourages new people from becoming interested. I think it's more inviting if they see all the actual candidates, and kind of uninviting if some of the most interesting and most discussed candidates aren't here to be voted on. And also, people here who have voted one way or the other in the past might change their mind. Of course we could say all the same about the actual HOF voters, and they don't re-vote on players they've already voted in, and maybe you want to emulate that and have this as its own kind of enshrinement. I guess that's just what this is, sort of an actual HOF of its own, and maybe what I'm talking about would make it a completely different kind of thing. But maybe think about it. I do think the main reason this is of interest is that it coincides with the actual voting, and I think it does seem odd -- especially perhaps to newly arrived people -- to see some of the actual candidates, including some of the most discussed ones, not available to be voted on.
3:22 AM Nov 25th

DaveFleming
Schilling is sometimes tough to bear, but I'll always have a soft spot for him. When the Sox signed him he made a profile and jumped on the Sons of Sam Horn website, a message board and community for Red Sox obsessives. He's been a regular poster there ever since. He has a bad habit of saying stupid things, but I prefer him to the players who keep their distance. He's a baseball obsessive: anyone who names their kid 'Gehrig' isn't doing it casually. I'd have a beer with him.
1:45 AM Nov 25th

kingferris
My Ballot:

Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Curt "You're Making It Hard For My Self-Righteous Liberal Ass To Do This" Schilling

Guys I'm Not Voting For But Wouldn't Mind If Others Did

Dwight Evans
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
Kenny Lofton

A Few Notes

I know WAR despises Gary Sheffield's defense. Ditto Manny, another right-handed, corner-outfield masher. I guess Win Shares sees Gary as average in the field, which would bring his overall WAR into the 80-range, I believe.

Darin Erstad was the best CF I've ever seen. Baseball Reference metrics back me up on this; he had plus speed and a fine arm but it was his instincts that were so tremendous and it's strange how the Angels tended to bounce him to left field and first base depending on how Salmon, Edmonds & Anderson were feeling.

Brian Giles WAS an underrated player but his off-field behavior makes him an unlikely cause celebre.
1:10 AM Nov 25th

2015 BJOL HOF Ballot

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