Remember me

Raising Hal

July 4, 2010

            When a player hits 25 home runs at the age of 23 and 25 homers at the age of 40, what one may generally assume is that somewhere in between, he hit 35 or 40.  Harold Baines didn’t, and this is what was so weird about his career.  When a player drives in 105 runs at age 23 and 103 runs at age 40, one would generally assume that his career high was 137.   It seems like he should have set some kind of record other than knee surgeries.  Harold had only one other 100-RBI season, that being 113 at the age of 26.  It’s not that Baines was bad in those other years; it’s just that he wasn’t any better.

            The point of this article is not that Harold Baines should be in the Hall of Fame, but merely that he could be.  Baines had more hits, more home runs, and a higher batting average—all three—than 31 Hall of Famers, including four outfielders and a first baseman.  He had more RBI than 30 of those players.   In spite of this, after several years on the ballot he has yet to draw as much as 7% support in the Hall of Fame voting.

            Nor am I saying that that’s wrong; I am merely pointing out that it could be different.  We could make Harold Baines a Hall of Famer, I believe, merely by re-arranging his performance.   At least, we’re going to try.

            This is the second piece of Trash Sabermetrics that I promised you or, if you prefer, threatened you with.   We’re going to take a log of all the games that Harold Baines played in his career, game by game, and then we’re going to re-arrange them so that they look better.  

Baines missed the Hall of Fame, I believe, because he packaged his production wrong.   He missed the cut-offs, stepped on the magic numbers.   He needed to hit .300 with 12 homers and 70 RBI one year, then hit .280 with 36 homers and 120 RBI the next year.   Instead, he hit .290 with 24 homers and 95 RBI both years.   He drove in 99 runs, 95, 94, 93, and 90.  He hit 20 homers eleven times, but with a career high of 29.   He did hit .300 eight times, but he also hit .299, .296, .295, .294 and .290.   He never had 200 hits in a season—198, yes, but not 200. 

            Among the keys to having star-type numbers is playing enough games that you can reach the standards.   Baines, like Norm Cash, would play 140 games a year and bat 480 times a year.   He had ten seasons with 400 to 505 at bats.   It’s tough to drive in 100 runs in 475 at bats.   It’s a great deal easier in 600.

            Please note that our Alternative Harold is not 1% better or worse than the real Harold Baines.   Every game that Harold Baines played has an exact match in our alternate reality.   The totals are precisely the same.   All we’re doing is, we’re moving the boxes around.

            We start by creating a log of every game that Baines played, which we can do very easily through the wonders of Retrosheet.org and Excel.xls.

            The next thing we need to do is to sort out those games in which Baines had three at bats or less, and make several “seasons” out of those.

            Why?

            Well. . ..Tony Perez.   Tony Perez in his career had 2,732 hits; Baines had 2,866.  Perez had 379 homers; Baines had 385.   Perez had 1,652 RBI: Baines had 1,628.   Perez hit .279; Baines hit .285.   Perez had an OPS of .804, Baines had an OPS of .820.

            Nonetheless, Perez’ numbers look better, and the basic reason that they look better is that Perez had eight seasons (two at the start of his career and six at the end) of 69 to 104 games played with 137 to 306 at bats.    Baines had a few of those, too (three), but basically, Baines mixed in all of those pinch-hitting appearances and days off to rest his aching knees into his regular seasons.    Perez had seasons of 160 games and 600 at bats, and seasons of 80 games and 200 at bats.   Baines had seasons of 120 games and 400 at bats.   That enabled Perez to reach the magic numbers much more often.   By taking these “low at bat” games out of Baines “regular production”, we’ll make it much easier, later on, for him to get the at bats that he needs in the other seasons.

            So we sort out all of the games in which Baines had 3 at bats or less, and then we sort those at random to make “bench player seasons” for him.   We need “full time seasons” and “bench player seasons”.

            Baines had 539 games in his career in which he had 3 plate appearances or fewer (I would guess that Perez had about the same number.)   That’s actually not quite enough for what we are doing.   A bench player sometimes is in the lineup.   If we divide those 539 games into eight seasons, that would be only 69 games per season.   We want more like 85, so we need to take another 130 games, and mix them into the bench player seasons.

            OK, how do we find those games?

            Well, we don’t want really good games in there, because these aren’t “star” seasons.  On the other hand, we don’t want all terrible games in there, either, because that would give him eight seasons as a bench player, but a .185 batting average as a bench player, which a) would be unrealistic, and b) would look bad.

            What we’ll do is, we’ll move out of range or “protect” all of the games in which Baines had 3 or more RBI (132 games) and all of the games in which he had 4 or more hits (another 25 games.)   For the sake of clarity, Baines had 140 games in his career in which he had 3 or more RBI and 36 games in which he had 4 or more hits, but we’re not “protecting” all of those.   We’re not protecting the games in which he had 3 or more RBI with 3 or less at bats, and many of the games in which he had 4 or more hits were also the games in which he had 3 or more RBI, so those don’t need to be protected separately.

            Then, having protected most of the “special” games to keep them available for the prime years, we select at random 130 games to be included as games that Alt-Baines started in his bench player seasons.

            OK, now we have 669 games for Baines as a bench player, during which games he hit .246 with a .698 OPS, 41 homers.   (Baines actual record, in the 539 games in which he had three plate appearances or less, was .243 with 25 homers, 140 RBI and a .678 OPS.   This is generally true, that if you take any player and sort out the games in which he has three plate appearances or less, he will not have hit well in those games.)  Anyway, we sort those games at random until we get “seasons” that look realistic, which happens almost immediately.   These are the eight “bench seasons” that we have created for Alt-Baines:

 

G

AB

R

H

2B

3B

HR

RBI

BB

SO

SB

CS

AVG

OBP

SLG

OPS

67

136

13

38

9

1

3

20

19

21

1

0

.279

.365

.426

.792

91

248

42

73

10

1

12

46

25

33

2

0

.294

.359

.488

.847

102

211

22

44

8

1

6

21

23

32

1

3

.209

.288

.341

.629

102

219

16

46

10

0

4

26

25

37

1

1

.210

.291

.311

.601

92

211

21

58

9

0

5

30

24

34

1

1

.275

.352

.389

.740

73

179

16

41

6

2

5

26

15

34

0

0

.229

.292

.369

.661

57

120

11

24

7

2

1

17

13

20

0

0

.200

.278

.317

.595

85

187

15

48

5

0

5

20

15

35

0

0

.257

.312

.364

.676

 

            Later on we will worry about where to position these in the Alt-Baines career.  Now we delete all of those games’ from Baines Game Log, so that we don’t re-use any of those game lines.

            The next thing we need to do is to ensure that the Alt-Baines has a couple of MVP-type seasons.   Having a couple of MVP-type seasons is essential to the perception of a player as a star.   A player who just goes along playing pretty well every year will slip under the radar, compared to an equally good player who concentrates more production into a shorter time frame.

            We could, of course, simply put all of Baines’ best games into one season, creating a “season” in which Baines hits .525 with 128 homers, 522 RBI.   That would be preposterous.    We could also give Baines a couple of obvious MVP seasons, seasons in which he hits .350 with 48 homers, but that doesn’t really help him; that just tends to make the rest of his career look bad.   We want realistic star seasons, like Tony Perez had in 1969 and 1970 (.294 with 37 homers, 122 RBI and .317 with 40 homers, 129 RBI.)  We’ve got Perez Envy.

             We can create these seasons by simply sorting Baines’ game log at random, making 162-game totals, and seeing what falls out.   What occurs at random will be a realistic statement of the seasons that Baines could have had.

            An observation.   Baines now drives in 100 runs in almost all of his remaining 162-game groups.    When we isolate Baines low-plate appearances games, he drives in well over 100 runs per 162 games in the remaining games, thus making most of his random groups into Hall of Fame seasons.   At this point it is fairly hard not to find a Hall of Fame season.

            So the first group of games that we will take out is this random group:

 

G

AB

R

H

2B

3B

HR

RBI

BB

SO

SB

CS

AVG

OBP

SLG

OPS

162

639

87

217

41

2

36

141

68

91

1

0

.340

.403

.579

.982

 

            And the second random group is this one:

 

G

AB

R

H

2B

3B

HR

RBI

BB

SO

SB

CS

AVG

OBP

SLG

OPS

162

640

105

208

41

2

38

130

54

91

4

1

.325

.380

.573

.954

 

            And once more, we take these games out of the Game Log, so that we don’t re-use these lines. 

            From now on, our task is to re-arrange Baines’ production so that Alt-Baines meets as many star-type accomplishments as is realistic.   Of course, taking these two MVP-candidate seasons out of Baines’ log weakens what is left, and we can’t assign him to play 162 games every season; that’s unrealistic, unless we’re making him Cal Ripken.

            In what is left of Baines career he hit .291 with 269 homers, 1,151 RBI and 2000+ hits, so we have a lot left here to work with.   We can make our task easier by giving him a really bad season, because the press will totally overlook one really bad season; it’s just an injury year.   Let’s form a group of. . .let’s say 112 games. ..that we can live without.

            I had to sort the data several times to get the year that I wanted, but eventually we come up with it:

 

G

AB

R

H

2B

3B

HR

RBI

BB

SO

SB

CS

AVG

OBP

SLG

OPS

112

436

46

98

27

3

5

35

42

67

2

0

.225

.294

.335

.629

 

 

            Now we’re just going to sort the games at random and see what comes out.   We’re looking for groups of games, about the length of a season, in which Baines meets standards of excellence (.300, 100 RBI, 30 homers, 100 runs scored, 200 hits), but does not substantially exceed them, so that he can meet as many as possible of those standards with the seasons that remain.  Here are three groups that work:

 

 

G

AB

R

H

2B

3B

HR

RBI

BB

SO

SB

CS

AVG

OBP

SLG

OPS

153

604

82

177

20

6

31

100

53

85

2

2

.293

.351

.500

.851

143

562

80

160

25

4

33

103

67

76

2

0

.285

.362

.520

.881

152

568

78

183

24

1

23

101

75

69

1

2

.322

.401

.489

.890

 

            At this point we’re driving his OPS down, and we don’t want to drive it down too rapidly, so at this point we have to switch to a slightly more sophisticated sort mechanism.   We need to create a few low-OPS seasons that are consistent with his career, such as seasons in which Alt-Baines hits .300 but with little power—such as a player often does early in his career-- and seasons in which he hits for power and walks but hits for a low average, such as a player often does late in his career.  We make a figure. . .let’s say (3B + SB + R + H – HR – RBI – BB – SO)/10.  If we sort the career by that figure alone, all of the triples and stolen bases will go to one end of the chart, while all of the home runs and strikeouts will go to the other.   We don’t want all of them to separate; we just want that to tend to happen.   We can do that by adding the “age formula” (above) to five times a random number.   That will give us what is basically a random sort, but with some tendency for the games with triples and stolen bases and hits to go to one end of the chart, and some tendency for the games with homers and walks to go to the other end.

            Experimenting, I find that the formula above doesn’t exactly work.   The formula that actually works is (3B + SB + R + H/2 – 4*HR – RBI – BB – SO) /10 + 7 * (Rand).   That enables us to sort out a season for early in the player’s career, in which he hits .300, but with a relatively low OPS, and a season for late in the player’s career, in which he has a relatively low OPS but drives in 100 runs:

 

GS

AB

R

H

2B

3B

HR

RBI

BB

SO

SB

CS

AVG

OBP

SLG

OPS

143

541

76

163

28

4

10

76

58

84

2

3

.301

.368

.423

.791

145

563

60

158

21

1

22

103

58

93

0

2

.281

.349

.439

.788

 

            At this point we’ve selected 16 seasons for Alt-Baines, and we still have 988 games left—7 seasons—during which Baines hit .294 with an .833 OPS.   We’re just going to sort them at random, and pick out groups of 150 to 160 games that look good:

 

G

AB

R

H

2B

3B

HR

RBI

BB

SO

SB

CS

AVG

OBP

SLG

OPS

155

581

94

181

31

3

26

120

84

77

2

2

.312

.398

.509

.908

155

604

77

187

33

3

19

87

68

93

4

5

.310

.380

.469

.849

162

632

86

192

34

3

29

109

65

89

1

4

.304

.370

.505

.874

160

624

86

159

26

2

23

100

67

84

2

0

.255

.327

.413

.741

160

629

85

179

40

3

19

100

68

90

1

3

.285

.354

.448

.803

158

626

81

190

29

4

24

101

55

78

2

3

.304

.360

.478

.837

39

148

20

42

4

1

5

16

21

28

2

2

.284

.373

.426

.799

 

            OK, now we have 23 seasons of performance which, in the aggregate, will exactly duplicate Harold Baines’ performance (including in things like HBP and GIDP, which were not explicitly tracked here because it makes the line too wide.)   These are those 23 seasons (eliminating Caught Stealing to make room):

 

 

Year

G

AB

R

H

2B

3B

HR

RBI

BB

SO

SB

AVG

OBP

SLG

OPS

1

57

120

11

24

7

2

1

17

13

20

0

.200

.278

.317

.595

2

91

248

42

73

10

1

12

46

25

33

2

.294

.359

.488

.847

3

102

211

22

44

8

1

6

21

23

32

1

.209

.288

.341

.629

4

102

219

16

46

10

0

4

26

25

37

1

.210

.291

.311

.601

5

92

211

21

58

9

0

5

30

24

34

1

.275

.352

.389

.740

6

73

179

16

41

6

2

5

26

15

34

0

.229

.292

.369

.661

7

67

136

13

38

9

1

3

20

19

21

1

.279

.365

.426

.792

8

85

187

15

48

5

0

5

20

15

35

0

.257

.312

.364

.676

9

162

639

87

217

41

2

36

141

68

91

1

.340

.403

.579

.982

10

162

640

105

208

41

2

38

130

54

91

4

.325

.380

.573

.954

11

112

436

46

98

27

3

5

35

42

67

2

.225

.294

.335

.629

12

153

604

82

177

20

6

31

100

53

85

2

.293

.351

.500

.851

13

143

562

80

160

25

4

33

103

67

76

2

.285

.362

.520

.881

14

152

568

78

183

24

1

23

101

75

69

1

.322

.401

.489

.890

15

143

541

76

163

28

4

10

76

58

84

2

.301

.368

.423

.791

16

145

563

60

158

21

1

22

103

58

93

0

.281

.349

.439

.788

17

155

581

94

181

31

3

26

120

84

77

2

.312

.398

.509

.908

18

155

604

77

187

33

3

19

87

68

93

4

.310

.380

.469

.849

19

162

632

86

192

34

3

29

109

65

89

1

.304

.370

.505

.874

20

160

624

86

159

26

2

23

100

67

84

2

.255

.327

.413

.741

21

160

629

85

179

40

3

19

100

68

90

1

.285

.354

.448

.803

22

158

626

81

190

29

4

24

101

55

78

2

.304

.360

.478

.837

23

39

148

20

42

4

1

5

16

21

28

2

.284

.373

.426

.799

 

2830

9908

1299

2866

488

49

384

1628

1062

1441

34

.289

.359

.465

.824

 

 

            What we have to do now is put them in order so that they make sense.  Skipping the explanations, this is the order that makes sense:

 

Year

G

AB

R

H

2B

3B

HR

RBI

BB

SO

SB

AVG

OBP

SLG

OPS

1980

57

120

11

24

7

2

1

17

13

20

0

.200

.278

.317

.595

1981

91

248

42

73

10

1

12

46

25

33

2

.294

.359

.488

.847

1982

143

541

76

163

28

4

10

76

58

84

2

.301

.368

.423

.791

1983

155

604

77

187

33

3

19

87

68

93

4

.310

.380

.469

.849

1984

155

581

94

181

31

3

26

120

84

77

2

.312

.398

.509

.908

1985

152

568

78

183

24

1

23

101

75

69

1

.322

.401

.489

.890

1986

153

604

82

177

20

6

31

100

53

85

2

.293

.351

.500

.851

1987

162

639

87

217

41

2

36

141

68

91

1

.340

.403

.579

.982

1988

158

626

81

190

29

4

24

101

55

78

2

.304

.360

.478

.837

1989

162

640

105

208

41

2

38

130

54

91

4

.325

.380

.573

.954

1990

162

632

86

192

34

3

29

109

65

89

1

.304

.370

.505

.874

1991

112

436

46

98

27

3

5

35

42

67

2

.225

.294

.335

.629

1992

145

563

60

158

21

1

22

103

58

93

0

.281

.349

.439

.788

1993

160

629

85

179

40

3

19

100

68

90

1

.285

.354

.448

.803

1994

39

148

20

42

4

1

5

16

21

28

2

.284

.373

.426

.799

1995

143

562

80

160

25

4

33

103

67

76

2

.285

.362

.520

.881

1996

160

624

86

159

26

2

23

100

67

84

2

.255

.327

.413

.741

1997

102

211

22

44

8

1

6

21

23

32

1

.209

.288

.341

.629

1998

85

187

15

48

5

0

5

20

15

35

0

.257

.312

.364

.676

1999

67

136

13

38

9

1

3

20

19

21

1

.279

.365

.426

.792

2000

102

219

16

46

10

0

4

26

25

37

1

.210

.291

.311

.601

2001

92

211

21

58

9

0

5

30

24

34

1

.275

.352

.389

.740

2002

73

179

16

41

6

2

5

26

15

34

0

.229

.292

.369

.661

 

2830

9908

1299

2866

488

49

384

1628

1062

1441

34

.289

.359

.465

.824

 

 

            Now, does that player go into the Hall of Fame?  I submit that he does.   He’s got eleven 100-RBI seasons, two MVP-candidate seasons, eight seasons hitting .300 as a regular, four 30-homer seasons.    I submit that this guy is elected to the Hall of Fame before Tony Perez and before Jim Rice.

            It’s just Harold Baines, re-organized and re-packaged.

 
 

COMMENTS (20 Comments, most recent shown first)

glkanter
A blurb on the TV just showed Baines is 29th all time with 1,629 RBIs. Jim Thome has 1,601. It looks like everybody in front of Baines that is eligible is in the HoF, as are about the 15 that follow him (except McGriff).

+ - Indicates Hall of Famer. Bold indicates active player.

Rank Player (age) Runs Batted In Bats
1. Hank Aaron+ 2297 R
2. Babe Ruth+ 2213 L
3. Cap Anson+ 2075 R
4. Barry Bonds 1996 L
5. Lou Gehrig+ 1995 L
6. Stan Musial+ 1951 L
7. Ty Cobb+ 1938 L
8. Jimmie Foxx+ 1922 R
9. Eddie Murray+ 1917 B
10. Willie Mays+ 1903 R
11. Mel Ott+ 1860 L
12. Carl Yastrzemski+ 1844 L
13. Ted Williams+ 1839 L
14. Ken Griffey (40) 1836 L
15. Rafael Palmeiro 1835 L
16. Dave Winfield+ 1833 R
17. Manny Ramirez (38) 1827 R
Al Simmons+ 1827 R
19. Frank Robinson+ 1812 R
20. Alex Rodriguez (34) 1794 R
21. Honus Wagner+ 1733 R
22. Frank Thomas 1704 R
23. Reggie Jackson+ 1702 L
24. Cal Ripken+ 1695 R
25. Gary Sheffield 1676 R
26. Sammy Sosa 1667 R
27. Tony Perez+ 1652 R
28. Ernie Banks+ 1636 R
29. Harold Baines 1628 L
30. Goose Goslin+ 1609 L
31. Nap Lajoie+ 1599 R
Jim Thome (39) 1599 L
33. George Brett+ 1595 L
Mike Schmidt+ 1595 R
35. Andre Dawson+ 1591 R
36. Rogers Hornsby+ 1584 R
Harmon Killebrew+ 1584 R
38. Al Kaline+ 1583 R
39. Jake Beckley+ 1578 L
40. Willie McCovey+ 1555 L
41. Fred McGriff 1550 L
42. Willie Stargell+ 1540 L
43. Harry Heilmann+ 1539 R
44. Joe DiMaggio+ 1537 R
45. Jeff Bagwell 1529 R
Tris Speaker+ 1529 L
47. Sam Crawford+ 1525 L
48. Jeff Kent 1518 R
49. Carlos Delgado 1512 L
50. Mickey Mantle+ 1509 B
5:43 AM Aug 9th
 
BillGray
By your reorganization method then Baines's numbers could make him a serious Hall of Fame candidate but if you have the time try reorganizing the numbers of everyone in the Hall of Fame (defense, too) and see if Baines's reorg'd stats still support your point. I don't think they will. Also (here it comes) should any player - regardless of homogenized offensive stats - get within shouting distance of Cooperstown if he couldn't play more than a few years for any major league team? Baines became an AL only player before he was age 30. No NL team could afford to keep him on a roster as a pinch hitter from his early 30s on. While Baines's real offensive stats are a bit better than Perez's, Perez played defense every year of his 22 career and in both leagues. Baines was essentially a DH by age 28 and he played defense just twice from age 34 to 42. You'd have to assume that without the DH Baines would be unwanted by all major league teams after about a ten year career and he'd be out of the majors by age 34, if not sooner. Granted, he didn't make the rules and he continued to perform as a hitter for most of the last 14 years of his 22 year career. Baines hit (I think) 211 of his 384 career homers from age 30 on, but he played only 54 games on defense over that same span. From ages 34-42 he played the field just twice. Harold Baines hit well for a long time and I believe that given better health Baines could have posted numbers similar to those your study projects. I'll say YES to the Hall of Fame based on your study and NO based on Baines's actual offensive production and inability to contribute on defense for more than half of his career. Baines undoubtedly derived a greater career benefit from the DH position than any player ever has.
4:05 PM Jul 9th
 
donmalcolm
Bill: nice idea, but there is no way that anyone is going to be keeping Harold on their team in 1998-2003 with that type of production. The offensive levels simply preclude it.

What you're left with is an argument that hinges on an extended "peak performance" over the first eleven years of the career--1980 to 1990--solidified by one really good late-career season (1995). And 1989--where the numbers you create give him the league lead in OPS, HRs and RBI (the latter by a wide margin)--just seems like too much of an outlier. Harold just never really came close to doing any of that.

But--in 1990, this version of Harold would have had a lifetime BA of .309 with 1028 RBI in 11 seasons, with 7 100+ RBI seasons. That perception would probably parallel the BBWAA thinking re: Rice.

How many guys with 11 100+ RBI seasons are NOT in the HoF??


12:43 AM Jul 9th
 
stevebogus
Charles:

The "platoon player" label suggests, as you stated, that a player was unable to hit lefties (or righties if batting righthanded). While Baines may have been used in a platoon role some of the time I still maintain he was not truly a platoon player. Going back to Rusty's first post, I believe the kinda-sorta platoon role he was used in after 1989 was due to his weak knees rather that a weak bat. I don't think his managers were particularly worried about Baines facing lefthanders.
3:43 PM Jul 8th
 
CharlesSaeger
Steve: Not playing against lefties but playing against righties is a platoon player, regardless of his actual split. Likewise, Andy Van Slyke and Von Hayes, two contemporaries, were not platoon players, even though they had big platoon splits. (Alright, Van Slyke was most of the time he played for Whitey.)
11:49 AM Jul 8th
 
stevebogus
Baines wasn't really a platoon player. He had a rather normal platoon differential over the course of his career.

What happened, I think, was once his knees wouldn't let him play every day his managers would look for ways to rest him without hurting the team much. They weren't going to sit him against righthanded piching if they could avoid it. But vs. a lefthanded starter they probably had a righthanded hitter on the bench who could use some at-bats. That hitter didn't have to be the equal of Baines, since any slightly above average hitter with the platoon advantage is going to be able to match or beat a good hitter without the platoon advantage. Baines still got at-bats against lefties, he just wasn't getting 150-200 ABs a season vs. them after 1989. His managers decided to give about 100 ABs a season to somebody else while Harold rested his legs. In the 1990s Baines was 199 for 735 vs. lefthanders, a .271 average.

Baines was regarded as a good rightfielder. Total Zone indicates he was a little above average in rightfield through 1986. Late in the 1986 season he suffered a knee injury that required surgery, and Harold was shifted to DH in 1987 because he could no longer run well. He enventually had several knee operations. I think it is fair to say his knee problems cost him the Hall of Fame. He would have remained an outfielder until he got old and slow, and would have about 1000 more ABs for his career. He would have passed 3100 hits and 400 HRs.

I'm not arguing that he should be in the Hall of Fame. There are countless other athletes who had Hall of Fame talent but got hurt. You get in based on what you were able to accomplish, not what you might have done.
7:32 PM Jul 7th
 
CharlesSaeger
Corey: those big years will lead to pennants. A measure of greatness is to get that flag to fly.

Bill: it's not the platoon split, but that Baines was platooned after 1989. To put it another way, Baines started 32-55 games against lefties each year from 1982 to 1989. After that, his high was 17 starts against lefties. It's an essential part of the shape of Baines's career. It may have been a wrong perception, but his managers perceived him as being unable to hit lefties.

The Perez defense is a distraction. The issue is not that Perez had defensive value -- he's at the tail end of my memory, so someone who remembers him better while playing can tell me more about his fielding rep -- but that Baines, whom I saw play many times, had no defensive value. He was almost nothing but a DH after 1986. Come to think of it, I saw him bat many times, but never saw him play the field.
12:15 PM Jul 6th
 
wdr1946
Without the "magical" milestone of 3000 hits, Baines would have had to
have some other very good things going for him- an MVP award or near miss,
high visibility on a pennant winner, a monster season, or something like
that. Sadly, he doesn't, although he probably deserves to go into the Hall.
With 3000 hits, I imagine he would have been elected on the 3rd or 4th ballot.
8:11 AM Jul 6th
 
Steven Goldleaf
isn't Baines the poster-child for all the HOF candidates with lengthy but not especially distinguished careers who will be flooding the market now that careers are longer? To me, it's all about peak seasons. If Roger Maris had a few more monster years, which we could do by combining a few of his so-so HR years into Sosa HR years, but leaving him with the same career total, wouldn't that make him a monster HoF candidate? And if a frog had wings, would it bump its ass so much?
5:59 PM Jul 5th
 
benhurwitz
I strongly advise everyone to read last year's Onion article, "Derek Jeter Honored For Having Fewer Hits Than Harold Baines".
3:16 PM Jul 5th
 
Trailbzr
Harold Baines is one of a LOT of players whose careers ended up right around 300 WinShares, as are Ken Singleton, Buddy Bell, Keith Hernandez, Dale Murphy and Jack Clark. The development of Loss Shares could help crystalize some of the discussion.
12:33 PM Jul 5th
 
bjames
1) Baines had a career platoon differential of 80 points OPS with a career OPS of .820; Perez had a differential of 78 points OPS with a career OPS of .804. The same.

2) Saying that Perez played 1B and 3B for a great team is debatable. The Reds' record with Perez at third base was not all that good, although they did win one pennant with him there (1970). He led the NL in errors at third in '68, '69 and '70, and was moved off of third base after he and the Reds both had sub-par seasons in 1971.

3) I do agree that in a Win Shares/Loss Shares analysis, Perez would probably come out ahead.
11:33 AM Jul 5th
 
jbdominicano
What you're telling us is that sometimes well packaged numbers will make a HOF.
For example, you were answering something a few days ago about Mike Mussina. He decided not to keep himself around, just looking for his 300th win, but... by deciding that way, he could be risking his chances to make the Hall of Fame. I mean, look at Tommy John, Bert Blyleven or Jim Kaat. They weren't lucky enough to get that 300 win; they got close, but they didn't. Thus, they are not in the HOF; in contrast to them, Phil Niekro and Don Sutton got that 300, that magic number. The result? They're in the HOF. Does that mean that they deserved the HOF more than John, Blyleven or Kaat? I don't think so, they just got "The Magic Number". Mussina didn't. So his road to HOF could be more difficult than it could be if he stayed around some years trying to get that 300th win. It's fair? It's not? I'm not the one with the final say. The only thing I can say is: "That's the way it is".
10:22 AM Jul 5th
 
hotstatrat
I disagree with the original Rusty. Staying healthy is a talent just as being able to smoke right-handed pitchers is a talent. In fact, I would rather have a player who can be relied upon to be a platoon partner than a player who misses chunks of games due to injuries. It is much more difficult for a team to work around unpredictable games missed.
9:18 AM Jul 5th
 
rpriske
I already think Harold Baines should be in the Hall of Fame, but I happen to think that playing very well for a long time is a better reason to be in than someone who spikes higher, but for a shorter span.
8:48 AM Jul 5th
 
tigerlily
Bill, that was a fun piece. I have several comments, as follows: 1) I think I'd still take the real Perez (1B-3B for an all time great team) before the modified Baines (DH-RF for teams that were rarely in a pennant race)for the Hall, 2) I suspect the modified Baines would have been more valuable to his teams and therefore more worthy of the HOF. The 10 or so seasons of 150 games at a slightly higher production would push his team closer to a pennant (in those seasons) than the 15 or so seasons of 135-140 games at slightly less produstion; and 3) One player that has a similar career path (although pitched at a higher level) is Al Kaline (a solid HOFer). Kaline had two outstanding seasons at ages 20-21 (27-102-.340/.421/.546 & 27-128-.314/.383/.530), played at a solid though slightly lower level for a decade and bookend that with two final outstanding seasons at ages 30-31 (29-88-.288/.392/.534 & 25-78-.308/.411/.541)that look less impressive than his earlier peak due to the low run-scoring environment. In between, these two peaks he generally played 135-145 games per year with BA's between .280 & .325, HR's between 15 & 29, and RBI usually somewhere between 85 and 95. Don't get me wrong, I love Kaline and think he's a genuinely great player; however, it's somewhat surprising to me that there was never any talk at the time (that I'm aware of) or after that he either did not live up to his potential or that he could have been even greater.
7:05 AM Jul 5th
 
glkanter
And on a COMPLETELY trivial aside, is this Bill's first article about a player named 'Hal' since the abstract classic: "Hal (Morris) 2001"? (title from memory, no guarantees)
1:55 AM Jul 5th
 
glkanter
Really, what this demonstrates is that there are just too many guys in the HOF.
1:53 AM Jul 5th
 
ajmilner
I'm probably not the first guy to suggest this, but Hal's HOF chances were also hurt a bit by the strikes of 1981 and 1994. Those stoppages probably cost him a minimum of 80 games -- as he averaged a hit per game during his career, an extra 80 hits would have given him 2,946 career hits at the end of 2001. SOMEBODY would have signed him for the 2002 season and the resultant 3000-hit fanfare, which would have eventually (not first-ballot perhaps, but eventually) put him in Cooperstown...
1:45 AM Jul 5th
 
rtayatay
I can't remember... did Harold have a lot of 480 AB seasons because of injuries or because he was platooned? Being platooned because you can't hit lefties would be a different situation than if he had some nagging injuries, in my mind. In that case, he didn't play a full season because of his talent level. If he *had* played a full season, his numbers (at least the rate numbers) would not have been as great.
4:11 PM Jul 4th
 
 
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