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Dynasties

July 23, 2012

1.   The Chicago Cubs, 1880-1886

11 Points, Rank 32nd to 34th (tie)

Key Figures:  Cap Anson, Albert Spalding, King Kelly, Ned Williamson

                The first dynasty in major league baseball was built by Cap Anson and Albert Spalding in Chicago a little more than 130 years ago.    The National League—founded in 1876 from the ruins of the National Association—struggled through the late 1870s, it being unclear in that era a) whether the experiment of professional baseball would survive and thrive, and b) whether, if it did, it would be the National League that came out on top, rather than some other league.

                The man who changed that, more than anyone else, was Cap Anson.    Whereas the other National League owners and managers. . ..well, captains; managers had not exactly arisen yet.   Whereas the other National League owners and captains focused on stealing talent from one another within the league, Anson focused on "stealing"—bringing to Chicago—the best talent from the other leagues.      Other teams in the NL then began to do the same thing.  It was this process that made the National League the "major" league, and the other leagues minor.

                Since Philadelphia and New York had been kicked out of the National League for smoking during gym class, Chicago was the biggest city left in the National League, which gave them advantages in terms of a potential fan base.  When Anson was able to build the league’s best team the popularity of the game in Chicago exploded.    Backed by the financial genius of Albert Spalding, Anson was able to put together teams that won almost 80% of their games.  

                On the field they were led by King Kelly, the colorful and eccentric redhead who is sometimes described as baseball’s first superstar, Ned Williamson, a big third baseman who was probably the best athlete in baseball in that era, George Gore, a great center fielder and leadoff man, and Anson himself.  

                The Cubs won the National League in 1880 (67-17), 1881 (56-28), 1882 (55-29), 1885 (87-25) and 1886 (90-34), and were strong competitors until 1891.    They played an improvised World Championship in the mid-1880s, and I score their multi-year accomplishments at 11 points.

 

2.  What Exactly Is a Dynasty?

                The main thing we want to do with the term "dynasty" is to avoid being dragged off-course by it. The term "dynasty" is of course derived from the practice of royal dynasties, in which a son or daughter inherits the throne from his blood relatives; a dictionary definition is "a series of rulers from the same family, stock or group."    In studying history itself it is often or usually unclear when exactly a dynasty begins and when it ends.    It is quite common, in history, for a king to be overthrown, but for his grandson to organize a rebellion and seize power, thus "resuming" the dynasty (or not, depending on how you read it).   Kings through history are constantly claiming to be related to previous kings to whom they in fact have no blood relationship at all.. ..apropos which, I will tell you one of my Roman stories.   The Emperor Augustus—the greatest of Roman rulers--had a natural grandson named Agrippa Postumus, so named because his father, Agrippa, had died before he was born.   At one point Agrippa Postumus was designated as the successor to Augustus, and thus took the name Marcus Julius Caesar Agrippa Postumus, while his stepbrother, second in line for the throne, took the name Tiberius Julius Caesar.    Agrippa was actually related by blood to Julius Caesar, but Tiberius was not, or at least not to any meaningful extent; they both called themselves Julius Caesar to legitimize their claim to the throne. 

                About 9 AD Agrippa Postumus was involved in a conspiracy to assassinate the emperor, and was taken out of the line of succession and exiled to the small island of Planasia, which is near the island of Elba, where Napoleon was exiled many centuries later.    A few years later Augustus died, and about the same time Agrippa was murdered, probably on the orders of Tiberius, although no one knows for certain.

                Anyway, Agrippa had a slave named Clemens, who looked very much like him; as far as we know, he was never accused of using steroids.   After the death of Agrippa the slave Clemens escaped, and began claiming that he was in fact Agrippa—hence, the legitimate heir to the throne.   He began gathering armies to his side, but not enough of them, so he was caught and hauled before Tiberius, the step-brother of the real Agrippa, and now the emperor.     Tiberius looked him over and said, "How did you become Agrippa?", to which Clemens replied "The same way you became Caesar."  

                He was, of course, executed later in the day.

The practical definition of the term "dynasty" in sports is "a series of successful teams that represent the same franchise and have key personnel in common."   Beyond that, trying to observe too closely the meaning of the term "dynasty", as implied by other usages of the term, is just going to lead to trouble; at least it did for me, in the twenty or thirty years I was trying to think through this problem.     We will often see, for example, multiple dynasties running concurrently in the same league.   This used to bother me.  How can there be multiple "dynasties" in the same league at the same time?   Doesn’t one dynasty have to end before the next one begins?  

                Well, no, it doesn’t; it doesn’t always work that way in real history, and it doesn’t always work that way in sports history.   Dynasties overlap with one another; occasionally parallel dynasties compete for long periods of time.    This is not inconsistent with the practical definition of the term "dynasty" as it applies in sports, and it is destructive to focus on that.  

                The same with the term "great team"; what we’re really writing about here is the greatest teams in baseball history.   Don’t get hung up on the term "great".   We may describe a team as "great" when maybe we would be more comfortable describing them as "good", or even "pretty good".   These terms lack precise definition, and it interferes with our scholarly purpose to get hung up on them.     In my view and by my definition there are 37 dynasties in major league history, and if you don’t like my list and my definition, do your own. 

 

3.   The St. Louis Browns or Brown Stockings, 1885-1889

13 Points, Rank 24th to 29th

Key Figures:   Charles Comiskey, Arlie Latham, Bob Caruthers, Dave Foutz, Tip O’Neill

                The financial success of the National League invited competition from other leagues.   The first successful competitor was the American Association, the forerunner of today’s American League.  The American Association was a "down market" league that competed economically by selling beer at the games (which the National League prohibited) and playing baseball on Sundays (which was forbidden by law in most of the country, and which the National League by custom did not do.)  

                The American Association was founded in 1881; the St. Louis franchise joined them in 1882, and Charles Comiskey became the manager of the Browns in late 1883.   Comiskey was like Cap Anson in some ways, a first baseman and a Type A personality.   Both Comiskey and Anson were the sons of big, loud, dominant fathers, and grew up in that mold.

                Comiskey was smarter than Anson; not as great a player (or even close to that), not as dominant a personality, but sharper.    Comiskey invented, for example, the practice of the first baseman playing off the bag, and expecting the pitcher to cover first when the ball was hit to the right side.   Before Comiskey the first baseman guarded the bag and stayed on the base or very close to it.  

                In the mid-1880s there were ersatz World Series, really just exhibition games organized by league champions as an opportunity to sell a few more tickets.   Post-season series (and mid-season exhibition series) were common in that era.   Any two teams were likely to be pitted against one another, but when the champions of the two leagues met, they could hype it as a kind of playoff.   The National League was obviously the better league, and in 1884 the National League champion Providence team destroyed the American Association champion New York team. 

                In the 1969 Super Bowl, some of you will remember, the New York Jets, representing what most people thought of as a grossly inferior league, shocked the heavily favored Baltimore Colts.    In 1885 Comiskey’s Brown Stockings played a disputed series with Anson’s White Stockings, as they were then called; three games were won by each team, and the other game ended in a controversy, both teams claiming to have won the game.  That series was to baseball what the 1969 Super Bowl was to football.  In 1886 the teams met again, and the Browns clearly won.   

 

4.   The Accounting System, Part I

                We give teams credit for what they accomplish in a single season in the following way:

                1)  If the team wins the World Series and also wins 100 or more games during the regular season, we credit them with 6 points.

                2)  If the team wins the World Series but wins less than 100 games during the season, we credit them with 5 points.

                3)  If the team wins its league (but not the World Series) and wins 100 or more games, we credit them with 4 points.

                4)  If the team wins its league but does not win 100 or more games in the season, we credit them with 3 points.   Also, if a team wins its division and wins 100 games (but does not win the league championship) we credit them with 3 points.

                5)  If the team wins its division with less than 100 wins, we credit them with 2 points.   Also, if a team wins 100 games but does not win its league or its division, we credit them with 2 points. 

                6)  If the team wins 90 games but does not win its league or division, we credit them with1 point.   Also, if a team makes post-season play in any fashion, even without 90 wins, we credit them with one point. 

                This is just the starter kit, the Level-One accounting.    I’ve used this system before when I was working on this problem, and I like the system, but it only goes so far; there are more problems that we have to solve.    My present attempt to work on this problem has been more successful than my previous efforts because of the additional accounting practices that I’ve added, which I’ll explain in just a minute (Note 6). 

                I didn’t count the 19th "World Series" as legitimate World Series, for the obvious reason that they weren’t.    The 19th century teams would have higher scores and higher rankings in our dynasty list if we gave credit for these contests.

 

5.  The Boston Braves or Beaneaters, 1891-1893

10 Points, Rank 35th-37th

Key Figures:  Frank Selee, Kid Nichols, Herman Long, Tommy McCarthy

                The two great teams of the 1890s were the Boston Beaneaters and the Baltimore Orioles.     The Orioles are by far the more famous team, loaded and overloaded with Hall of Famers (John McGraw, Wilbert Robinson, Wee Willie Keeler, Hughie Jennings, Joe Kelley.)    In the first third of the twentieth century John McGraw and Wilbert Robinson managed the two New York teams in the National League.    They held those jobs for many years, employing others of the Old Orioles as coaches and hangers-on.  McGraw and Robinson entertained sportswriters with increasingly colorful stories about the Old Orioles.   In this way the Orioles successfully integrated themselves into the myth and legend of the game at a very deep level.   It is my view—noted many times before this—that the Beaneaters actually accomplished more on the field, and this system happens to rate the Beaneaters as an all-time great team (barely), and doesn’t rate the Orioles (barely).  

I’m fine with that, but the other answer wouldn’t necessarily be wrong, either.   With a shorter schedule the Orioles just missed 90 wins in 1894 (89-39) and 1895 (87-43).    While I don’t regard the 1880s series as legitimate cross-league competition, the 1890s league championship series certainly were legitimate league championship series, and the Orioles lost in both years (1894 and 1895), thus making those, in my accounting, 1-point seasons.    But it is entirely reasonable to argue that those should be 2- or 3-point seasons, and thus that the Orioles of the mid-1890s should be on our list of great teams.

The Boston team was led by Kid Nichols, a very small man who matched Cy Young start for start through his greatest seasons.     Cy Young and Kid Nichols both came to the majors in 1890.  Through 1898 Cy Young was 241-135, a 3.10 ERA and 1,013 strikeouts; Nichols was 276-132, a 2.97 ERA and 1,363 strikeouts.   The Orioles were a rough, brawling collection that won in part through intimidation.   The Beateaters, who invented the modern hit and run play, were a slicker, more cerebral organization.  

 

6.   The Accounting System, Part II

I explained before how we account for season’s accomplishments.   But the real question is, how do we know what seasons are counted as a part of a group?   How do we know when a dynasty begins and when it ends?  

If every dynasty ran seven years, let us say, then we could simply measure each team’s accomplishments in a seven-year window.    Unfortunately, since some dynasties come and go quickly and others linger around for decades, no such simple process will deliver acceptable answers.

We keep a running total of a team’s successes.   After each season, the team’s dynastic running score either goes up, or it goes down.    It doesn’t stay the same unless it is at zero and stays at zero.  Either the team accomplishes something in that season consistent with their being a great team, or it’s a "negative" season and their score goes down.   

   If a team has no qualifying accomplishments in a given season (ie, if they didn’t win 90 games and didn’t make post-season play), we charge a negative two points to the running total.   If they have no qualifying accomplishments and had a losing record in that season, then that’s negative three.  

When the dynastic running total goes to zero, the run is over; the dynasty or the run of good seasons that is attempting to qualify as a dynasty ends at that point.   Actually, it doesn’t end then; it ends at the point at which the last point was scored, but we don’t know for sure what that point is until the score goes to zero.   

For illustration, let’s take the Arizona Diamondbacks.   The Diamondbacks in 1999 won 100 games and won their division.   That’s a 3-point season; their previous total was zero, so that makes their running total 3.   

In 2000 the Diamondbacks finished third, at 85-77; that’s a non-qualifying season, so we charge them a negative two for that, which makes the running total one point.   

In 2001 the D’backs went 92-70 and won the World Series, one of the most exciting World Series ever.  That’s a five-point season, and that makes the running total six points.

In 2002 they won 98 games but lost in the playoffs; that’s a two-point season, and that makes the running total eight points.

In 2003 they finished third at 84-78, a non-qualifying season.   That costs them two points, and puts them at six points.

In 2004 they lost 111 games.   That costs them three points, and puts their running total at three. 

In 2005 they finished under .500 again (77-85).  That costs them another three points, which makes their running total zero, which ends the run.    Also, this was their third straight non-qualifying season, and three straight non-qualifying seasons automatically ends the run, regardless of the running score.   

The last qualifying season in this run of seasons was 2002, so the run goes from 1999 to 2002.   The highest score that the D’backs attained during that run was 8 points, so the score for the run of seasons is 8.   

It’s not quite a dynasty; they didn’t quite do enough, over a period of years, for us to consider them a dynasty.   It was a good team, with Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling as the two best pitchers in baseball two years in a row, with Luis Gonzalez and Steve Finley and Matt Williams having some good seasons with the bat.    They won 100 games one year, won 98 another year, won the World Series a third year; that’s a good team.   It doesn’t quite qualify for our list.  

This "dynastic running score" process is the essence of our system, because it is these running score rules that determine when a dynasty begins and when it ends.    That’s the key to it; the dynasty ends when you go to zero or when you have three consecutive non-qualifying seasons.   

At the end of each season, most of the teams in baseball have a running score of zero.   Most teams are not great teams; most teams at any moment are not in the middle of a dynasty. 

Dynasties (the teams on our list) almost always end with three consecutive non-qualifying seasons.    I don’t believe there is an exception in baseball history; in other words, I don’t think any dynasty has ever ended by "zeroing out".   I think they have all ended with three consecutive unsuccessful seasons.  But attempts to build dynasties almost always end when the score goes back to zero.    Teams pull something together, they win a division, maybe win a World Championship; they have a score of three or five or seven.   Then they don’t win anything for two or three years, their running score goes back to zero, and that effort to construct a dynasty is over.  

 

7.  The Pittsburgh Pirates, 1900-1912

19 Points, Tied on our List as the 14th-15th greatest team of all time

Key Figures:  Honus Wagner, Fred Clarke, Deacon Phillippe and Sam Leever.

The "Pirates", as I suspect most of you know, became the Pirates by stealing the best players from the Louisville team.    In 1898 Pittsburgh went 72-76, Louisville 70-81; in 1899 Pittsburgh went 76-73; Louisville 75-77.    Neither team was great, but they had about a half a team each.   Pittsburgh had Ginger Beaumont, Jimmy Williams, Jesse Tannehill, Sam Leever and Jack Chesbro; Louisville had Honus Wagner, Fred Clarke, Chief Zimmer, Deacon Phillippe and Rube Waddell.   The two teams had several investors in common, people who owned parts of both teams.    After the 1899 season the Louisville team was folded, and the two teams merged into one.   Pittsburgh "pirated" the Louisville roster, taking three Hall of Famers.   

The combined team went 79-60 in 1900, second place, but earned a dynasty point because the National League was still using a post-season series to decide its championship, and the Pirates were one of the two teams.    The Pittsburgh/Louisville combo team won the National League in 1901 (90-49), 1902 (103-36) and 1903 (91-49), and continued to play brilliant baseball for nine years after that, winning the World Championship in 1909. 

 

8.   What is the Standard of a Dynasty

Well, let’s start by asking what isn’t a dynasty?

The Pittsburgh Pirates won 90 games in 1924 (1 point), and won the World Championship in 1925 (5 points, Running Score, 6).  They finished third in 1926 (-2, running score 4), but then won the National League in 1927, having the honor of being demolished by the 1927 Yankees in the World Series (3 points, running score 7).    But then they didn’t do anything after that, and the run of seasons ended at 7 points.

Is that a dynasty, two league championships in a three-year span?   I think most of us could agree that it is not.    Seven points is not a dynasty.

A harder example, just because they are so famous, is the Black Sox, the White Sox of 1917-1920.   The White Sox won 93 games in 1915 (1 point), but then didn’t do anything in 1916, which re-sets them to zero.    In 1917 they won 100 games and won the World Series, a 6-point season, but then in 1918, with Joe Jackson and some other guys in World War I, they finished under .500, which is -3, which puts them back to 3 points.   In 1919 they won their league but lost the World Series (duh), which is +3, so they’re back to 6 points.   In 1920 they won 96 games and were in position to win the American League again before all of their best players were suspended due to the gambling scandal, so that’s +1, and the running score is +7.  After that they had several unproductive seasons, so their final total is 7.

They’re like the Pirates of the twenties:   one World Championship, one other appearance in the World Series, and a 90-win season.   It’s not enough.   The attention given to that team because of their throwing the World Series has exaggerated their significance, but on the basis of what they actually accomplished, they’re really no different than the 1924-1927 Pirates. 

Let’s take the Red Sox of 1903-1904.   The Red Sox won the World Series in 1903 (5 points), and won the American League again in 1904 (3 points).   That’s 8 points, but then they didn’t do anything after 1904, so they stuck at 8 points.   Is that a "dynasty"?

I think most of you would agree that it is not.   Three good seasons, maybe that can be considered a dynasty, depending on how good they are, but two years. ..no.    We drew the line at ten points.   In theory, you could reach ten in a two-year sprint with no other good seasons around two consecutive World Championships, but no team has ever done that.   The shortest dynasties in history are three seasons.

The Ty Cobb Tigers won the American League in 1907, 1908 and 1909, three points each season, but lost the World Series all three years.   That’s 9 points.   Is that a "dynasty", or not?

It’s a tough call, but this is the way the system calls it.   If the Tigers had won 100 games in 1909, rather than 98 games, that would put them at 10 points, and then they would be on our list.  If they had won a World Series, they would be on our list.  If they had won 90 games in the year before or the year after their three-season run (1906 or 1910) that would put them at 10 points, but they were under .500 in 1906 and won only 86 games in 1910, finishing third.   We have to draw a line somewhere; no matter where we draw that line, somebody will just barely miss.  

Somebody, usually the Tigers.   The Tigers won 101 games in 1934; although they lost in the World Series that’s still four points.    They won the World Series in 1935, which is five points, which puts them at 9—but then they did nothing in 1936, 1937 and 1938, which meant that 1935 was the end for that team.  The Tigers got close again in the 1960s (8 points) and again in the 1980s, but they never got there

Our definition of a dynasty is:   A Running Score of at least ten at some point in a series of successful seasons. 

 

9.   The Chicago Cubs, 1904-1912

25 Points, 7th place

Key Figures:   Three Finger Brown and Tinker, Evers and Chance

                Cap Anson was a great manager until about 1885, but after the mid-1880s he was losing a step, and by the late 1890s the Cubs were struggling.   After the Cubs had waded through four seasons with make-do managers the Boston Beaneaters fired Frank Selee, who had built the great Boston team ten years earlier, and the Cubs hired him.

                Selee brought a lot of young kids into camp, and did a great job of sorting through them.   The roster rules were looser; a major league team could buy up a dozen minor league shortstops over the winter and bring them into camp, see what they had.   Selee did a great job of sorting through the candidates, found Joe Tinker to play short, Johnny Evers to play second base.   He took Frank Chance, a part-time catcher, part-time outfielder, and made him a full-time first baseman.  He made a trade with St. Louis, got Mordecai Brown.   By 1904 the Cubs won 93 games, launching a string of brilliant seasons.

                Selee developed tuberculosis, a major health scourge of that time; modern environmentalists wouldn’t believe how filthy the air in Chicago was at that time.     The pollutants in the Chicago air at that time were probably hundreds of times denser than in any modern city.   Anyway, Selee had to leave the team because of his health, and the Cubs were turned over to Chance.

                I’ve written about this team many times, and I will assume that you know that litany.   Over any span of years—one year, two years, three years, four years. ..any span of years up to about fifteen—this team won more games and had a higher winning percentage than any other team in baseball history.   They were a phenomenal team, winning 116 games (116-36), 107 games (107-45), 99 games, 104 games, 104 again.     They won games with significantly more consistency than the Yankees of Ruth and Gehrig—or any other team.

                What keeps them from being considered the greatest dynasty of all time is simply duration.   The Yankees were able to replace Ruth and Gehrig with DiMaggio and Dickey and keep rolling.    The Cubs weren’t able to do that; when Tinker, Evers and Chance were done, the organization fell into a period of doldrums.   But for ten years or so, they were perhaps the most dominant baseball team of all time. 

 

10.  The Leaderboards

                Let’s look at what we have so far:

Rank

City

Team

Lg

First

Last

Points

1

 

 

 

 

 

 

2

 

 

 

 

 

 

3

 

 

 

 

 

 

4

 

 

 

 

 

 

5

 

 

 

 

 

 

6

 

 

 

 

 

 

7

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1904

1912

25

8

 

 

 

 

 

 

9

 

 

 

 

 

 

9

 

 

 

 

 

 

9

 

 

 

 

 

 

12

 

 

 

 

 

 

12

 

 

 

 

 

 

14

Pittsburgh

Pirates

NL

1900

1912

19

14

 

 

 

 

 

 

16

 

 

 

 

 

 

17

 

 

 

 

 

 

18

 

 

 

 

 

 

18

 

 

 

 

 

 

18

 

 

 

 

 

 

21

 

 

 

 

 

 

21

 

 

 

 

 

 

21

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

St. Louis

Browns

AA

1885

1889

13

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

30

 

 

 

 

 

 

30

 

 

 

 

 

 

32

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1880

1886

11

32

 

 

 

 

 

 

32

 

 

 

 

 

 

35

Boston

Braves

NL

1891

1893

10

35

 

 

 

 

 

 

35

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

11.  The New York Giants, 1904-1913

22 Points, Tied for 9th-11th

Key Figures:  John McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Iron Man McGinnity, Roger Bresnahan              

                John McGraw, a star in the National League, cast his lot with the American League when the American League started in 1901.   He had an unhappy experience in the American League, became severely disillusioned with the league—actually, angry and bitter toward them—and returned to the National League as manager of the New York Giants in mid-season, 1902.

                The Giants in the late 1890s had been run by one of those nut case owners who pops up in all sports and runs his team into the ground.   The nut case owner, Andrew Freedman, sold his interests in the team, or most of them, to one of his partners, Indianapolis businessman John T. Brush, and Brush began to restore the fortunes of the team.

                The National League divided into three great teams—the Pirates, Cubs and Giants—and five teams that were just hopelessly outgunned.   There is no other league in baseball history that has three great teams so perfectly aligned, going head-to-head with one another for a period of almost a decade.   This led to the famous pennant race of 1908, but it also meant that the top three teams in the National League were Chicago-New York-Pittsburgh, in one order or another, from 1904 through 1912, with minor exceptions.   This lack of competitiveness probably weakened the National League, and led to the subsequent domination of the game (in the teens) by the American League franchises.  

 

12.   The Philadelphia Athletics, 1909-1914

(The $100,000 Infield)

22 Points, Tied for 9th-11th

Key Figures:   Connie Mack, Eddie Collins, Home Run Baker, Rube Waddell, Eddie Plank

                The National League in the 1890s was a very rowdy league, with many on-field fights and abusive behavior from the fans.    When Ban Johnson launched the American League in 1901, one of his key points of emphasis was that the league would not tolerate on-field misconduct.    That was one of the things that John McGraw, who was a bit of a hellion, did not like about the American League; only one of the things, but that was one of them.

                The policy was copacetic, on the other hand, for Connie Mack.   Mack--not an immensely wealthy man—was a quiet, dignified man who did not approve of unruly behavior by his men.   He liked college players, and built his team by signing the best players from the eastern colleges.   

                From 1909 to 1914, with great pitching and an infield of two Hall of Famers and two other very good players, Mack’s gentlemen won 95 games, 102 games, 101, 90, 96 and 99.   They won the World Series in 1910, 1911 and 1913.    In 1914 there was an effort to start a rival league, the Federal League.    The Federal League was luring players away from the established leagues, thus inflating salaries.   Unable to meet the salary demands of his stars, Mack sold them to other American League teams.    It was in his self-interest to do this.   Had the stars left for the Federal League, the American League might have collapsed as the American Association had collapsed twenty years earlier, and this would have destroyed the value of Mack’s franchise.    By keeping his ex-players in the American League, Mack was protecting the value of his franchise.  

 

13.   The Boston Red Sox, 1912-1918

22 Points, Tied for 9th-13th

Key Figures; Tris Speaker, Babe Ruth, Smokey Joe Wood, Carl Mays, Harry Hooper

                In 1912 Smokey Joe Wood went 34-5 with a 1.91 ERA—and was not the best player on his team.   Wood finished fifth in the MVP voting, won by Tris Speaker—and my analysis agrees that Speaker was more valuable than Wood.

                That team won 105 games and the World Series in 1912, but over the following two seasons the team was bitterly divided between Catholics and Protestants.     The team was half Catholic, half Protestant, and the two sides hated each other, not unlike the class division that wrecked the Chicago White Sox at the end of the decade.     The team finished fourth in 1913, won 91 games but finished second in 1914.

                It is difficult to explain now, but America at that time was a divided nation, in danger of falling into a Civil War.   America was divided between North and South, between Rich and Poor, Radicals and Conservatives, and these divisions show up in everything you read about that era, Crime or Baseball or Politics.   The Crime rate was growing rapidly.  Baseball was divided between "clean" players and crooks.   It was an angry, hostile era.

                In 1915 Tris Speaker was demanding more money, feuding with his manager (a Catholic), and generally being a pain in the ass.  Like his rival, Ty Cobb, Speaker was an enormously intelligent man, and compared to Cobb he was easy to get along with.   Compared to anybody else, not so much.    The Red Sox tried to trade Speaker for Cobb, but that fell through. Speaker was traded to Cleveland, and the Red Sox covered some of the talent gap by picking up a couple of players from Connie Mack’s fire sale.   The Red Sox won 101 games and won the World Series in 1915, won the World Series again in 1916, won 90 games in 1917, and won the series again in 1918.  

                And then, as you know, they systematically sold off all and traded away all of their best players.    You know Lenin’s dictum that when the last capitalist was hung, somebody would be there to sell them the rope?   The Red Sox sold the Yankees the stones with which the next dynasty was built.  

 

14.   The New York Yankees, 1920 to 1943

60 Points, The #2 Dynasty of all Time

Key Figures:   Ruth, Gehrig, Joe McCarthy, Joe DiMaggio, Red Ruffing, Lefty Gomez

                The key question about the Yankees in the years 1920 to 1964 is whether they should be considered as one Dynasty, or as two teams, or three, or four.    There are at least five recognizable eras to this epoch:  the pre-Joe McCarthy, pre-Gehrig team of 1920-1923, the Gehrig-Ruth team of 1926-1933, the Joe DiMaggio team of 1936-1947, the Casey Stengel/Mickey Mantle team of 1949-1960, and the Ralph Houk coda to the Stengel era (1961-1964).

                If we were to break these down into five different teams and say that, because it is five different teams, no one of them is a truly great dynasty, in my view that would be silly.   The pieces overlap, and the success was continuous.    Lou Gehrig played alongside DiMaggio for three glorious seasons, Joe McCarthy managed Ruth for years and DiMaggio for years, Stengel managed DiMaggio for three years, Rizzuto played years for McCarthy and years for Stengel, Mantle played years for Ralph Houk, Roger Maris won an MVP Award for Stengel and one for Houk, Whitey Ford pitched most of his career for Stengel and had his best years under Houk.   

                The rules that I established—rules that work extremely well at drawing lines for almost all other teams—say that when a team has no significant accomplishments in a three-year period, that team is done, that dynasty is over, and whatever happens after that is a new beginning.   The Yankees did nothing in 1944, 1945 and 1946, and, by the rules that I’m using for everybody else, that’s the end of that era.   1920-1943 is one era; 1947-1964 is another one.    I’m not saying this is the right answer necessarily, but that’s the answer my method gives me, and that’s the answer that I’m going to go with.  

 

15.   Leaderboard

 

                Let’s update the leader board:

 

Rank

City

Team

Lg

First

Last

Points

1

 

 

 

 

 

 

2

New York

Yankees

AL

1920

1943

60

3

 

 

 

 

 

 

4

 

 

 

 

 

 

5

 

 

 

 

 

 

6

 

 

 

 

 

 

7

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1904

1912

25

8

 

 

 

 

 

 

9

New York

Giants

NL

1904

1913

22

9

Philadelphia

Athletics

AL

1909

1914

22

9

Boston

Red Sox

AL

1912

1918

22

12

 

 

 

 

 

 

12

 

 

 

 

 

 

14

Pittsburgh

Pirates

NL

1900

1912

19

14

 

 

 

 

 

 

16

 

 

 

 

 

 

17

 

 

 

 

 

 

18

 

 

 

 

 

 

18

 

 

 

 

 

 

18

 

 

 

 

 

 

21

 

 

 

 

 

 

21

 

 

 

 

 

 

21

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

St. Louis

Browns

AA

1885

1889

13

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

30

 

 

 

 

 

 

30

 

 

 

 

 

 

32

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1880

1886

11

32

           

32

 

 

 

 

 

 

35

Boston

Braves

NL

1891

1893

10

35

 

 

 

 

 

 

35

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

16.  New York Giants, 1921-1928

16 Points, Tied for 18th All-Time

Key Figures; John McGraw, Frankie Frisch, George Kelly, Bill Terry, Travis Jackson

                As is true of the Yankees, the New York Giants under John McGraw had so much success for so long that it is difficult to draw a line, and say where one dynasty leaves off and another begins.    The Giants, however, had no significant success between 1914 and 1916, three years, which marks the end of the Christy Mathewson dynasty as 1913.   They did win the National League in 1917 (3 points), but that merely makes their running total 3 points, and then they didn’t do anything from 1918 to 1920, so they were zeroed out again by 1919.  The 1917 team is an island, not a part of the dynasty on either side.    I think it has to be that way; I don’t think you can make an argument that a seven-year span with one good team is a continuous pathway between two great teams.  

                The 1917 Giants’ team, frankly, is riddled with crooks.   John McGraw was a genuinely great manager, but if you ask why the Giants didn’t win more in the late teens, the most obvious answer is that

                a)  New York was the center of the gambling industry, as it is the center of most financial industries,

                b)  John McGraw, who liked to gamble. ..well, liked to gamble a lot. . ..had a blind spot with regard to having players on his team who hung out with gamblers, and

                c)  His team in the late teens virtually became a hospice for aging crooks.  

                The 1920s Giants are curiously short of genuinely great players—curiously, because most of the team in in the Hall of Fame, including several of the worst Hall of Famers of all time.  The only players on the team who should be in the Hall of Fame are Frisch and perhaps Bill Terry; yes, I said "perhaps".   The team doesn’t really have many great players, but McGraw had financial advantages from playing in New York, plus he was ahead of the curve on two key strategies:  platooning, and the use of his entire pitching staff (rather than asking one or two key pitchers to carry the load, as most other managers were doing.)   Leading the league in Saves almost every year, the Giants won the World Series in 1921 and 1922, lost the World Series in 1923 and 1924, won 92 games in 1927, and won 93 games in 1928.   The 1927-1928 teams just keep the "dynasty" technically alive; their score peaked at 16 in 1924.

                Frisch was like McGraw—a hothead who was inclined from birth to believe that he was smarter than everybody else.    Eventually Frisch and McGraw couldn’t work together any more, and Frisch was traded to St. Louis.  

 

17.  St. Louis Cardinals, 1927-1935

(The Gas House Gang)

17 Points, Tied for 17th All-Time

Key Figures:   Branch Rickey, Frankie Frisch, Dizzy Dean, Pepper Martin

                As the trade of Babe Ruth moved the power in the American League from Boston to New York, the trade of Frankie Frisch for the fading, irascible Rogers Hornsby moved the power in the National League from New York to St. Louis. 

                The term "Gas House Gang" wasn’t really applied to the Cardinals until the 1930s, but we’ll use it to cover the entire era.     Branch Rickey managed the St. Louis Cardinals from 1919 into early 1925, and was a modestly successful manager, but quit that job because he realized that he could have more impact by running the organization than by managing the team.    This is a seminal moment.   Being The Manager was the glory job in baseball, the job everybody wanted.   The Manager called the shots, told the club who to sign, who to trade for; the manager for most teams actually negotiated the trades at that time.   

                Rickey’s insight was that this was two jobs—managing, and making the talent decisions.   He was OK at the former job; he was the greatest ever at the latter.    Within a couple of years he had turned the Cardinal organization—a down-and-out organization for 30 years—into a machine, cranking players out of their farm system as if they had a plastic mold.    The 1926 World Championship was kind of a fluke.   The Cardinals backed into that one when the Pirates, National League Champions in 1925 and 1927, had a nasty mid-season clubhouse melt-down.    

                The Cardinals, however, were getting 5% stronger every year.  They won 92 games in 1927, finishing second, won 95 games in 1928, winning the pennant, won the pennant again in 1930, won the pennant and the World Series in 1931, won the World Series again in 1934, and won 96 games in 1935.   Rickey had dozens of professional scouts out scouring the boondocks for raw players.    By the mid-1930s his team was loaded with backwoods wonders like Dizzy and Paul Dean, Pepper Martin, Ripper Collins, Joe Medwick and Wild Bill Hallahan. 

                The Cardinals caught a break in 1930 when the Cubs, who were on the cusp of developing into a strong dynastic competitor, let their great manager Joe McCarthy get away from them.   McCarthy had built the Cubs to the edge of greatness—and had they kept him, it might well have been the Cubs who dominated the National League in the 1930s.  

                The Cardinal machine threw a gear after 1935 because their manager was an idiot.   I don’t mean that literally; their manager, Frankie Frisch, was a very bright guy.   But he was the world’s biggest know-it-all, and he had the constitutional problem of know-it-alls:  the inability to learn from experience.    Between 1935 and 1938 Frisch took a 96-win team, added two Hall of Famers out of the farm system (Johnny Mize and Enos Slaughter), and won 71 games.    The team jumped back into the pennant race as soon as they fired Frisch.  

 

18.   The Philadelphia Athletics, 1927-1932

(Connie Mack’s second great team)

19 Points, Tied for 14th-15th among dynasties

Key Figures:   Connie Mack, Lefty Grove, Al Simmons, Jimmie Foxx, Mickey Cochrane

                After selling off his stars in the winter of 1914-1915 Connie Mack’s Athletics put out some of the worst teams in the history of baseball, then gradually began to rebuild.    In 1925 and 1926 they were over .500.   In 1927 they won 91 games, which nobody noticed because they were still almost twenty games behind the 1927 Yankees, but it marks 1927 as the start of their era.  

                Mack liked to bring in older players to serve as mentors to young stars, and from 1927-1929 he had the most remarkable collection of old superstars in the history of the game, including  the 41-year-old Ty Cobb, the 40-year-old Tris Speaker, the 41-year-old Eddie Collins, and the 39-year-old Zack Wheat.   In addition to that he had three superstars in their prime (Mickey Cochrane, Al Simmons and Lefty Grove) and one just emerging (Jimmie Foxx.)  

                And the rest of the team was good.   The rest of the team included players like Jimmy Dykes, Bing Miller, Mule Haas, Maxie Bishop, George Earnshaw and Rube Walberg, guys who are not in the Hall of Fame but who were not chopped liver, either.   After the 91 wins in 1927 they won 98 games in 1928, won 104 games and the World Series in 1929, won 102 games and another World Series in 1930, won 107 games but lost the World Series in 1931, and won 94 games in 1932. 

                It was the Depression, however, and the 1932 Philadelphia A’s drew only 405,000 fans.  The strong teams at that time were drawing around a million.   After 1932 Mack calculated that he could not afford to keep these players around anymore, so he once more began selling off his stars.    The dynasty lasted for only six years, but it was a killer team for the middle three.  

               

19.   New York Giants, 1933-1937

13 Points, Tied for 24th All-Time

Key Figures: Bill Terry, Carl Hubbell, Mel Ott.

                John McGraw retired early in the 1932 season, leaving his team in the cold, sarcastic hands of Bill Terry.    He had left Terry, however, the best pitcher in baseball, Carl Hubbell, and one of the two or three best position players in baseball, in Mel Ott—clearly the best player in the National League in this era.  

                Terry put enough pieces around Hubbell and Ott to win the National League in 1933, 1936 and 1937, and to win the World Series in 1933.    Well, let’s be honest:   the Cardinals on paper were by far the best team in the National League in the mid-1930s.   Nobody else really was very good—including the Giants, who weren’t very good either except that they had two sensational players, Ott and Hubbell.    Under the circumstances, that was enough. 

                The future of baseball was written in the fall of 1937.   You have to remember:  the Giants, not the Yankees, were the team that owned New York City in the early part of the 20th century.   The Giants were the great team in New York; the Yankees were the other team.   Babe Ruth pulled the Yankees up to the same level as the Giants, but the two teams competed on a fairly even basis up through 1937.   In 1937 the Yankees drew 998,000 fans; the Giants drew 926,000 fans. 

                The two teams met in the 1936 and 1937 World Series—and the Yankees waxed them both times.     After 1937 the Yankees owned New York; the Giants were never on the same level.  And Bill Terry, God love him, was no John McGraw.    He gradually alienated almost everybody in town, and the Giants slipped a little further out of the picture every year.    

 

20.   St. Louis Cardinals, 1941-1949

23 Points, 8th All-Time

Key Figures:   Branch Rickey, Stan Musial, Enos Slaughter, Marty Marion, Billy Southworth

                Throughout the 1930s Branch Rickey was building the Cardinal farm system larger, and larger, and larger, eventually controlling or partially controlling a huge number of minor league teams.  The economics of the era were peculiar. …well, let me back off.

                I call this "magazine economics".   The economics of the paper magazine business rely on a peculiar balancing act.   Magazines get some of their income from advertising, and some of it from subscribers.   The thing is, in most cases neither one is sufficient to float the operation.  Both lines of revenue have to contribute.  

                This causes terrible problems for magazines.  At some point in their history, almost every magazine will need more money.    If they raise their subscription price, that will reduce the number of subscribers, which will reduce the advertising dollars.   If they reduce the subscription price, that might increase the circulation numbers, thus increasing advertising revenue, but on the other hand, it will reduce subscription revenue.   It’s a balancing act—a constant, endless balancing act.   If you swing too low you’ve got a pop up; if you swing too high you’ve got a ground ball, and if you hit either one of those you’re out of business.   There is a sweet spot in the middle, and if you can stay there, you’re golden—but nobody can stay there forever. 

                There are actually lots of businesses that have what I call a magazine business plan.   It’s one of my rules for investing:  Never invest in a business with a magazine business plan.    It’s a matter of time until they lose track of the sweet spot.   It’s the reason we don’t have advertising on BJOL.   I don’t want to create a balancing act.  

                Branch Rickey in the 1930s had found the sweet spot.   Minor league baseball teams in the 1930s could sometimes make a profit on their own—but when you offered to pay them a little bit of money on top of that, in order to get the right of first refusal on any young players they had control over, that was gravy to them.    Minor league operators jumped at the chance to get into bed with the St. Louis Cardinals.   Free money.  

                They were, of course, creating a balancing act for themselves, and within twenty years that balancing act would crash down around their ears, burying most of them in debt—but they didn’t know that at the time.    Free money.   The Cardinals could invest in long strings of minor league teams, keep the best players for themselves and sell off the surplus players to their competitors.   It was a sweet deal.  

                By 1940 the Cardinal farm system was ridiculously large and ridiculously productive.    If their second baseman got hurt, they had 40 minor league second basemen at their command.   Literally.   40 second basemen, and hundreds of pitchers.    They were a machine. 

                Once they fired Frankie Frisch, the machine started clicking on all cylinders.    Not putting down Billy Southworth, but. . .I’d like a chance to manage a team like this.    The Cardinal won-lost records, beginning in 1941, were 97-56, 106-48, 105-49, 105-49, 95-59, 98-58, 89-65, 85-69 and 96-58.    They won the World Series in 1942, 1944 and 1946.   

                After the 1942 season Branch Rickey, the greatest General Manager who ever lived, left the Cardinals to go to work for the Brooklyn Dodgers.    Gradually this shifted the balance of power in the National League from the Cardinals to the Dodgers.  

 

21.   Leaderboard

                Let’s update the leaderboard:

 

Rank

City

Team

Lg

First

Last

Points

1

 

 

 

 

 

 

2

New York

Yankees

AL

1920

1943

60

3

 

 

 

 

 

 

4

 

 

 

 

 

 

5

 

 

 

 

 

 

6

 

 

 

 

 

 

7

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1904

1912

25

8

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

1941

1949

23

9

New York

Giants

NL

1904

1913

22

9

Philadelphia

Athletics

AL

1909

1914

22

9

Boston

Red Sox

AL

1912

1918

22

12

 

 

 

 

 

 

12

 

 

 

 

 

 

14

Pittsburgh

Pirates

NL

1900

1912

19

14

Philadelphia

Athletics

AL

1927

1932

19

16

 

 

 

 

 

 

17

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

1926

1935

17

18

New York

Giants

NL

1921

1928

16

18

 

 

 

 

 

 

18

 

 

 

 

 

 

21

 

 

 

 

 

 

21

 

 

 

 

 

 

21

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

St. Louis

Browns

AA

1885

1889

13

24

New York

Giants

NL

1933

1937

13

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

30

 

 

 

 

 

 

30

 

 

 

 

 

 

32

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1880

1886

11

32

 

 

 

 

 

 

32

 

 

 

 

 

 

35

Boston

Braves

NL

1891

1893

10

35

 

 

 

 

 

 

35

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

22.   Brooklyn/Los Angeles Dodgers

1946-1966

28 Points, 6th All Time

Key Figures:   Walter O’Malley, Branch Rickey, Jackie Robinson, Duke Snider, Walt Alston, Sandy Koufax

 

                Here, again, we face one of the issues that troubled me for many years in thinking about dynasties:  whether to treat the Dodgers as one dynasty (1946-1966) or two (1946-1956 and 1959-1966).  

                It seems counter-intuitive to say that a string of teams perched half in New York and half   in LA is one continuous team, but that’s what my method says, anyway:  There is not enough of a breach between these two teams to regard them as two separate teams.   For a long time, I fought to find some reasonable basis to mark these down as two separate teams.

                But I think now that accepting that it is not two separate teams is really the key to understanding what this story is about.    What makes this story unique is that The Dodgers were transplanted while they were smack in the middle of one of baseball’s all-time great dynastic runs.    That’s exactly why it is such a big deal.   Many other teams have moved—when they were struggling.    Other teams have moved when they were down and out, trying to find a way to start over someplace else.    The Dodgers moved while they were, in terms of their performance on the field, on top of the world.  

                Look. ..it’s the same people.   Koufax and Drysdale and Johnny Podres were on the ’56 team in Brooklyn; they were on the ’63 team in LA.   Walt Alston managed the ’55 team in Brooklyn; he managed the ’66 team in Los Angeles.  O’Malley was there the whole time, Jr. Gilliam was there on both ends, Vin Scully was there on both ends (and is still there now),   Duke Snider and Gil Hodges played on the 1959 World Championship team—in Los Angeles.   Maury Wills was in the organization before they moved.   Tommy Davis was a Brooklyn native who signed with his hometown team, the Brooklyn Dodgers, after receiving a personal phone call from Jackie Robinson.  

                It would not be accurate to say that Branch Rickey was a people person.   He wasn’t.   He was an idea person.    People mostly didn’t take too well to him.

                But part of what made Rickey effective was that he did have very good instincts about people.  A year or so after he moved to Brooklyn, Rickey was looking for a minor league manager.   He remembered this minor league first baseman he had had with the Cardinals, Walter Alston.   Something about Walter he always liked.   He thought he would offer Walter a chance to manage in the minor leagues.  

                Rickey was able to judge, about a young player, whether he would quit when the going got tough, or whether he would fight his way through it.    The sweet spot that he had exploited so brilliantly in St. Louis had caved in, but Rickey was able to do essentially the same thing with the Negro Leagues, buying out their best talent before the other teams got on top of it.    He also did that for legitimate reasons of conscience:   He was opposed to segregation.    He figured out how to make it work for him.

                Since we haven’t done this for a while, let’s review the accounting to see why the Dodgers are credited with 28 points from 1946 to 1966.

                The Dodgers won 96 games in 1946; that’s one point.

                They won the National League in 1947; that’s 3 points, which makes their running total four. 

                In 1948 they had an unproductive season; that costs them two points, which makes their running total two.

                In 1949 they won the National League, which is worth 3 points, which brings the running total to 5.  

                In 1950—losing the pennant in the final weekend—they had an unproductive season, which knocks their running total back to 3.

                In 1951, although they blew the huge lead, the Dodgers won 97 games, which has a value of one point, which brings their running total to 4.

                In 1952 they won the National League, which gives them 3 points, which brings their total up to 7.    Through 1952, then, the Dodgers had been the class of the National League for seven seasons, but they had not yet qualified as a dynasty.

                In 1953 the Dodgers—the Boys of Summer—won the National League and won 105 games, which is worth four points, which gives them a running total of 11.   They’re now officially a dynasty.

                In 1954 they won 92 games, which is one point, which makes the running total 12.

                In 1955 they won the World Series, which is worth 5 points, which makes the running total 17.

                In 1956 they won the National League again, which is worth 3 points, which makes the running total 20.  

                In 1957—their last year in Brooklyn—the Dodgers had an unproductive season, which costs them 2 points, running total 18.

                In 1958, their first year in Los Angeles, they had a worse year, winning only 71 games and finishing in7th place.   That’s a negative 3, and that knocks the running total down to 15 points.

                The running total is now 15 points, but dynasties don’t end because the running total goes to zero.    Dynasties end because teams have three straight unproductive seasons.   If the Dodgers had not had a productive season in 1959, their dynasty would have been over, and would have ended in Brooklyn.

                The 1959 Dodgers won the World Series.   5 points.   Their running total is back to 20.

                The 1960 Dodgers won only 82 games, knocking them back two points to 18.

                The 1961 Dodgers won 89 games, just missing by one of having what we would consider a productive season, but knocking them back to 16, and placing the team once more in a position to have the dynasty declared dead if they didn’t produce in 1962.

                The 1962 Dodgers opened up a big lead in July, collapsed in September and lost in a playoff to the Giants, but they still won 102 games.  That’s two points, and that restores the running total to 18.

                The 1963 Dodgers won 99 games and the World Series, so that’s 5 points, and that puts them at 23.  

                The 1964 Dodgers finished under .500,which knocks them down 3 points, and puts them at 20.

                The 1965 Dodgers won the World Series.   That’s 5 points, and that puts them back at 25.

                The 1966 Dodgers won 95 games and won the National League, although they lost the World Series, so that’s three more points; that’s 28.

                The 1967, 1968 and 1969 Dodgers all had unproductive seasons, so that marks the end of the dynasty, which ends in 1966.   The high-water mark for that dynasty is a running total of 28, so we score them at 28 points.   The sixth-greatest dynasty in major league history. 

 

23.  The New York Yankees

1947-1964

68 points.   The Greatest Dynasty of All Time.

Key Figures:  Casey Stengel, Mickey Mantle, Yogi Berra, Whitey Ford, Roger Maris

                In terms of personnel, the 1947-1964 Yankees are no match for the Ruth and Gehrig Yankees.  The Ruth/Gehrig Yankees have a Hall of Fame catcher (Dickey), one of the greatest first basemen ever (Gehrig), two Hall of Fame second basemen (Lazzeri and Gordon), a Hall of Fame shortstop (Rizzuto), at least three Hall of Fame outfielders (Ruth, DiMaggio, and Earle Combs), and at least four Hall of Fame pitchers (Gomez, Ruffing, Pennock and Waite Hoyt.)   All the 1947-1964 Yankees have is Mantle, Berra, Ford, and the second half of Phil Rizzuto’s career.  

                But in terms of dominance on the field, the 1947-1964 team accomplished more in 18 years than the 1920-1943 team did in 24.    Ruth and Gehrig were in the Yankee lineup together for ten years, and won four pennants.    Mantle and Berra were in the Yankee lineup together for eleven years, and won nine pennants.    They dominated their league—and the other league—to a greater extent than any other team ever has.

 

 

24.  Cleveland Indians, 1948-1955

12 points, 30th All Time

Key Figures:  Bob Lemon, Bob Feller, Larry Doby, Al Rosen, Early Wynn

                Here again, it may seem counter-intuitive to designate the Indians a "dynasty" while the Yankees are winning the pennant almost every year.   Don’t get hung up on the language; they did what they did.   They won the World Series in 1948, won 90+ games in 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953 and 1955, and won 111 games (and the American League) in 1954.    The only season they didn’t win 90 games (1949), they won 89.

                The Indians, put together by Bill Veeck, were the Brooklyn Dodgers of the American League, the team that was ahead of the curve on the issue of race.   The only real difference between the Indians and the Dodgers, 1948-1955, was that the Indians had the Yankees in their league, rather than waiting for them at the end of the road.

 

25.   The Milwaukee Braves, 1956-1961

9 points, failed to achieve the status of a dynasty

Key Figures:   Hank Aaron, Warren Spahn, Eddie Mathews, Lew Burdette, Del Crandall, several absolutely horrible managers.

                No team in history ever wasted a greater opportunity than the Milwaukee Braves.    They had talent coming out of their ears…Bob Buhl, Joe Adcock, Johnny Logan, Bill Bruton, Wes Covington.  

                On July 26, 1956, the Braves were 5 and a half games in first place in the National League.     They lost that pennant race by one game; that came out as a one-point season.

                In 1957 they won the World Series, 5 points, giving them 6.

                In 1958 they won the National League, 3 points, giving them 9.   One point away from being on our list.

                In 1959, with two 21-game winners and the two best hitters in the National League (Aaron and Mathews), they finished in a tie with the Dodgers at 86-68, lost the playoff, and had a wasted season.   -2 points, running total, 7.   There has never in the history of baseball been a team that good beaten in a pennant race by a team as weak as the 1959 Dodgers.

                In 1960 they won 88 games, finished second once again; -2, running total 5.   They finished second to the Pirates.   They should have beaten the Pirates by ten games.   

                After the 1960 season they traded Joey Jay and Juan Pizarro to the Cincinnati Reds for a 30-year-old shortstop with a career OPS (at the time of the trade) of .652.     (His end-of-career OPS was .635.)   Jay went 21-10 for the Reds; Pizarro, flipped to the White Sox, went 14-7.   The Braves won 83 games, their third straight unproductive season, ending their dynastic ambitions.  

                After that the Braves started talking about moving to Atlanta, and got into a feud with their fans.    From 1953 to 1958 the Braves had drawn an average of more than two millions fans a season, the best attendance in baseball.   In 1965 they drew 556,000.

 

26.  St. Louis Cardinals, 1963-1968

10 points, tied for 36th All Time

 

Key Figures;  Bob Gibson, Lou Brock, Curt Flood, Orlando Cepeda

                The Yankees and Dodgers stayed on top of their leagues for so long, from the late 1940s into the 1960s, that there was limited space for any other dynasties to emerge.   The Braves obviously should have had a dynasty, but blew it.  

                The Giants of the 1960s are almost the same; they had a hell of a lot of talent there, and didn’t do much with it.   It left an opening.

                The 1963-1968 Cardinals barely qualify for our list.   This doesn’t seem right; it seems like they were a greater team than that, with Bill White and Kenny Boyer and some other good players.  

                As we score them:   The Cardinals in 1963 lost a thrilling pennant chase to the Dodgers, but won 93 games; that’s 1 point.   In 1964 they vaulted from fourth place to the pennant in the last two weeks, and won the World Series.   That’s 5 points, running total of 6.

                In 1965, however, the Cardinals were under .500, and in 1966 they were barely over .500.   That knocks them back to a running total of 1.

                In 1967 they won 101 games and the World Series, a 6-point season that gives them a running total of 7.   In 1968 they won the National League, which puts them at ten, which qualifies them for our list. 

                In 1969 they finished fourth, and broke up their team post-season with a bunch of trades that nobody understands to this day.    The Cardinals of the 1960s were Gods of my childhood, larger-than-life heroes.    I can still recall 700 things that happened to the Cardinals in those years. ..Dick Nen’s home run, and Brock being called out at the plate in the ’68 series, and the no-hitter exchange with the Giants in September of ’68, and Gibson pitching all those shutouts, and Larry Jaster shutting out the Dodgers five times in 1966 (he threw 7 shutouts in his major league career, 5 of them against the Dodgers in one season.)     I remember a game in which the Cardinals had a big lead (or the Braves did, not certain which), and it was threatening to rain in the top of the fifth inning.   The team that was six or eight runs ahead started trying to run into an out on the basepaths, trying to make it an official game before it was stopped by rain, so the other team started deliberately refusing to record the out.    

                They were larger than life, but the facts are the facts.   As dynasties go, they were small potatoes.  

 

27.  Baltimore Orioles

1964-1983

32 Points, 5th Place All Time

Key Figures;   Earl Weaver, Brooks Robinson, Frank Robinson, Jim Palmer, Eddie Murray, Cal Ripken

 

                The difference between the St. Louis Cardinals and the Baltimore Orioles is the difference between a team that was great for five years and a team that was great for twenty years.  

                Paul Richards took over as manager of the Chicago White Sox in 1951.   The White Sox hadn’t finished over .500 in almost ten years, and hadn’t been in contention for 30 years.    Richards guided them forward with remarkable consistency:   81-73 in 1951, 81-73 again in 1952, 89-65 in 1953, and 91-54 at the time that he resigned from that position with a week left in the 1954 season. 

                He resigned to take over as manager of the Baltimore Orioles.   Compared to the Orioles, the White Sox’ history was luminous.   The Baltimore Orioles began life as the St. Louis Browns, a down-at-the-heels franchise chased out of St. Louis by the Cardinals’ success.   They had gone 54-100 in 1953 in St. Louis, and 54-100 in 1954 in Baltimore.    They had been losing 100 games more often than not for the better part of 30 years. 

                Richards delivered the same sort of steady progress in Baltimore he had shown in Chicago, guiding the team to records of 57-97, 69-85, 76-76, 74-79, 74-80, 89-65, and 95-67.     By the time Richards left Baltimore for Houston in late 1961, the Orioles had become one of the better teams in the American League.

                We don’t credit all of this to Richards.   The Orioles in the late 1950s were a forward-looking organization that invested in the farm system.   The organization came up with Brooks Robinson and, a few years later, Boog Powell.    Still, the 1964 Orioles were mostly built out of retreads and second-chance players.    The Orioles signed Hoyt Wilhelm off the scrap heap in 1958, and were able to package him with some minor leaguers and injured guys in 1962 for Luis Aparicio.    They acquired Jim Gentile in 1959 as a minor leaguer, for a player to be named later; he drove in 141 runs in 1961.  The regulars on the ’64 Orioles included players who had been given up on by other teams, like Jackie Brandt and Stu Miller, and the 37-year-old Robin Roberts, who had been released by the Phillies and then by the Yankees, but who was able to win for the Orioles.   

                For almost 20 years after that, the Orioles were consistently able to find and acquire under-valued players like Mike Cuellar, Don Buford, and Rick Dempsey.   Putting these guys together with a handful of home-grown solid players like Paul Blair, Davey Johnson and Mark Belanger and an un-ending string of crafty left-handed pitchers, the Orioles were able to stay in contention until the mid-1980s.    Of course, getting Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas didn’t hurt, and when the expansion teams passed on Jim Palmer, that was a wee bit of a break, but the fact is, they did it.   They won the World Series in 1966, 1970 and 1983, and were in the World Series in 1969, 1971 and 1979.     Pitching, defense, and three-run homers. 

 

28.   Leaderboard

                We’ve done five more teams; let’s update the chart:

Rank

City

Team

Lg

First

Last

Points

1

New York

Yankees

AL

1947

1964

68

2

New York

Yankees

AL

1920

1943

60

3

 

 

 

 

 

 

4

 

 

 

 

 

 

5

Baltimore

Orioles

AL

1964

1973

32

6

Bkn/LA

Dodgers

NL

1946

1966

28

7

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1904

1912

25

8

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

1941

1949

23

9

New York

Giants

NL

1904

1913

22

9

Philadelphia

Athletics

AL

1909

1914

22

9

Boston

Red Sox

AL

1912

1918

22

12

 

 

 

 

 

20

12

 

 

 

 

 

20

14

Pittsburgh

Pirates

NL

1900

1912

19

14

Philadelphia

Athletics

AL

1927

1932

19

16

 

 

 

 

 

18

17

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

1926

1935

17

18

New York

Giants

NL

1921

1928

16

18

 

 

 

 

 

16

18

 

 

 

 

 

16

21

 

 

 

 

 

15

21

 

 

 

 

 

15

21

 

 

 

 

 

15

24

St. Louis

Browns

AA

1885

1889

13

24

New York

Giants

NL

1933

1937

13

24

 

 

 

 

 

13

24

 

 

 

 

 

13

24

 

 

 

 

 

13

24

 

 

 

 

 

13

30

Cleveland

Indians

AL

1948

1955

12

30

 

 

 

 

 

12

32

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1880

1886

11

32

 

 

 

 

 

11

32

 

 

 

 

 

11

35

Boston

Braves

NL

1891

1893

10

35

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

1963

1968

10

35

 

 

 

 

 

10

 

 

 

29.   Cincinnati Reds, 1970-1979

(The Big Red Machine)

20 Points, tied for 12th All Time

 

Key Figures:   Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, Pete Rose, Sparky Anderson, Tony Perez

               

                You probably know the story of this team as well as I do.

 

 

 

30.   Pittsburgh Pirates, 1970-1979

(The Family)

16 Points, tied for 18th All Time.  

Key Figures:  Willie Stargell, Dave Parker, Roberto Clemente, Al Oliver

                If you’re going to have a famous dynasty with a lot of success in post-season play, my recommendation would be that you try not to do in the same league in the exact same years as the Big Red Machine.

                In terms of colorful players and colorful events, the 1970s Pirates may be the all-time champions.   There are so many things people remember about them—Steve Blass, and Doc Ellis, Roberto’s death, the hats that were adopted by some street gang, the "We-are-Fam-a-lee" blaring during the 1979 World Series.

                Manny Sanguillen hitting line drives on balls a foot out of the strike zone.

                Ed Ott slamming Felix Millan to the turf.

                Rennie Stennett going 7-for-7. 

                Omar Moreno stealing bases.

                It was a good time to be young. 

 

31.   Oakland A’s, 1971-1975

(The Moustache Brigade)

20 Points, Tied for 12th

Key Figures:   Charley Finley, Catfish Hunter, Vida Blue, Reggie Jackson, Bert Campaneris

                The A’s were only good for five years, but they were really good for five years. 

 

 

32.   Los Angeles Dodgers, 1973-1991

13 points, Tied for 24th All Time

Key Figures:  Tommy Lasorda, Steve Garvey, Fernando Valenzuela

                Lasorda’s Dodgers were the opposite of Finley’s A’s; they were never exactly dominant, but they were pretty good for a very long time.  

                The way I defined the borders of a team—when they become a dynasty and when they are no longer a dynasty—those rules work to my satisfaction 95% of the time.    Those rules, however, make it possible for a team to hang around, the dynasty never exactly being over and done with, for a very long time.   A dynasty is not done until a team zeroes out or has three consecutive unproductive seasons.   That means that as long as a team wins 90 games once every three years, they’re still "alive" as a dynasty.  

                It’s possible, but it never happens—until now.   Then, in the 1980s, it happens twice at the same time, once in each league. 

                In 1981, after they won the World Series, the Dodgers’ dynastic running score was 13 points.   That was the team that kept their infield together an impossibly long time.   I forget the details or never knew them, but I think those four infielders (Garvey, Lopes, Cey and Russell) played something like three times as many games together, as a unit, as any other infield in baseball history.  

                The Dodgers were consistently good in the 1970s, winning 102 games in 1974, playing in the World Series in 1974, 1977, 1978, 1981.   After 1981 the team sputtered on like an old Ford tractor engine that would run for 30 seconds after you turned off the switch.     The Dodgers won 91 games and their division in 1983, won the division again in 1985, won the World Championship in 1988, won 93 games in 1991—but they were under .500 in 1984, 1986, 1987 and 1989.  

                The way this system works, those "up" years keep the "dynasty" tag attached to the team—but do NOT improve the status or stature of the dynasty unless they outweigh the negative years that are mixed in.   The Dodger dynasty would rate exactly the same as it does, in my system, had they come crashing to a conclusion after the 1981 World Championship.    The tag-along seasons expand the size of the dynasty, but not the scale of their accomplishments.    We can’t give a dynasty extra credit for being good every other year.  

 

33.   Kansas City Royals, 1975-1985

15 Points, Tied for 21st All Time

Key Figures:   George Brett, Frank White, Willie Wilson, Dan Quisenberry, Whitey Herzog

                One of the things that drives me through life is that I never trust my own perceptions, my own judgments.    I see other people around me, people who trust their judgments absolutely, people who will argue for their gut instincts when I know for certain that they’re dead wrong.    My philosophy is based on the belief that our perceptions of the world around us cannot be trusted—meaning that mine cannot, either.

                I want to know:   How good was this team, really?    I rooted for this team, I lived and died with them, I went to many, many of their games and I believe in them—but how good were they really?   I don’t trust my instincts; I have to have some rational standard to compare them to other contenders.   How many teams like this are there in baseball history?   How many teams are there that have done more?    A hundred?  A dozen?

                Twenty, as it turns out.    They’re not the greatest team ever, but the 1975-1985 Royals won:

                A hundred games once (1977),

                90 or more games seven times (1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1980, 1982 and 1985),

                One World Championship (1985),

                Two League Championships (1980 and 1985),

                Six Division Championships (1976, 1977, 1978, 1980, 1984, 1985)

                And were in post-season play one other season (1981). 

                They accomplished a little bit more than Mike Schmidt’s Phillies (13 points), but not quite as much as Willie Stargell’s Pirates (16 points).   They’re in the same ballpark with those teams.   They’d like to get back to that ballpark again some day.  

 

34.  New York Yankees, 1976-1986

18 Points, 16th All Time

(The Third Yankee Dynasty)

Key Figures:   George Steinbrenner, Billy Martin, Reggie Jackson, Goose Gossage, Ron Guidry

                The Yankees are the other "sputter along" team of the 1980s.    The Third Yankee Dynasty began with a 97-win season in 1976, and the team had accomplished as much as they were going to accomplish by 1981, scoring at 18 points at that time.   But after 1981, although the team never did anything to enhance their stature, the "active dynasty" tag stays with them because they won 90+ games in 1983, 1985 and 1986.  

                The 1980s are weird.  There is an era there where there really aren’t any great pitchers, so the best pitchers are still guys like Jim Palmer and Steve Carlton and Nolan Ryan, who are left over from the 1970s and not the pitchers they once were, but still better than anybody else who has come along.    The same with teams.   Whereas the 1970s have two dominant teams in every division, the 1980s have really no dominant teams for most of the decade.   

                The Yankees were a fantastic team. . .. Graig Nettles and Willie Randolph are among the most underrated players of all time.     Mickey Rivers, Chambliss, Catfish, Sparky Lyle, Munson.   Great team.  

 

 

35.   Philadelphia Phillies, 1976-1983

13 Points, Tied for 24th All Time

Key Figures:  Mike Schmidt, Steve Carlton, Larry Bowa, Garry Maddox, Greg Luzinski

                The Phillies and Royals rank below the Pirates and Yankees of the 1970s because the Pirates and Yankees won two World Championships apiece and the Phillies and Royals won one each.   The four teams all moved on kind of parallel tracks. 

 

36.   Leaderboard

 

                We’ve added seven teams since the last update:

 

Rank

City

Team

Lg

First

Last

Points

1

New York

Yankees

AL

1947

1964

68

2

New York

Yankees

AL

1920

1943

60

3

 

 

 

 

 

 

4

 

 

 

 

 

 

5

Baltimore

Orioles

AL

1964

1973

32

6

Bkn/LA

Dodgers

NL

1946

1966

28

7

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1904

1912

25

8

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

1941

1949

23

9

New York

Giants

NL

1904

1913

22

9

Philadelphia

Athletics

AL

1909

1914

22

9

Boston

Red Sox

AL

1912

1918

22

12

Cincinnati

Reds

NL

1970

1979

20

12

Oakland

A's

AL

1971

1975

20

14

Pittsburgh

Pirates

NL

1900

1912

19

14

Philadelphia

Athletics

AL

1927

1932

19

16

New York

Yankees

AL

1976

1986

18

17

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

1926

1935

17

18

New York

Giants

NL

1921

1928

16

18

Pittsburgh

Pirates

NL

1970

1979

16

18

 

 

 

 

 

 

21

Kansas City

Royals

AL

1975

1985

15

21

 

 

 

 

 

 

21

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

St. Louis

Browns

AA

1885

1889

13

24

New York

Giants

NL

1933

1937

13

24

Los Angeles

Dodgers

NL

1973

1991

13

24

Philadelphia

Phillies

NL

1976

1983

13

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

24

 

 

 

 

 

 

30

Cleveland

Indians

AL

1948

1955

12

30

 

 

 

 

 

 

32

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1880

1886

11

32

 

 

 

 

 

 

32

 

 

 

 

 

 

35

Boston

Braves

NL

1891

1893

10

35

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

1963

1968

10

35

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

37.   New York Mets, 1984-1990

11 Points, 32nd All Time

Key Figures:   Davey Johnson, Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Howard Johnson        

                Earlier I made the point that one dynasty does not have to arise at the time that another falls; they can overlap.   However, we may note that it often happens that one dynasty arises as the previous one falls.   Look at this sequence:   The Phillies had a dynasty in this division, 1976-1983, then the Mets had one, 1984-1990, and then the Braves had one, beginning in 1991.    Those three fit together seamlessly, controlling the division for 30 years.  

                The two lines that stick in my mind about the 1980s Mets—probably both from Mike Lupica—are

                1)  It’s the only dynasty that only won once, and

                2)  Lenny Dykstra was the only player to write a biography about what he’d done before he did it. 

                Neither is literally true; there are other dynasties that only won one World Championship, and there have been other young players who wrote premature biographies.   Still, we know what is meant by these comments.   It was a team of modest accomplishments and great hype.     They won 90 games in 1984, won 98 games in 1985, won 108 games and the World Championship in 1986, won 92 games in 1987, won 100 games and won the division in 1988, won 91 games in 1990.    There are 31 teams in major league history that accomplished more, but there are hundreds that didn’t accomplish as much. 

 

 

38.   Oakland A’s, 1988-1992

(The Bash Brothers)

13 Points, 24th All Time

Key Figures:   Mark McGwire, Jose Canseco, Tony LaRussa, Dave Stewart, Dennis Eckersley

                Like all other Athletics dynasties, the 1988-1992 Oakland A’s were really good for a short period of time, five years.    The pioneers of the steroid age, the A’s were probably the best team in baseball for three years (1988-1990), but won only one World Championship.       

 

 

39.  Atlanta Braves, 1991-2005

39 points, 4th All Time

Key Figures:  Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, Chipper and Andruw Jones, Bobby Cox

                The Braves of the 1990s featured the greatest pitching staffs of all time.   Chipper retires after this season; I guess Andruw will be the last one left to tell the tale.   

                Q:   So, Andruw, what was Jeff Blauser really like, away from the ballpark?

                AJ:   You don’t want to know. 

 

40.   Toronto Blue Jays, 1991-1993

12 Points, 30th All Time

Key Figures:   Joe Carter, John Olerud, Roberto Alomar, Tom Henke

                There are only two teams on this list that have just a three-year dynastic window:   the Boston Beaneaters of 1891-1893 and the Blue Jays of 1991-1993.    The Blue Jays won two straight World Championships with a bunch of older rent-a-players, and then disappeared after the strike in ’94. 

 

41.   New York Yankees, 1994-the present

50 Points so far, 3rd All-Time

Key Figures:   Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Joe Torre, George Steinbrenner, Robinson Cano, Jorge Posada

                The third-greatest dynasty ever and the third-greatest Yankee dynasty ever, this one is still alive and working.    It will be difficult for them to catch the 1947-1964 team as the greatest of all Yankee dynasties.    They’re still 18 points away; the Big Red Machine in their entire run scored at 20.    Didn’t mean to slight A-Rod, Andy Pettitte, CC Sabathia or Bernie Williams.   It takes a lot of helpers to win as many games as this team has won.  

                The Bobby Cox dynasty (above) lasted 15 years; the Yankee dynasty of the Joe Torre era has lasted so far 18 years.   The Yankee dynasty ranks ahead of the Bobby Cox dynasty essentially because the team has had more success in post-season play.  

 

42.   Cleveland Indians, 1995-2001

16 Points, 18th All Time

Key Figures;  Albert Belle, Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Omar Vizquel, Kenny Lofton

                The Indians’ dynasty was formed when the organization produced a remarkable group of young hitters all about the same time, and broke apart after Belle was injured and Manny and Bartolo Colon left as free agents.   They scored a lot of runs. 

 

 

43.  St. Louis Cardinals 2000-2011 or to the Present

15 Points So Far, tied for 23rd Place

Key Figures:   Albert Pujols, Tony LaRussa, Chris Carpenter, Scott Rolen, Jim Edmonds

                The Cardinals of the last ten years are not a cohesive team or a cohesive story.   They have changed parts and continued to roll along.   Although 2000 to 2011 isn’t that long a period of time, the only real constants to the team have been LaRussa and Pujols, both gone now.   It seems that what has driven the team’s success is not one player or another, but the size and energy of the Cardinal fan base and the acumen of their front office, which has replaced Jim Edmonds and Larry Walker with Matt Holladay and Lance Berkman without seeming to miss a beat.  

 

44.   San Francisco Giants, 2000 to 2004

10 Points, Tied for 35th on the List

Key Figures:   Barry Bonds, Jeff Kent, Jason Schmidt

                Carried by the greatest slugging performance since Babe Ruth, if not the greatest ever, the Giants won 97 games in 2000, 90 in 2001, 95 games in 2002, 100 games in 2003, and 91 games in 2004.   I have to confess; I hadn’t really registered them as a great team in my head until doing this study, but maybe that was my oversight.   

                San Francisco is a real baseball town anymore.   It takes 40 years for that to happen; I remember being out there in ’77, a couple of times in the 80s, 1996.. ..Candlestick just seemed flat and lifeless and cold, the crowds not really into the game.   It’s not that way anymore; they’ve got a big time fan base now that is very much into the game, like the Red Sox and Cardinals and Cubs and Yankees.   It’s good to see.  

 

45.   Accounting

                Of the 30 existing franchises, 17 have at some point in their history had dynasties; 13 have not.    Of the 1961-62 expansion teams, the first four expansion teams, two have had dynastic eras (the Mets and the Angels), and two have not (the Astros and the Senators/Rangers, although the Rangers may be in the process of changing that, since they have won the American League twice in a row and have another good team this year.)   

                Of the 1969 expansion teams, the only one which has had a dynastic era is the Royals.  The Pilots/Brewers, Expos/Nationals and the Padres have not.     That’s 3 "haves"; 5 "have nots". 

                Of the six expansion teams added since 1969, the only one which has had a dynastic era was the Blue Jays.  The Mariners, Rockies, Diamondbacks, Marlins and Rays have not had periods of success sufficient to be called dynasties.    That’s 4 "haves", 10 "have nots", and that leaves the 16 "original" franchises.

                All eight of the "original" National League franchises have at some point had dynasties (noting that these are not, in fact, "original" franchises, but you know what I mean by the term.)    All of them except the Reds have had multiple dynastic eras; the Cardinals and Giants have hosted four dynasties, and the Cubs, Braves, Pirates, Phillies and Dodgers two each.  

                Of the eight American League originals, however, five have had dynastic eras; three have not, essentially because the Yankees have dominated the league for so much of the league’s history that there has not been as much opportunity for other teams. The Red Sox, Yankees, Orioles, Indians and A’s have had dynasties.    The Tigers have not, although they have come close repeatedly.    The White Sox have not, and have not really come close since 1920, when the eight White Sox players were banned from the game.    The Washington Senators (1901-1960) never came close to dynastic status.   The Minnesota Twins since 1960 have had dynastic running scores as high as 6 on four occasions, but have not yet reached 7. 

                There are four franchises which have had four dynastic eras.    The Philadelphia/Oakland Athletics/A’s have had four dynastic eras, all of them short but intense.   The Cardinals, as noted, have had four dynastic eras.   The Whitey Herzog Cardinals of the 1980s, if you are wondering, did not approach the status of a dynasty, since they had several losing seasons mixed in with their three good seasons in the 1980s.    The Giants had three dynasties in New York, have had one in San Francisco.  

 

 

46.  Boston Red Sox, 2002-the present

13 Points, 24th All Time

Key Figures:  John Henry, Theo Epstein, David Ortiz, Pedro Martinez, Terry Francona

                I run these studies as a way of taking my own opinions out of the debate, or at least of assigning my own opinions the most minor role that I can assign them.    I’m always trying to see the world as if it wasn’t me looking:

                O wad some Pow’r the giftie gie us

                To see oursels as ithers see us!

                                (Robert Burns)

                That’s it. . .I’m always trying to invent some way to see the things around me as others will eventually see them, when the swamp of bias has been drained by time.    I know that the Red Sox have accomplished something since I have been there, but how large is it, really?    This is my best effort to put the run in context.

 

47.   Los Angeles Angels, 2002-2009?

11 Points, 34th All Time

Key Figures:   Mike Scioscia, Frankie Rodriguez, Arte Moreno, John Lackey

                There are four dynasties which are at least theoretically still alive as of this moment:  The Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies and Angels.    The other three organizations, however, all scored at least one point in 2011, meaning that those dynasties cannot be declared dead until the end of the 2014 season.   The Angels, however, have had unproductive seasons in both 2010 and 2011, so this is it for them; if they don’t win 90 games or make post-season play this year, then our method will declare their dynasty ended in 2009, with a final total of 11 points.

 

48.  Philadelphia Phillies, 2007-the present

15 points, Tied for 21st All Time

Key Figures:  Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Jimmie Rollins, Roy Halladay, Charlie Manuel

                The Phillies’ pitchers at this writing are second in the league in strikeouts and first in (fewest) walks allowed—but are tenth in the league in ERA.     I would be surprised if that has ever happened over the course of a full season. 

 

49.   Current Scores

                At the end of the 2011 season there were twelve major league teams that had non-zero dynastic running scores:

Team

Score Running Since

Current

New York Yankees

1994

50

St. Louis Cardinals

2000

15

Philadelphia Phillies

2007

15

Boston Red Sox

2002

12

Los Angeles Angels

2002

7

Texas Rangers

2010

6

Tampa Bay Rays

2008

4

San Francisco Giants

2010

3

Minnesota Twins

2002

2

Milwaukee Brewers

2011

2

Arizona Diamondbacks

2011

2

Detroit Tigers

2011

2

 

 

50.   Last Leaderboard

Rank

City

Team

Lg

First

Last

Points

1

 

New York

Yankees

AL

1947

1964

68

2

 

New York

Yankees

AL

1920

1943

60

3

 

New York

Yankees

AL

1994

2011

50

4

 

Atlanta

Braves

NL

1991

2005

39

5

 

Baltimore

Orioles

AL

1964

1973

32

6

 

Bkn/LA

Dodgers

NL

1946

1966

28

7

 

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1904

1912

25

8

 

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

1941

1949

23

9

11

New York

Giants

NL

1904

1913

22

9

11

Philadelphia

Athletics

AL

1909

1914

22

9

11

Boston

Red Sox

AL

1912

1918

22

12

13

Cincinnati

Reds

NL

1970

1979

20

12

13

Oakland

A's

AL

1971

1975

20

14

15

Pittsburgh

Pirates

NL

1900

1912

19

14

15

Philadelphia

Athletics

AL

1927

1932

19

16

 

New York

Yankees

AL

1976

1986

18

17

 

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

1926

1935

17

18

20

New York

Giants

NL

1921

1928

16

18

20

Pittsburgh

Pirates

NL

1970

1979

16

18

20

Cleveland

Indians

AL

1995

2001

16

21

23

Kansas City

Royals

AL

1975

1985

15

21

23

St. Louis

Cardinals

AL

2000

2011

15

21

23

Philadelphia

Phillies

NL

2007

2011

15

24

29

St. Louis

Browns

AA

1885

1889

13

24

29

New York

Giants

NL

1933

1937

13

24

29

Los Angeles

Dodgers

NL

1973

1991

13

24

29

Philadelphia

Phillies

NL

1976

1983

13

24

29

Oakland

A's

AL

1988

1992

13

24

29

Boston

Red Sox

AL

2002

2011

13

30

31

Cleveland

Indians

AL

1948

1955

12

30

31

Toronto

Blue Jays

AL

1991

1993

12

32

34

Chicago

Cubs

NL

1880

1886

11

32

34

New York

Mets

NL

1984

1990

11

32

34

Los Angeles

Angels

AL

2002

2009?

11

35

37

Boston

Braves

NL

1891

1893

10

35

37

St. Louis

Cardinals

NL

1963

1968

10

35

37

San Francisco

Giants

NL

2000

2004

10

 

 
 

COMMENTS (55 Comments, most recent shown first)

joedimino
If somebody types a comment and nobody reads it, does it really exist? :-)

Anyway, I did more research for each schedule era of the NFL, and here is what I came up with as the great (100 win) and very good (90 win) NFL equivalents:

Great (100 win equivalent)

1920-26: .900 not counting ties AND .844 including ties as half win/half loss - and meaning the team must meet both.

In 1927 the league dropped to 12 teams and became more standardized in the schedule. But you'd still have some teams playing 10 games and others 13 or something, in any given season.

1927-34: .889 not counting ties AND .820 including ties as half win/half loss

After 1934 when the schedule and teams became uniform, schedule length is the determinant. The % is the % of teams that meet the achievement.

10G: 9-1 (3.6%)
11G: 10-1 (5.7%)
12G: 10-2 (6.1%)
14G: 12-2 (6.4%)
16G: 13-3 (6.3%)

Very Good (90 win equivalent)

1920-26: .727 not counting ties AND .700 including them
1927-34: .700 not counting ties AND .667 including them

Post 1934

10G: 7-2-1 (25.0%)
11G: 8-3 (24.3%)
12G: 8-3-1 (20.4%)
14G: 10-4 (24.9%)
16G: 11-5 (21.8%)

The idea was to keep the low standard in the 20-25% range and keep the high standard at 6% or so. While for baseball the high standard happens about 3.7% or so in non-expansion years, moving up just one win (13-1, 14-2) in the NFL would drop us to 2.7% (14-2) or 1.2% (13-1), which is too tough a standard. A 13-3 team that wins a Super Bowl deserves 6 points, that's a great team.
4:48 PM Sep 11th
 
joedimino
And the NFL actually does have a two and done dynasty. The 1958-59 Baltimore Colts.

After a three year run of 5-6-1, 5-7 and 7-5, the Colts won the championship game in 1958 and 1959 with 9-3 records (5 point seasons).

They followed this up with 6-6, 8-6, 7-7 from 1960-62, before starting another dynasty in 1963.

3:53 PM Aug 23rd
 
joedimino
My full NFL conversion was (ties are counted a 1/2 win, 1/2 loss, I realize the NFL did not do this until 1972):

.857 WPct (12-2, 14-2)
.786 WPct (11-3, 13-3)
.750 WPct (10-3-1, 12-4)
.667 WPct (9-4-1, 11-5)

6 points: Championship (after 1932) with .857 WPct or better.

5 points: Championship (after 1932) worse than .857 WPct

4 points: Championship (pre 1933) .857 WPct or better or championship game loss (after 1932) with .786 WPct or better

3 points: Championship (pre 1933) worse than .857 WPct or championship game loss (after 1932) worse than .786 WPct or Playoff bye with .786 WPct or better

2 points: Playoff bye worse than .786 WPct or .750 WPct season.

1 point: .667 WPct or any playoff season.

I treated winning the AFL Championship as equivalent to a playoff Bye from 1960-67. I treated the NFL championship game loser as the Super Bowl loser in 1966-67 (since they were much more competitive than the Super Bowl).

I'd love thoughts on how to tweak this, or if I got it close to correct.
3:46 PM Aug 23rd
 
joedimino
I spend a good chunk of yesterday working this up for the NFL . . . I made all the way from 1920 through Super Bowl III.

In doing this, I tried to find comparable win levels . . . obviously the percentages don't work (10-6 in the NFL is not the same 100-62 in MLB). The cutoff for a 100-win season, using every NFL team since the salary cap went in (1994) and every MLB team since 1961 (adjusted for expansion) was somewhere around 13-2-1 (13-3 would be under 100, 14-2 would be over). For 90 wins it came out to 11-5 or 9-4-1 in the old 14 game schedules.

It seems like the 3 year rule for ending the dynasty is too long for the NFL. Rosters turn over much quicker. 3 years allows the Bears dynasty to run from 1920-1950, for example, although I used win% instead of raw wins. But I also counted league championships as a 4 point max before the NFL championship game started.

But this dynasty went 7-5-1 in 1928, 4-9-2 in 1929, 8-5 in 1931. One 9-4-1 season in 4 years shouldn't allow you to keep it going, should it? It was an amazing run though, they were 258-88-33 from 1920-1950.

Another example is the Browns, who have run from 1946-1968 (and counting).

But from 1959-1962, they went 7-5, 8-3-1, 8-5-1, 7-6-1. Is that really enough to link the 1946-58 team with the 1963-68 team?

If anyone has any thoughts I'd be curious in terms of how to tweak this for the NFL.

*****

I found quite a large expansion bias, which probably explains why we had so many 1970s dynasties.

I plotted the data for every year from expansion through expansion +13 years and came up with the following:

100 win teams
Year 0: 9.7%
Year 1-7: 4.2%
Year 8+: 2.4%

It takes about 7 years for the expansion effect on 100 win teams to wash out, although the biggest impact is in the expansion year of course.

For 90+ win teams (including 100+ win teams)
Year 0-1: 26.5%
Year 2-4: 24.7%
Year 5+: 22.5%

I think this is significant and probably should be taken into account somehow. Maybe bump the 100 win requirement to 104 in the expansion year and 102 from years 1-7 post expansion.

For the 90 win requirement you could probably go to 92 for the expansion year and the year after, 91 for years 2-4.
3:33 PM Aug 23rd
 
MWeddell
To the poster who regards the 1984 and 1968 Tigers as the best single season teams up to that time, he might enjoy www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-great-28-part-2-of-2/
11:43 AM Aug 3rd
 
gogiggs
I was a little sad that not much was said about the great Indians teams of the '90s, but not that sad, given that most of what was said wasn't entirely accurate.
Albert Belle left as a free agent to the White Sox after '96. His career-ending injury came years later after he had left the ChiSox and signed in Baltimore.
Bartolo Colon did not leave town as a free agent, although he probably would have, given the chance. He was traded to Montreal for what has to be on off the best prospect hauls ever: Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips and Grady Sizemore.
They did score a lot of runs, though, got that right.

6:09 PM Jul 29th
 
Paul
Reply to Tom Nahigian --

Bill posted an article called Stink-o-meter on July 19, 2010, that deals with the worst teams in baseball history.
6:53 PM Jul 28th
 
trn6229
Thanks Bill. Very interesting article. Rob Neyer and Eddie Epstein wrote a book a few years ago called Baseball's Dynasties.

Conversely, what are some of the worst teams in baseball history? The Boston Braves were terrible before their miracle year of 1914. The Cardinals were bad before Branch Rickey joined the organization. The Washington Senators, St. Louis Browns, Philadelphia Phillies and Philadelphia Atheltics had lots of losing years and of course the 1962 to 1967 Mets were called Amazing because they were so bad.

Take Care,
Tom Nahigian
2:16 PM Jul 28th
 
bjames
I thought Tiberius went off to Rhodes or someplace because he just absolutely couldn't stand that woman Augustus had ordered him to marry. . .
11:54 PM Jul 26th
 
jdw
Probably could go around in circles on Tiberius and Agrippa Postumus depending on which of the classical sources one used.

Dio has Tiberius adopted after the death of Lucius and Gaius, with Tiberius forced to adopt his own nephew Germanicus above his son Drusus. Germanicus was the grandson of Augustus' sister Octavia, so this was Augustus' last gasp at getting a Julian in the line of succession: Tiberius then Germanicus as his heir. At the time of adoption, Tiberius was given tribunical power and signaled as the clear heir.

Tacitus has the same thing: Lucius & Gaius die, Tiberius adopted, given tribunical power as heir, and forced to adopt Germanicus as his son stepping in line infront of his natural son Drusus.

Both are dimissive of Postumus as having any qualities. They do both put his death onto the hands of Tiberius.

Suetonius is the one that has Agrippa Postumus and Tiberius adopted at the same time. Looks like whoever edits Postumus' Wiki page bought though version.

I don't think many historians who study the texts buy Suetonius' version as likely, at least those that I can think of off the top of my head. I just re-read Syme and Everitt a few months ago, and they are consistent with Tacitus and Dio. The reason is pretty obvious: Tiberius "retired" / exiled himself a decade prior in the face of Lucius & Gaius being advanced beyond him. He wasn't going to come back while at the same time Postumus was jumped ahead of him.

Sorry if this is a bit off tangent from a fun article. The old history major with a focus was Greece & Rome in. all these years later it sticks in the brain and I still enjoy reading it. :)
7:23 PM Jul 26th
 
Paul
I should probably say explicitly that this is a brilliantly fascinating article. And that's probably why I have such an urge to nitpick. I see something this good, and I want to push it as close to perfect as I can. And I found two more nits to pick, this time involving baseball rather than Rome.

Most important, the Moneyball Oakland A's in first half of the last decade had a seven year stretch, 2000 to 2006, where they won more than 90 games 6 times, won more than 100 twice, and won their division 4 times. Assuming no errors on my part, their running score reached a peak of 10 in 2004, so they should be listed as a dynasty.

Also, since St Louis won 90 games in 1971, I think that by the definitions given the Cardinals dynasty that began in 1963 should be shown as lasting to 1971.
8:51 PM Jul 25th
 
hotstatrat
It doesn't look like there is enough data to say that. For 97% of the teams, sure. However, the line always goes over those scatter dots way far to the right, which would represent the Yankees. There aren't any data samples in-between them and the rest of the teams to say if that is a flattening curve (which would make sense logically - at least, it does to me) or the Yankees are always under-performing.​
3:03 PM Jul 25th
 
tangotiger
Payroll to wins is pretty close to a straight line, even if you don't consider the service time issue.

www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/payroll_v_wins_in_the_moneyball_era_2002_2011/
2:05 PM Jul 25th
 
bjames
Acknowledging that there are special challenges for the Tampa Bay area, there are also special challenges almost everywhere. The area is still growing rapidly; it has grown 35% since 1990. Only 19% of the population of the Tampa Bay area is more than 65 years old; only 30% is more than 55 years old. These percentages may well be higher than other areas, but I don't think they justify the notion that the population dies off every twenty years.
12:36 PM Jul 25th
 
enamee
Italyprof,

I've actually developed a system to evaluate GMs based on wins relative to payroll. Basically, the recent Yankees teams kind of break the system, because their payrolls are SO high. Payroll evaluation methods that work for 99% of teams in baseball history don't work for the recent Yankees.

That said, my method expects the Cashman Yankees (1999-2011) to win 98 games per year, and in fact they won 96.5. But think about it: prior to this year, it didn't matter if you won the division or the wild card. If you won 95 games, you were basically guaranteed a spot on the postseason tournament. The Yankees spent more than everyone else, sure, but their goal was the same -- win 95 games. Which they did, and they've only missed the postseason once.

To properly evaluate Cashman, you have to look beyond payroll and focus on other aspects of his job. How well have the Yankees produced young players? How have they done in trades? Have they been successful at picking players off the scrap heap?

Payroll efficiency is one part of a GM's job, but only one, and in Cashman's case, it's not nearly as big of a deal as it is with most GMs. You have to dig deeper to find his value, and while I haven't done that, I'm pretty sure he's an above-average (and probably elite) GM.

Matthew Namee
11:52 AM Jul 25th
 
hotstatrat
Let's talk a little more about Detroit. The Kaline-Cash-Freehan-Lolich-McLain-McAuliffe-Horton-Northrup-Stanley-Brown-Hiller Tigers had a long run of being competitive, but only put together one great year: 1968. Then the Trammell-Whitaker-Parish-Morris-Petry-Lemon-Gibson-Lopez-Hernandez Tigers came along and did the same thing: many pennant races, but only one great season: 1984. Excellent teams that just happen to have taken a different shape than what can be squeezed into Bill's greatest dynasties list. (Not that it should: they were never a "dynasty".)

I'll say this: both the '68 team and the '84 were the greatest single season teams ever up to their point in history. Before you dismiss me as a ranting crazed turnip, consider that players get bigger and faster and more knowledgeable about how best to play the game each year. Plus the population from which MLB draws its talent has far outpaced expansion.

1968 was the last year before the 2nd wave of expansion. There had not been a team that won as many games (103) since the '61 Yankees - and that was an expansion year. The previous 100+ win team to the '61 Yankees was the 111 win Indians of '54, but they lost the World Series - as did the 105 win Dodgers in '53. In the '68 Series, Detroit beat the dynastic Cardinals.

Similarly, by 1984 it had been almost a decade since the big Red Machine dominated baseball with back-to-back championships of 108 wins and 102 wins. Detroit won 104 and so completely blew away all opponents by mid May (35-4) that they coasted to the play-offs. The post season didn't prove to any more of a challenge for those Tigers. They swept the Royals and took on the Padres in 5 games.

James Campbell had his hands in building both of those teams. He made some terrible trades (Bunning & junk for Don Demeter & junk), (Phil Regan for Dick Tracewski), (Ben Oglive for Jim Slaton), (Jason Thompson for Al Cowens) and some terrific trades (snatching McLain from the White Sox' minors), (Demeter for Earl Wilson), (McLain, Elliot Maddox, & junk for Joe Coleman, Aurelio Rodriguez, Ed Brinkman, & junk), (a soon-to-retire McAuliffe for Oglive), (Matt Kemp for Chet Lemon).

Campbell's real talent was creating an outstanding farm system - which started with largely Michigan area scouting before the free agent drafts and thrived through the first 20 years of the draft era. His greatest crime was gutting that great farm just before his boss John Fetzer sold the team to Tom Monaghan in 1984.

10:43 AM Jul 25th
 
hotstatrat
Off hand, I'd say Cashman's biggest weakness has been his (or Torre's or Giraldi's) inability to find good pitching coaches. They haven't been as bad as the Orioles in disappointing pitching prospects, but compared to most teams, they've had more than their share of disappointments. The trend is continuing, although, they have done OK with the odd finesse type (Wang, Nova, etc.).

Cashman's strength has been keeping the guys who have been worth keeping and not blowing big dough on guys not worth taking on - something his Steinbrenner predecessors found difficult. I'm not sure about Watson's and MIchael's record specifically, but that's what the '80s Yankees were known for. My impression is, if anything, Cashman has been less sycophantic. He was able to stand up to the bad decisions of Steinbrenner - and still keep his job. That takes real finesse.

9:45 AM Jul 25th
 
hotstatrat
To Italyprof - both of those reports use a bogus straight line correlation between dollars and wins. There is a law of diminishing return. You can even see it on the scatter chart, but they drew a straight line, anyway.

For many reasons it is difficult to sustain a dynasty over such a long period of time. It was probably much easier to do during the first half of the 20th century. It is difficult to fairly judge general managers, but it is very difficult to see Brian Cashman as anything less than an above average GM.
9:27 AM Jul 25th
 
italyprof
Please see this:

sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3816824

and this:


www.allsportstalk.net/mlb-baseball/high-mlb-payroll-more-wins/1442

As the first article shows, the New York Yankees' expected wins based on their salary from 1998-2008 was 98.7 and they ran at 97.8, or slightly below that. Compare that to what very capable front offices have done.
6:55 AM Jul 25th
 
TJNawrocki
In regards to italyprof's note about the Yankees: From 1996 to 2000, while the Yankees were winning four titles in five years, the team averaged 97.4 regular season wins. From 2001 to 2011, a span of eleven years in which they won just one title, the team averaged 97.3 regular season wins.

Unless there's some reason Brian Cashman has been constructing teams that are built to play poorly in the postseason, you'd have to say the team was just about as good in the past decade as it was when it was a perennial champion.
10:13 PM Jul 24th
 
sprox
I find it interesting to note that a team is allowed to "stink" in the middle of a dynasty

Absolulely NOT a criticism of the methodology, which I find perfectly logical and quite valid

I would just point out that the average troglodyte commenting on a radio talk show would say something like "how can a team be a dynasty and have a losing season"???

Also interesting to note that the Cubs are closing in on 100 years without a dynasty - now THAT is what stinking is all about!
9:34 PM Jul 24th
 
Trailbzr
What the Rays have is a population that dies off every twenty years, doesn't live there during the baseball season, and a metro area whose central hub is filled with water. If any metro area has an illusionary census count, this is the one.
6:06 PM Jul 24th
 
bjames
The Rays will have a fan base; it just takes 40 years. Texas had a very, very good team in '77, but. . .no fan base. It just takes time.
5:22 PM Jul 24th
 
italyprof
Okay, I am probably being somewhat unfair to Brian Cashman inasmuch as anyone who didn't do what the late George Steinbrenner wanted would likely not have lasted very long.

A few books have recounted however, that while Cashman and others often did try to delay some unconstructive decisions by the Boss, so as to have time to convince him otherwise, that particularly after the prime Dynasty years ended after 2001, there was little voice of opposition to many of the unwise choices made.

I am sure Cashman is a decent man and nice, and if you know him personally I apologize if I have offended you or anyone else.

That said, if you aren't a Yankees fan I think it is hard to understand why many, many of us have pulled our hair out about the Yankees' front office for over a decade now. The team was arguably the greatest ever in 1998 (you argued as much in Historical Baseball Abstracts) and based on the postseason performance arguably as good in '99.

It already showed signs of fading in 2000 but was still good enough to win the Series. The 2001 team in my view should never have made it as far as it did, and partly did so on self-confidence and reputation, a certain intimidation factor built up as a reservoir over the previous seasons. That was almost enough for one more championship and if the wind had not changed for one inning and Shane Spencer's fly ball had gone out of the park as it normally would have, it would have been enough.

But with all due respect, a GM that has a budget that any two other teams could only dream of combined, who starts out with the greatest team ever and gets two World Series wins for 10 seasons, then one more, is not quite a "great" General Manager in most people's books.

One that on the other hand took over a team that despite winning regular season games had not done anything in the post season for a decade and a half and then been the worst team in the league a few seasons before (1990) and instead in a short time built the greatest team ever might deserve that title.

I am a 5th generation, and die-hard Yankees fan. That there are days when I find myself rooting for Baltimore, Oakland or the Dodgers to do well tells me that I am not very convinced that the way my team is managed and developed is exciting to us fans. So no cheap shot was intended. Often the Yankees' management blames their own fans for their actions as front office: "They expect us to win every year."

Maybe. I am not convinced. I bet if you took a poll you would find that many wish they had kept Alfonso Soriano and Nick Johnson and never brought Giambi or A-Rod to NY. Who were excited that Wang, Chamberlain, and Hughes seemed like the pitchers of the future at one point.

I wish that my first post on your fine website to which I was referred by a trusted friend had not resulted in your feeling offended and needing to correct and even reprimand me for it, and hope there are no hard feelings. And I appreciate what a tough spot Brian Cashman and others at the Yankees have been in and what pressure they have been under for years with expectations. But there were other routes they might have taken, and they might have more of the fans' hearts and understanding had they taken those routes.


5:21 PM Jul 24th
 
hotstatrat
If division baseball had come a few years earlier, the White Sox would have won three in a row '63-'65 with win totals of 94, 98, and 95. Over the 15 years from 1953 to 1967 (remembering that great pennant race also with the Twins, Tigers, and Red Sox that year), the Southside Chicago-ans averaged 89.5 wins per season. They were another Paul Richards built team handed over to an outstanding manager for his era: Al Lopez. They were led by Minnie Minoso, Billy Pierce, Nellie Fox, Luis Aparicio, then a hoard of tough pitchers: Hoyt Wilhelm, Juan Pizzaro, Ray Herbert, Gary Peters, and Joel Horlen.​
4:27 PM Jul 24th
 
hotstatrat
Just speculating, but the way the Rangers have been developing talent lately, it seems they are just at the start of the next 10+ point dynasty. The Rays are similar, except that they don't have the finances (i.e. fan base) to take it up to the dynasty level. They probably never will as long as they are stuck in Tropicana.
2:43 PM Jul 24th
 
hotstatrat
Rightfully, the Blue Jays barely make the list thanks to their back-to-back championships, but they had a stronger build up to it than suddenly looking good in 1991. They rose from expansion team doormats to 89 wins in 1983 - the year I moved to Toronto from the U.S. coincidentally. They followed that up with another 89 win season - both seasons, of course, under your system's radar. In '85, they found the outstanding reliever they previously lacked in Tom Henke and won the division. They won 99 games that season, again just missing another bonus point. The next three years: 86, 96, and 87 wins, but no title. They did win the division in 1989, but fell to the respectable 86 wins in 1990. That's eight straight years of strong contention with a couple of division titles before the three years counted in their mini-dynasty.
2:27 PM Jul 24th
 
bjames
Brian Cashman is a fine man and a great General Manager; not putting down Bob Watson, but I can't let the cheap shot at Cashman pass without challenge. Paul. .. I see your point and will assume you are correct.

As noted, the Tigers zeroed out as a potential dynasty long before the 1940 championship. The 1940 Tigers are interesting because large parts of that team ARE the same as the 1934-1935 team. But a four-year period of doing basically nothing is not consistent with a "dynasty" label by the rules that I established.
11:45 AM Jul 24th
 
italyprof
The unsung hero of the 1990s Yankees dynasty is Bob Watson. He and Gene Michael, NOT the sycophantic Brian Cashman, built the team that eventually accomplished what they did in 1998-9.

For 1996, Watson, long before Billy Beane and Moneyball, explicitly wanted players that would take a lot of pitches, run up opposing pitchers' pitch counts, and run out every batted ball even fouls and pop outs, essentially maximizing OBP and scoring opportunities. But because he left between 1996 and 1998, he is a footnote in this history.

I also wonder what he did with the one million tootsie rolls.


9:16 AM Jul 24th
 
contrarian
The 30s Tigers are covered in note 8.
9:14 AM Jul 24th
 
wovenstrap
Hmmm. That's an interesting point about the dynasty team-seasons in the 1990s. Do you personally think that the 1990s Braves are the 4th-most impressive dynasty ever?
9:13 AM Jul 24th
 
Paul
I don't know how long we want to keep talking about the Julio-Claudian dynasty rather than baseball dynasties, but . . .
While Augustus certainly adopted Tiberius, I don't see how that helps establish that Tiberius was Agrippa Postumus's stepbrother, since Augustus was Postumus's grandfather, not his stepfather.
8:14 AM Jul 24th
 
wdr1946
Very interesting- what about the Detroit Tigers of 1934-45, essentially the only AL team which could get past the
Yankees with any success?
7:19 AM Jul 24th
 
contrarian
Nice to be reminded of some of the less-talked-about great teams. Those Cardinals of the 40s were really something. Creamer's "Baseball in 41" provides a great treatment of the 1941 NL race, in addition to the obvious story lines of DiMaggio, Williams, and WWII.
7:18 AM Jul 24th
 
bjames
I don't believe there is any bias toward the modern era. In the 1990s there were only 29 team/seasons of dynasty participation, which is the LOWEST percentage of any decade since 1900. The highest percentage of dynasty participation is the 1970s, 55 team/seasons of dynasty participation out of 246 team/seasons, or 22%, but then the 1980s had a LOW participation rate (15%) and the 1990s a very low rate (10%). The dynasty participation rate for 2000-2009 (17%) is near the historic norm of 16%.
5:00 AM Jul 24th
 
bjames
1) Bearbyz is correct about the Mets. . ..clerical error on my part. I copied over the LAST entry in the column, when the rule is that what counts is the HIGHEST entry in the column.

2) I double-checked sources about Tiberius, and I was correct. Tiberius was the son of Livia, Augustus' wife, and Augustus did adopt Tiberius, although probably not until Tiberius was an adult.
3:06 AM Jul 24th
 
shthar
Does it make a dynasty greater if they have a great rivalry during that time?

On the one hand, if they're a real dynasty, they shouldn't have any rivals.

But on the other, the hero aint a hero unless he has a monster to slay.


12:51 AM Jul 24th
 
hotstatrat
It seems Bob Howsam deserves a big shout out for being the principle architect of both the '63-'68 Cardinals and the '70-'79 Reds.

10:37 PM Jul 23rd
 
bearbyz
I have the 84 - 90 Mets at 12 points, which would move them up to a tie for 30th:

1984 1 1
1985 1 2
1986 6 8
1987 1 9
1988 3 12
1989 -2 10
1990 1 11

8:26 PM Jul 23rd
 
Paul
A minor point but maybe of interest to somebody. The Emperor Tiberius was Postumus's uncle and stepfather and brother-in-law, but not, I think, his stepbrother. Although heaven know the family tree gets pretty gnarled and complicated in that particular family, so I may be missing something.
6:25 PM Jul 23rd
 
wovenstrap
There seems to be a slight bias in favor of our era. I'm a Yankee fan, and as such I'm happy to see the Torre Yankees rate so highly. But also a little bit surprised.

The one that really sticks out (for me) is Cox's Braves at #4. The Braves were working in a context with 4 or 6 division winners in compressed (i.e. 5-team) divisions. To be fair, they did win a lot of games every year. But to rate them as significantly ahead of Weaver's Orioles, Alston's Dodgers, or Sparky's Reds seems ... not defensible.
5:02 PM Jul 23rd
 
bjames
The reason it is better to give credit to teams by wins, rather than winning percentage, is that the standard deviation of winning percentage contracts over time, so that you get much more consistency over time using wins. In the years 1904 to 1961/62, not counting the shortened 1918 and 1919 seasons, there were 904 major league teams, of which 39 won 100 games, or 4 to 5%. Since the start of the 162 game schedule, and not counting the strike-shortened 1972, 1981, 1994 and 1995 seasons, there have been 1,152 major league teams, of which 51 have won 100 games, or 4 to 5%. The percentage, I think, is almost identical.

There is a small advantage on THIS scale for 90-win teams under the 162-game schedule. 21% of teams won 90 games on the 154-game schedule, 24% have done so on the 162-game schedule--but that's a per-team, per-season advantage for the modern teams of .03, a fairly insignificant matter when you're fighting all kinds of other biases and inconsistencies.

You would get much LESS consistency over time, not more, if you used winning percentages. For example 4.3% of teams playing a 154-game schedule had a .650 winning percentage, whereas LESS THAN ONE PERCENT have had a .650 winning percentage under the 162-game schedule (0.7%). And 16% of teams had a .600 winning percentage using the 154-game schedule, whereas only 7% have had a .600 winning percentage since the 162-game schedule was adopted.


4:33 PM Jul 23rd
 
Patrick
I really like this method of ranking dynasties. Great article.
3:20 PM Jul 23rd
 
StatsGuru
I believe Albert Belle left Cleveland via free agency and was injured playing for Baltimore.
2:42 PM Jul 23rd
 
BringBackTriandos
Typo in chart. Orioles dynasty ran to 1983 in your writing, 1973 in your chart. Loose typing fingers sink dynasties.
2:31 PM Jul 23rd
 
Robinsong
TJNawrocki -
The Cardinals dynasty doex start in 1926 (see final list). It was just a typo in the headline on that section.
1:59 PM Jul 23rd
 
TJNawrocki
I haven't finished the entire article yet, but I don't understand how the Cardinal dynasty could have lasted from 1927 to 1935 when they won the World Series in 1926. How can that World Championship not be considered part of the dynasty that started the next year?
1:26 PM Jul 23rd
 
hankgillette
It seems to me that it would be "fairer" to use winning percentage rather than a set number of wins. Winning 100 games in a 162 game schedule has a winning percentage of 0.617. The equivalent number of wins in a 154 game schedule would be 95.

The Oriole 1894 season (89-39) extrapolates to 112.64 wins in a 162 game season. It doesn't seem right that they get no credit at all for the number of wins in that season.
1:17 PM Jul 23rd
 
mskarpelos
I'm a big fan of Robert Burns, although I usually express the same sentiment by quoting someone not quite so famous: the seventh century saint, Isaac the Syrian, who said, "To see yourself as you truly are is a greater miracle than the resurrection of the dead."

Excellent article Bill. I love your work as an analyst, but I love your work as a historian even more.
12:50 PM Jul 23rd
 
izzy24
As far as the current Red Sox dynasty goes, I believe Manny Ramirez and some guy named William James deserve to be mentioned under "key figures".
12:20 PM Jul 23rd
 
wovenstrap
I'd love to see the accounting for the Sparky Anderson Tigers and the Gary Carter Expos. The Expos, of course, are the modern equivalent of those Milwaukee Braves, and the Tigers are pretty similar.
11:25 AM Jul 23rd
 
Robinsong
There is a fifth dynasty alive now - the Cardinals. With more teams, more competitive balance, and more accomplishments (getting to the postseason), there are more little dynasties. That makes the long-term success of the Yankees, Braves, and Cardinal of recent years even more impressive.
11:17 AM Jul 23rd
 
russelfe
I've always thought that a dynasty was a team that continues to win as key players age and news ones come in. A team that wins with a stable group but collapses after is not, to me, a dynasty.
10:45 AM Jul 23rd
 
bjjp2
As a Met fan, I find it interesting that you included HoJo as one of the "key figures" of the 84-90 Mets and not Hernandez, Carter and Darling.
9:42 AM Jul 23rd
 
Trailbzr
I became a baseball fan watching Earl Weaver's Orioles. Awesome to see they're #5 all-time, and played Word Series against #6, 12, 18, 18 and 24; and fought for pennants against #13, 16 and 21.

During this period, Weaver went from being the guy "who didn't have to know anything except how to spell Robinson" to one of the most respected dugout minds ever. I often wonder if Bill James fans include a disproportionate number of Maryland boys from the 60-70s.
9:10 AM Jul 23rd
 
 
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