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Shortstops of the last 30 years

By Bill James
April 27, 2018
                                                                       121. Larkin

            From 1990 to 1995 the best shortstop in baseball was Barry Larkin.  Dave Concepcion and Barry Larkin both had careers lasting 19 years, entirely in Cincinnati.   Both men played from ages 22 to 40.   Their careers overlap by three seasons, 1986-87-88, so that the Cincinnati shortstop position was in the very capable hands of one or the other for 35 years.  Concepcion didn’t make the Hall of Fame, at least yet, but we should add that to the list of "baton passes", like Ted Williams to Carl Yastrzemski to Jim Rice and DiMaggio to Mantle and Bill Dickey to Yogi Berra.   The guy who preceded Concepcion, Leo Cardenas, was really good, too, although not at the same level.  

              Used to know a guy in Cincinnati who had a dog named Larry Barkin.                

First

Last

YEAR

HR

RBI

Avg

OBA

SPct

OPS

Value

Barry

Larkin

1990

7

67

.301

.358

.396

.753

26.25

Alan

Trammell

1990

14

89

.304

.377

.449

.826

25.19

Cal

Ripken

1990

21

84

.250

.341

.415

.756

23.88

Tony

Fernandez

1990

4

66

.276

.352

.391

.742

19.84

Shawon

Dunston

1990

17

66

.262

.283

.426

.709

18.06

Jay

Bell

1990

7

52

.254

.329

.362

.691

17.42

Ozzie

Smith

1990

1

50

.254

.330

.305

.635

17.40

Kurt

Stillwell

1990

3

51

.249

.304

.352

.656

15.29

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Barry

Larkin

1991

20

69

.302

.378

.506

.884

28.66

Cal

Ripken

1991

34

114

.323

.374

.566

.940

27.43

Ozzie

Smith

1991

3

50

.285

.380

.367

.747

22.10

Jay

Bell

1991

16

67

.270

.330

.428

.757

20.38

Tony

Fernandez

1991

4

38

.272

.337

.360

.697

18.08

Alan

Trammell

1991

9

55

.248

.320

.373

.693

16.83

Shawon

Dunston

1991

12

50

.260

.292

.407

.699

14.87

Greg

Gagne

1991

8

42

.265

.310

.395

.705

14.64

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Barry

Larkin

1992

12

78

.304

.377

.454

.831

30.39

Cal

Ripken

1992

14

72

.251

.323

.366

.689

22.47

Ozzie

Smith

1992

0

31

.295

.367

.342

.708

20.94

Jay

Bell

1992

9

55

.264

.326

.383

.709

20.37

Tony

Fernandez

1992

4

37

.275

.337

.359

.696

17.22

Pat

Listach

1992

1

47

.290

.352

.349

.701

17.19

Mike

Bordick

1992

3

48

.300

.358

.371

.729

14.74

Greg

Gagne

1992

7

39

.246

.280

.346

.626

13.81

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

First

Last

YEAR

HR

RBI

Avg

OBA

SPct

OPS

Value

Barry

Larkin

1993

8

51

.315

.394

.445

.839

26.10

Jay

Bell

1993

9

51

.310

.392

.437

.830

20.61

Cal

Ripken

1993

24

90

.257

.329

.420

.748

19.79

Ozzie

Smith

1993

1

53

.288

.337

.356

.693

19.04

Tony

Fernandez

1993

5

64

.279

.348

.394

.742

16.59

John

Valentin

1993

11

66

.278

.346

.447

.793

16.49

Alan

Trammell

1993

12

60

.329

.388

.496

.885

15.64

Andujar

Cedeno

1993

11

56

.283

.346

.412

.758

14.68

Greg

Gagne

1993

10

57

.280

.319

.406

.724

14.65

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Barry

Larkin

1994

9

52

.279

.369

.419

.788

26.61

Cal

Ripken

1994

13

75

.315

.364

.459

.823

19.97

John

Valentin

1994

9

49

.316

.400

.505

.905

19.67

Jay

Bell

1994

9

45

.276

.353

.441

.794

17.92

Wil

Cordero

1994

15

63

.294

.363

.489

.853

14.60

Tony

Fernandez

1994

8

50

.279

.361

.426

.787

14.58

Omar

Vizquel

1994

1

33

.273

.325

.325

.650

12.65

Greg

Gagne

1994

7

51

.259

.314

.392

.706

12.52

Ozzie

Smith

1994

3

30

.262

.326

.349

.675

12.45

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Barry

Larkin

1995

15

66

.319

.394

.492

.886

29.85

John

Valentin

1995

27

102

.298

.399

.533

.931

25.86

Cal

Ripken

1995

17

88

.262

.324

.422

.745

18.63

Jay

Bell

1995

13

55

.262

.336

.404

.739

17.26

Omar

Vizquel

1995

6

56

.266

.333

.351

.684

16.24

Wil

Cordero

1995

10

49

.286

.341

.420

.761

14.36

Shawon

Dunston

1995

14

69

.296

.317

.472

.788

14.01

Jose

Offerman

1995

4

33

.287

.389

.375

.765

13.85

Jose

Vizcaino

1995

3

56

.287

.332

.365

.698

13.74

 

 

122.  A-Rod Was Young Once, Believe it or Not

              Can’t believe it has been twenty years since we had talk show wars over A-Rod and Nomar and Derek Jeter.   A-Rod was a historic talent, er. . . .maybe it wasn’t talent, I don’t know:

 

First

Last

YEAR

HR

RBI

Avg

OBA

SPct

OPS

Value

Alex

Rodriguez

1996

36

123

.358

.414

.631

1.045

29.77

Barry

Larkin

1996

33

89

.298

.410

.567

.977

29.23

John

Valentin

1996

13

59

.296

.374

.436

.811

21.85

Cal

Ripken

1996

26

102

.278

.341

.466

.807

19.67

Jose

Valentin

1996

24

95

.259

.336

.475

.811

17.05

Derek

Jeter

1996

10

78

.314

.370

.430

.800

17.02

Jay

Bell

1996

13

71

.250

.323

.391

.714

17.01

Kevin

Elster

1996

24

99

.252

.317

.462

.779

16.84

Omar

Vizquel

1996

9

64

.297

.362

.417

.779

16.32

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Alex

Rodriguez

1997

23

84

.300

.350

.496

.846

25.98

Nomar

Garciaparra

1997

30

98

.306

.342

.534

.875

24.05

Barry

Larkin

1997

4

20

.317

.440

.473

.913

23.43

Derek

Jeter

1997

10

70

.291

.370

.405

.775

21.18

Jay

Bell

1997

21

92

.291

.368

.461

.829

20.36

Omar

Vizquel

1997

5

49

.280

.347

.368

.715

16.54

Royce

Clayton

1997

9

61

.266

.306

.398

.704

15.81

Jose

Valentin

1997

17

58

.253

.310

.407

.717

15.00

Tony

Fernandez

1997

11

44

.286

.323

.423

.746

14.75

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Alex

Rodriguez

1998

42

124

.310

.360

.560

.919

29.55

Nomar

Garciaparra

1998

35

122

.323

.362

.584

.946

28.54

Derek

Jeter

1998

19

84

.324

.384

.481

.864

26.70

Barry

Larkin

1998

17

72

.309

.397

.504

.901

24.62

Jay

Bell

1998

20

67

.251

.353

.432

.785

19.92

Omar

Vizquel

1998

2

50

.288

.358

.372

.730

18.34

Tony

Fernandez

1998

9

72

.321

.387

.459

.846

16.60

Jose

Valentin

1998

16

49

.224

.323

.393

.716

15.95

Royce

Clayton

1998

9

53

.251

.319

.366

.685

15.51

Neifi

Perez

1998

9

59

.274

.313

.382

.695

15.07

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Nomar

Garciaparra

1999

27

104

.357

.418

.603

1.022

31.28

Derek

Jeter

1999

24

102

.349

.437

.552

.989

30.50

Alex

Rodriguez

1999

42

111

.285

.357

.586

.943

29.61

Jay

Bell

1999

38

112

.289

.374

.557

.931

22.24

Barry

Larkin

1999

12

75

.293

.390

.420

.810

22.04

Omar

Vizquel

1999

5

66

.333

.397

.436

.833

19.67

Miguel

Tejada

1999

21

84

.251

.325

.427

.751

18.56

Rich

Aurilia

1999

22

80

.281

.336

.444

.780

16.91

Neifi

Perez

1999

12

70

.280

.307

.403

.710

16.86

Edgar

Renteria

1999

11

63

.275

.334

.400

.734

16.58

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

First

Last

YEAR

HR

RBI

Avg

OBA

SPct

OPS

Value

Alex

Rodriguez

2000

41

132

.316

.420

.606

1.026

35.34

Nomar

Garciaparra

2000

21

96

.372

.434

.599

1.033

28.84

Derek

Jeter

2000

15

73

.339

.416

.481

.896

27.22

Miguel

Tejada

2000

30

115

.275

.349

.479

.828

22.70

Jose

Valentin

2000

25

92

.273

.343

.491

.835

20.57

Rich

Aurilia

2000

20

79

.271

.339

.444

.783

18.53

Jay

Bell

2000

18

68

.267

.348

.437

.786

17.57

Omar

Vizquel

2000

7

66

.287

.377

.375

.753

17.41

Edgar

Renteria

2000

16

76

.278

.346

.423

.770

17.13

Barry

Larkin

2000

11

41

.313

.389

.487

.876

16.75

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Alex

Rodriguez

2001

52

135

.318

.399

.622

1.021

35.66

Derek

Jeter

2001

21

74

.311

.377

.480

.858

27.40

Miguel

Tejada

2001

31

113

.267

.326

.476

.801

25.46

Rich

Aurilia

2001

37

97

.324

.369

.572

.941

22.61

Orlando

Cabrera

2001

14

96

.276

.324

.428

.752

17.70

Jimmy

Rollins

2001

14

54

.274

.323

.419

.743

17.50

Edgar

Renteria

2001

10

57

.260

.314

.371

.685

17.45

Nomar

Garciaparra

2001

4

8

.289

.352

.470

.822

17.34

Cristian

Guzman

2001

10

51

.302

.337

.477

.814

16.73

Jose

Hernandez

2001

25

78

.249

.300

.443

.743

16.44

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Alex

Rodriguez

2002

57

142

.300

.392

.623

1.015

34.71

Miguel

Tejada

2002

34

131

.308

.354

.508

.861

28.60

Derek

Jeter

2002

18

75

.297

.373

.421

.794

24.83

Nomar

Garciaparra

2002

24

120

.310

.352

.528

.880

24.01

Edgar

Renteria

2002

11

83

.305

.364

.439

.803

20.69

Rich

Aurilia

2002

15

61

.257

.305

.413

.718

18.55

Jimmy

Rollins

2002

11

60

.245

.306

.380

.686

18.02

Orlando

Cabrera

2002

7

56

.263

.321

.380

.701

18.01

Rafael

Furcal

2002

8

47

.275

.323

.387

.710

17.83

Omar

Vizquel

2002

14

72

.275

.341

.418

.759

17.62

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Alex

Rodriguez

2003

47

118

.298

.396

.600

.995

32.75

Miguel

Tejada

2003

27

106

.278

.336

.472

.807

26.75

Derek

Jeter

2003

10

52

.324

.393

.450

.844

23.82

Edgar

Renteria

2003

13

100

.330

.394

.480

.874

22.74

Nomar

Garciaparra

2003

28

105

.301

.345

.524

.870

22.25

Rafael

Furcal

2003

15

61

.292

.352

.443

.794

21.29

Orlando

Cabrera

2003

17

80

.297

.347

.460

.807

20.32

Jimmy

Rollins

2003

8

62

.263

.320

.387

.707

19.64

Jose

Valentin

2003

28

74

.237

.313

.463

.776

17.29

Carlos

Guillen

2003

7

52

.276

.359

.394

.753

17.06

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

First

Last

YEAR

HR

RBI

Avg

OBA

SPct

OPS

Value

Miguel

Tejada

2004

34

150

.311

.360

.534

.894

27.08

Derek

Jeter

2004

23

78

.292

.352

.471

.823

26.07

Michael

Young

2004

22

99

.313

.353

.483

.836

24.26

Jimmy

Rollins

2004

14

73

.289

.348

.455

.803

22.47

Carlos

Guillen

2004

20

97

.318

.379

.542

.921

21.71

Rafael

Furcal

2004

14

59

.279

.344

.414

.758

21.42

Edgar

Renteria

2004

10

72

.287

.327

.401

.728

20.19

Omar

Vizquel

2004

7

59

.291

.353

.388

.741

18.22

Julio

Lugo

2004

7

75

.275

.338

.396

.734

18.12

Orlando

Cabrera

2004

10

62

.264

.306

.383

.689

17.93

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Michael

Young

2005

24

91

.331

.385

.513

.899

26.96

Derek

Jeter

2005

19

70

.309

.389

.450

.839

26.87

Miguel

Tejada

2005

26

98

.304

.349

.515

.865

24.94

Jimmy

Rollins

2005

12

54

.290

.338

.431

.770

22.82

Rafael

Furcal

2005

12

58

.284

.348

.429

.777

22.31

Edgar

Renteria

2005

8

70

.276

.335

.385

.721

20.26

Felipe

Lopez

2005

23

85

.291

.352

.486

.838

19.24

Jhonny

Peralta

2005

24

78

.292

.366

.520

.885

19.06

Omar

Vizquel

2005

3

45

.271

.341

.350

.691

18.89

Julio

Lugo

2005

6

57

.295

.362

.403

.765

18.80

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Derek

Jeter

2006

14

97

.343

.417

.483

.900

28.65

Michael

Young

2006

14

103

.314

.356

.459

.814

25.60

Jimmy

Rollins

2006

25

83

.277

.334

.478

.811

25.09

Jose

Reyes

2006

19

81

.300

.354

.487

.841

24.47

Rafael

Furcal

2006

15

63

.300

.369

.445

.814

23.04

Hanley

Ramirez

2006

17

59

.292

.353

.480

.833

22.99

Carlos

Guillen

2006

19

85

.320

.400

.519

.920

22.60

Miguel

Tejada

2006

24

100

.330

.379

.498

.878

22.02

Edgar

Renteria

2006

14

70

.293

.361

.436

.797

20.05

Orlando

Cabrera

2006

9

72

.282

.335

.404

.738

19.16

 

 

123.  This is Going to Irritate the Phillies Phans

            Hanley Ramirez played shortstop in the National League from 2006 to 2013, and ranked as the #1 shortstop in baseball four times:

 

First

Last

YEAR

HR

RBI

Avg

OBA

SPct

OPS

Value

Hanley

Ramirez

2007

29

81

.332

.386

.562

.948

27.70

Jimmy

Rollins

2007

30

94

.296

.344

.531

.875

25.97

Derek

Jeter

2007

12

73

.322

.388

.452

.840

25.42

Jose

Reyes

2007

12

57

.280

.354

.421

.775

24.14

Michael

Young

2007

9

94

.315

.366

.418

.783

23.49

Carlos

Guillen

2007

21

102

.296

.357

.502

.859

21.40

Troy

Tulowitzki

2007

24

99

.291

.359

.479

.838

21.10

Orlando

Cabrera

2007

8

86

.301

.345

.397

.742

19.65

Edgar

Renteria

2007

12

57

.332

.390

.470

.860

19.30

Rafael

Furcal

2007

6

47

.271

.333

.355

.689

18.25

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Hanley

Ramirez

2008

33

67

.301

.400

.540

.940

31.04

Jose

Reyes

2008

16

68

.297

.358

.475

.833

24.92

Jimmy

Rollins

2008

11

59

.277

.349

.437

.786

24.72

Derek

Jeter

2008

11

69

.300

.363

.408

.771

22.61

Stephen

Drew

2008

21

67

.291

.333

.502

.836

19.11

Orlando

Cabrera

2008

8

57

.281

.334

.371

.705

18.20

Jhonny

Peralta

2008

23

89

.276

.331

.473

.804

17.40

Troy

Tulowitzki

2008

8

46

.263

.332

.401

.732

17.25

J.J.

Hardy

2008

24

74

.283

.343

.478

.821

17.19

Miguel

Tejada

2008

13

66

.283

.314

.415

.729

16.84

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Hanley

Ramirez

2009

24

106

.342

.410

.543

.954

30.77

Derek

Jeter

2009

18

66

.334

.406

.465

.871

24.05

Troy

Tulowitzki

2009

32

92

.297

.377

.552

.930

23.69

Jimmy

Rollins

2009

21

77

.250

.296

.423

.719

21.81

Yunel

Escobar

2009

14

76

.299

.377

.436

.812

19.83

Jason

Bartlett

2009

14

66

.320

.389

.490

.879

19.16

Miguel

Tejada

2009

14

86

.313

.340

.455

.795

18.63

Stephen

Drew

2009

12

65

.261

.320

.428

.748

18.35

Erick

Aybar

2009

5

58

.312

.353

.423

.776

18.22

Asdrubal

Cabrera

2009

6

68

.308

.361

.438

.799

17.76

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

First

Last

YEAR

HR

RBI

Avg

OBA

SPct

OPS

Value

Troy

Tulowitzki

2010

27

95

.315

.381

.568

.949

25.37

Hanley

Ramirez

2010

21

76

.300

.378

.475

.853

24.43

Jose

Reyes

2010

11

54

.282

.321

.428

.749

22.07

Jimmy

Rollins

2010

8

41

.243

.320

.374

.694

21.15

Derek

Jeter

2010

10

67

.270

.340

.370

.710

20.43

Elvis

Andrus

2010

0

35

.265

.342

.301

.643

19.42

Alexei

Ramirez

2010

18

70

.282

.313

.431

.744

19.01

Stephen

Drew

2010

15

61

.278

.352

.458

.810

18.50

Alex

Gonzalez

2010

23

88

.250

.294

.447

.741

16.78

Asdrubal

Cabrera

2010

3

29

.276

.326

.346

.673

16.69

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Jose

Reyes

2011

7

44

.337

.384

.493

.877

25.15

Troy

Tulowitzki

2011

30

105

.302

.372

.544

.916

24.65

Jimmy

Rollins

2011

16

63

.268

.338

.399

.736

23.47

Asdrubal

Cabrera

2011

25

92

.273

.332

.460

.792

21.40

J.J.

Hardy

2011

30

80

.269

.310

.491

.801

19.99

Elvis

Andrus

2011

5

60

.279

.347

.361

.708

19.51

Jhonny

Peralta

2011

21

86

.299

.345

.478

.824

19.20

Hanley

Ramirez

2011

10

45

.243

.333

.379

.712

19.06

Alexei

Ramirez

2011

15

70

.269

.328

.399

.727

18.47

Erick

Aybar

2011

10

59

.279

.322

.421

.743

17.91

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Jose

Reyes

2012

11

57

.287

.347

.433

.780

23.23

Jimmy

Rollins

2012

23

68

.250

.316

.427

.743

21.80

Elvis

Andrus

2012

3

62

.286

.349

.378

.727

20.17

Ian

Desmond

2012

25

73

.292

.335

.511

.845

19.58

J.J.

Hardy

2012

22

68

.238

.282

.389

.671

19.52

Derek

Jeter

2012

15

58

.316

.362

.429

.791

19.43

Hanley

Ramirez

2012

24

92

.257

.322

.437

.759

19.41

Asdrubal

Cabrera

2012

16

68

.270

.338

.423

.762

19.09

Jhonny

Peralta

2012

13

63

.239

.305

.384

.689

17.09

Troy

Tulowitzki

2012

8

27

.287

.360

.486

.846

16.74

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Hanley

Ramirez

2013

20

57

.345

.402

.638

1.040

22.26

Ian

Desmond

2013

20

80

.280

.331

.453

.784

21.68

Jhonny

Peralta

2013

11

55

.303

.358

.457

.815

20.99

Jose

Reyes

2013

10

37

.296

.353

.427

.780

20.78

Troy

Tulowitzki

2013

25

82

.312

.391

.540

.931

20.43

Jimmy

Rollins

2013

6

39

.252

.318

.348

.667

19.74

Jed

Lowrie

2013

15

75

.290

.344

.446

.791

19.46

Jean

Segura

2013

12

49

.294

.329

.423

.752

18.45

J.J.

Hardy

2013

25

76

.263

.306

.433

.738

17.10

Elvis

Andrus

2013

4

67

.271

.328

.331

.659

17.05

 

124. Up to the Present

              After 2013 Hanley and Jose Reyes and Jimmy Rollins and J. J. Hardy and Tulowitzski were all fading as shortstops, to one degree or another, and our present generation of amazing young shortstops was still a couple of years away.   You all know who those are—Seager and Correa and Lindor and Bogaerts and Trea Turner and Didi Gregorious.   So far Seager appears to be the #1 man in the class, but they’re all really good. 

 

First

Last

YEAR

HR

RBI

Avg

OBA

SPct

OPS

Value

Jhonny

Peralta

2014

21

75

.263

.336

.443

.779

20.38

Brandon

Crawford

2014

10

69

.246

.324

.389

.713

19.76

Hanley

Ramirez

2014

13

71

.283

.369

.448

.817

19.61

Ian

Desmond

2014

24

91

.255

.313

.430

.743

19.55

Jose

Reyes

2014

9

51

.287

.328

.398

.726

19.26

Troy

Tulowitzki

2014

21

52

.340

.432

.603

1.035

18.82

Alexei

Ramirez

2014

15

74

.273

.305

.408

.713

17.91

Jimmy

Rollins

2014

17

55

.243

.323

.394

.717

17.07

Danny

Santana

2014

7

40

.319

.353

.472

.824

17.06

Elvis

Andrus

2014

2

41

.263

.314

.333

.647

16.87

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Elvis

Andrus

2015

7

62

.258

.309

.357

.667

20.67

Brandon

Crawford

2015

21

84

.256

.321

.462

.782

20.13

Carlos

Correa

2015

22

68

.279

.345

.512

.857

19.19

Jhonny

Peralta

2015

17

71

.275

.334

.411

.745

18.41

Xander

Bogaerts

2015

7

81

.320

.355

.421

.776

17.93

Troy

Tulowitzki

2015

17

70

.280

.337

.440

.777

17.27

Didi

Gregorius

2015

9

56

.265

.318

.370

.688

16.42

Ian

Desmond

2015

19

62

.233

.290

.384

.674

16.08

Jean

Segura

2015

6

50

.257

.281

.336

.616

16.06

Andrelton

Simmons

2015

4

44

.265

.321

.338

.660

15.98

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Corey

Seager

2016

26

72

.308

.365

.512

.877

25.44

Carlos

Correa

2016

20

96

.274

.361

.451

.811

23.88

Elvis

Andrus

2016

8

69

.302

.362

.439

.800

23.50

Jonathan

Villar

2016

19

63

.285

.369

.457

.826

21.08

Francisco

Lindor

2016

15

78

.301

.358

.435

.794

20.17

Brandon

Crawford

2016

12

84

.275

.342

.430

.772

19.38

Asdrubal

Cabrera

2016

23

62

.280

.336

.474

.810

18.52

Marcus

Semien

2016

27

75

.238

.300

.435

.735

18.09

Xander

Bogaerts

2016

21

89

.294

.356

.446

.802

17.63

Aledmys

Diaz

2016

17

65

.300

.369

.510

.879

16.74

 

    

 

  

 

      

 

Corey

Seager

2017

22

77

.295

.375

.479

.854

27.53

Carlos

Correa

2017

24

84

.315

.391

.550

.941

23.92

Francisco

Lindor

2017

33

89

.273

.337

.505

.842

23.65

Elvis

Andrus

2017

20

88

.297

.337

.471

.808

21.91

Andrelton

Simmons

2017

14

69

.278

.331

.421

.752

21.04

Tim

Beckham

2017

22

62

.278

.328

.454

.782

17.92

Zack

Cozart

2017

24

63

.297

.385

.548

.933

17.36

Trea

Turner

2017

11

45

.284

.338

.451

.789

16.22

Didi

Gregorius

2017

25

87

.287

.318

.478

.796

16.04

Orlando

Arcia

2017

15

53

.277

.324

.407

.731

15.85

 

             

125.  The Greatest Shortstops of All Time

              So now we need to summarize the greatest shortstops of all time, first of all by career value.         

Rank

First

Last

1

2

3

4

5

Points

1

Honus

Wagner

14

3

1

0

0

144

2

Alex

Rodriguez

11

2

2

0

0

132

3

Cal

Ripken

3

7

4

1

0

118

4

Derek

Jeter

1

5

5

2

1

109

5

Barry

Larkin

6

2

2

1

1

101

6

Arky

Vaughan

8

3

0

1

0

96

7

Bert

Campaneris

4

3

4

0

0

87

8

Alan

Trammell

3

2

4

1

1

86

9

Jim

Fregosi

6

1

1

1

0

79

10

Luke

Appling

3

4

4

0

2

76

11

Joe

Cronin

3

5

1

3

0

75

12

Jimmy

Rollins

0

2

3

4

0

73

13

Robin

Yount

4

2

3

3

0

72

14

Ozzie

Smith

0

2

3

4

2

71

15

Dave

Concepcion

2

3

4

0

0

69

16

Joe

Sewell

4

4

0

0

0

68

17

Ernie

Banks

5

2

0

0

0

64

17

Lou

Boudreau

2

5

2

0

1

64

19

Hanley

Ramirez

4

1

1

0

0

62

20

Pee Wee

Reese

1

5

3

2

0

61

21

Jose

Reyes

2

1

1

3

1

58

22

Maury

Wills

3

1

2

1

0

55

23

Dave

Bancroft

3

1

3

2

0

53

24

Miguel

Tejada

1

2

2

1

0

52

25

Jay

Bell

0

1

0

5

2

47

26

Tony

Fernandez

0

0

0

4

5

46

26

Nomar

Garciaparra

1

3

0

1

1

46

28

Troy

Tulowitzki

1

1

1

0

1

42

29

George

Davis

3

9

3

0

0

41

29

Vern

Stephens

2

1

2

3

0

41

31

Elvis

Andrus

1

0

2

1

0

40

32

Travis

Jackson

3

0

1

2

1

39

32

Rabbit

Maranville

2

0

4

2

1

39

34

Roy Jr.

Smalley

0

3

0

1

0

36

35

Dick

Groat

0

3

1

2

1

34

35

Garry

Templeton

1

0

2

1

1

34

37

Luis

Aparicio

0

2

0

3

2

33

37

Art

Fletcher

1

2

2

0

3

33

39

Al

Dark

2

1

0

1

3

32

40

Rico

Petrocelli

1

2

1

0

0

31

41

Donie

Bush

0

2

3

1

2

29

41

Jhonny

Peralta

1

0

1

1

0

29

41

Glenn

Wright

0

3

2

0

0

29

44

Phil

Rizzuto

2

0

0

2

4

28

44

Chris

Speier

0

1

3

0

0

28

44

Joe

Tinker

0

3

1

0

3

28

47

Eddie

Joost

1

1

2

1

0

27

48

Rick

Burleson

0

1

0

1

2

25

48

Ray

Chapman

0

3

1

0

0

25

48

Roger

Peckinpaugh

1

1

0

3

2

25

49

John

Valentin

0

1

2

1

0

25

52

Bill

Dahlen

1

6

4

4

0

24

52

Bobby

Wallace

0

1

6

2

3

24

54

Carlos

Correa

0

2

1

0

0

23

54

Edgar

Renteria

0

0

0

1

1

23

56

Omar

Vizquel

0

0

0

0

1

22

57

Ian

Desmond

0

1

0

2

0

21

58

Brandon

Crawford

0

2

0

0

0

20

58

Rafael

Furcal

0

0

0

0

2

20

58

Don

Kessinger

0

0

0

2

3

20

58

Freddie

Patek

0

0

0

2

2

20

58

Corey

Seager

2

0

0

0

0

20

 

              And we note the anomalies or flaws in the system.  Campaneris scores at 87 and Aparicio at 33, not because Campaneris was actually better than Aparicio, but because the competition in the early 1970s was soft.  This is a measure of the extent to which each shortstop was better than his competitors in the same years.

              (Pause here to allow the Omar Vizquel for the Hall of Fame crowd to scream at us.)

              We also rank the players by Peak Value:

 

Rank

First

Last

YEAR

HR

RBI

Avg

Peak

1

Honus

Wagner

1908

10

109

.354

51.97

2

Arky

Vaughan

1935

19

99

.385

38.53

3

Alex

Rodriguez

2002

57

142

.300

35.48

4

Hughie

Jennings

1896

0

121

.401

34.59

5

Cal

Ripken

1984

27

86

.304

34.04

6

Robin

Yount

1983

17

80

.308

33.88

7

Joe

Cronin

1933

5

118

.309

33.61

8

Hanley

Ramirez

2009

24

106

.342

33.21

9

Rogers

Hornsby

1917

8

66

.327

32.26

10

Nomar

Garciaparra

2000

21

96

.372

32.14

11

Luke

Appling

1943

3

80

.328

30.97

12

Ernie

Banks

1960

41

117

.271

30.37

13

Derek

Jeter

1999

24

102

.349

30.32

14

Barry

Larkin

1996

33

89

.298

30.06

15

Rico

Petrocelli

1969

40

97

.297

29.74

16

Lou

Boudreau

1948

18

106

.355

29.54

17

Vern

Stephens

1945

24

89

.289

29.49

18

Corey

Seager

2017

22

77

.295

29.47

19

Johnny

Pesky

1946

2

55

.335

29.32

20

Maury

Wills

1963

0

34

.302

29.11

21

Alan

Trammell

1987

28

105

.343

29.08

22

Herman

Long

1893

6

58

.288

28.80

23

Carlos

Correa

2017

24

84

.315

28.71

24

George

Davis

1897

10

136

.353

28.55

25

Jim

Fregosi

1970

22

82

.278

28.52

26

Eddie

Joost

1949

23

81

.263

28.46

27

Bill

Dahlen

1892

5

58

.291

27.86

28

Ozzie

Smith

1987

0

75

.303

27.78

29

Pee Wee

Reese

1949

16

73

.279

27.78

30

Freddy

Parent

1904

6

77

.291

27.62

31

Miguel

Tejada

2004

34

150

.311

27.60

32

Troy

Tulowitzki

2011

30

105

.302

27.06

33

Dave

Bancroft

1922

4

60

.321

26.98

34

Gil

McDougald

1957

13

62

.289

26.74

35

Phil

Rizzuto

1950

7

66

.324

26.71

36

Michael

Young

2005

24

91

.331

26.71

37

Jack

Glasscock

1890

1

66

.336

26.42

38

Joe

Sewell

1926

4

85

.324

26.10

39

Frank

Fennelly

1886

6

0

.249

26.08

40

Jimmy

Rollins

2008

11

59

.277

26.03

41

Jose

Reyes

2008

16

68

.297

25.90

42

Dickie

Thon

1983

20

79

.286

25.59

43

John

Valentin

1995

27

102

.298

25.49

44

Joe

Tinker

1908

6

68

.266

24.98

45

Bobby

Grich

1977

7

23

.243

24.94

46

Sam

Wise

1887

9

92

.334

24.79

47

Bobby

Wallace

1899

12

108

.295

24.78

48

Dick

Groat

1963

6

73

.319

24.75

49

Art

Fletcher

1914

2

79

.286

24.56

50

Donie

Bush

1909

0

33

.273

24.47

 

 
 

COMMENTS (47 Comments, most recent shown first)

pgaskill
Jemanji,

(1) I assume you mean ’77 rather than ’76, since that was the M's first year of existence.

(2) But ignoring that, I also assume you say the “most overlooked” because there WASN’T one? wasn’t any baton to pass? because it was a different guy almost every year, and most of them fully justified their short M's careers? That's a SLIGHT exaggeration, but it sure captures the spirit of the moment. Right?
11:41 AM May 7th
 
jemanji
Sea '76-'18 in LF, that is.


8:22 PM May 6th
 
jemanji
The most overlooked baton pass of all time? I nominate the 1976-2018 Seattle Mariners.

Which also gives Mr James the chance to study the problem from another camera angle...


8:21 PM May 6th
 
Marc Schneider
"Also, I suspect that Kissinger gets extra points for his work in the state department. Few players in those days had time in the offseason for such an demanding job."

Maybe that's why it took so long to end the Vietnam War. It could not have been easy negotiating with Le Duc Tho when you had Leo Durocher in your other ear talking about laying down a bunt.

3:53 PM May 3rd
 
Brock Hanke
Sometimes a team has what amounts to a baton passing, but no one notices because none of the players are superstars. For example, using a loose definition with occasional gap years, the Cardinals CF from the 1920s through the 1960s is Taylor Douthit to Terry Moore to Curt Flood. I noticed this because the three are very similar players. Flood was better than Moore, who was better than Douthit, but all three were, essentially, 1) Gold Glovers, year in and year out, 2) good average hitters who 3) took ordinary numbers of walks, near the league average, and 4) had no power. If Frank Lane hadn't traded Bill Virdon away, I don't know if the Cards would have traded for Flood, but Virdon played very little for the Cards. Willie McGee, Ray Lankford and Jim Edmonds were not similar players to the three, and there are larger gaps there.
5:16 AM May 2nd
 
MarisFan61
Thanks for addressing it.

So, you're saying the Win Share thing doesn't tell the story very well?

Two questions:

-- If not, why not?

-- Would you not nevertheless agree with my MAIN point about it, which is that it at least negates (completely negates) any sureness about it having been a bad baseball move, that at the very least it indicates significant doubt about that thought which has been such a cocksure belief in analytic circles?
2:10 PM May 1st
 
hotstatrat
Jeter vs. A-Rod (not so fast Marisfan)

Fielding Bible doesn't go back before 2003, but in that year it's +/- "Total" for Alex Rodriguez was +11. The higher the number the better.

For Jeter 2003-2008: -14, -16, -34, -22, -34, -11

FanGraphs goes back to 2002. A-Rod's UZR for 2002 & 2003: 12.5 & 11.2

Jeter '02-'08: -0.1, -3.7, -0.8, -15.0, -7.3, -18.0, -0.2

What about Baseball Reference? d-WAR 2000-2003 /2004-2008:
Rodriguez: 2.4, 0.1, 1.0, 1.7 / moved to third
Jeter: -1.2, -0.7, -0.9, -0.7 / -0.3, -1.7, -1.8, -1.5, -0.1

11:52 AM May 1st
 
MarisFan61
On another note, looks like my cure was effective.

But, don't we have to say, isn't it annoying that such things are rarely acknowledged? How often to we ever see people on any side of anything looking at information they hadn't been aware of which at least casts great doubt on what they have so confidently believed ("at least casts great doubt" is a restrained view of this, wouldn't you say) .....and say, hey, I guess what we've kept saying for all these years might have been wrong?

Actually I suppose I shouldn't mind too much, because if people were to do that, the argument would be over, and who wants that. :-)
12:01 AM May 1st
 
steve161
Maris: I know a bit about pronouncing Dutch, though I can't do it myself (the vowels are impossible). In Dutch, it would probably be Ahn-DREL-ton.

My Papiamento, however, is not what it used to be.
2:01 PM Apr 30th
 
srolf
bwovenstrap/b - David Barkowitz?? Really? PLEASE tell me the dog's sire was named Sam.
7:41 AM Apr 30th
 
Robinsong
ARod’s years at third help his rankings at short. Moving also helped Jeter’s ranking since he was no longer competing against ARod. That Bill counts ARod’s years at third (aside from the fact he said it several times in this series) is evident from the 15 years in the top 3 that Bill tallied, when ARod is listed at short only(!) 8 times
10:52 PM Apr 29th
 
MarisFan61
BTW, anyone know how really to pronounce ANDRELTON?
I think we better know!

I always thought AN-dr'l-t'n.
Through most of the current series against the Yanks, the announcers have seemed to say an-DREL-t'n.
10:15 PM Apr 29th
 
MarisFan61
True about the two J. Valentin's, but if we wanna talk about the problem of having people know which one you are......
I give you Alex Gonzalez. :-)

Quick: Which one hit the big HR in the '03 post-season, and which one made the big error in the '03 post-season?
Right: That one, and the other one. :-)

Whenever I heard anything about an Alex Gonzalez, I either had to look it up to see which one he was, or was just left not knowing.

Luckily, the positional rankings on basebal-ref.com are very helpful in this regard.
Alex Gonzalez the 1st is 174th all time. Alex Gonzalez the 2nd is 176th.
And surely I don't have to tell you which of those is which -- clearly one of them was the better. :-)

The "most similar" player to Alex Gonalez at age 23 was Alex Gonzalez.
Similarly at ages 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, and 33, which was when he retired.
The most similar to the other Alex Gonzalez at ages 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, and 33 was Alex Gonzalez.

BTW, this article shows Alex Gonzalez among the top 10 for 2010.
It doesn't tell us which Alex Gonzalez. :-)

(Pardon all the smilies, can't help it. This is a riot.)
9:52 PM Apr 29th
 
thedanholmes
John Valentin had a solid career that goes overlooked. There are several reasons, why, IMO:

1. He got a late start, stuck in the Red Sox organization because the baseball people were suspicious of his defensive ability. Instead they played the no-hit Luis Rivera for a few years. Valentin didn't play his first MLB game until he was 25. Someone made a mistake there, as Valentin was clearly a better shortstop than Rivera for a few seasons while he was in the minors. He was a talented young player: in college he'd been teammates with Craig Biggio, and no one evr thought Biggio was a better player (not at that time).

2. There was a guy named Jose Valentin who debuted the same year for a team in the same league, and who ended up hitting more home runs and playing longer. Some people confused them.

3. Valentin came along as part of the next generation of shortstops after the heralded Yount/Ripken/Trammell/Thon group who brought offense to the position and signaled a paradigm shift. Valentin wasn't in that class of player, but he was in a next group who were still good all-around shortstops. Still, he suffered by comparison.

4. Once Nomar came along the Sox shifted Valentin to second base and then third base. This decision wasn't as automatic as many people think: in 1995 Valentin (in just his third full season) finished ninth in MVP voting. But, at any rate the move from short signaled a downward shift in his career. Much of that is Valentin's own doing, but some of it is the lack of opportunity.

5. His career was short: his last season as a regular was when he was 32. That's not extremely unusual for a middle infielder, but given his late start that left Valentin with a brief window.

Still, Valentin did some very good things. He had five 4-WAR seasons and his best season (8.3 WAR) is better than any season Nomar ever had. I have him #49 on my all-time shortstop rankings (http://baseballegg.com/how-we-ranked-baseballs-greatest-players/baseballs-greatest-shortstops-of-all-time/), which is simply a coincidence.
9:37 PM Apr 29th
 
MarisFan61
About Jeter and A-Rod:
I know that I don't have much of a reputation for paying attention to facts :-) ....nor for having due regard for analysis, when seat-of-the-pants and man-love are available -- but I've got to say, it is astonishing how much mistaken habitual seat-of-the-pants stuff gets said on this subject by people who believe so strongly in facts and analysis.

Let's look at some facts.

But first, since I don't want to lose my reputation for bull$hit :-) ....a little subjective stuff.

Well before A-Rod ever came to the Yanks and before there was ever any issue of which one of them plays which position, I was saying that I doubted A-Rod would be able (ABLE) to keep playing SS at a high level -- because of body type. I thought it was unlikely he would retain the agility -- and I don't think you can deny that this may have been valid. If Jeter had been moved to 3B to let A-Rod play SS, I think there's a high chance they would have had to trade positions within a couple of years.

But besides that (and I won't repeat my thing about "the value of having a player like Jeter in the middle of the diamond," which I think was actually the main thing).....

Let's look at some Win Share numbers.

You all do believe in that, right?
Good. :-)

2004 was the year the Yanks got A-Rod and he moved to 3B.

Here are A-Rod's Fielding Win Share numbers in the years leading up to then:

1999: 5.7
2000: 8.0
2001: 5.7
2002: 6.9
2003: 6.3

That's how good he had been. You don't think he was going to get better as a defensive SS, do you?
OK. Good.

Here are Jeter's Fielding Win Share numbers in the immediately following years.
Tell me how you can even just make the case that A-Rod would have been a lot better, to say nothing of being in the habit of ridiculing the idea of keeping Jeter where he was.

2004: 7.8
2005: 6.7
2006: 5.2
2007: 5.5
2008: 4.7
2009: 5.7
2010: 7.6

Be it hereby resolved that the sabermetric community is now cured of the habit. :-)
8:55 PM Apr 29th
 
stevebogus
Regarding Mark Bernsteins's comment on Ernie Banks:

Banks had knee issues which were partly responsible for the move from SS. It was an old injury he suffered while in the Army, and he re-injured it in 1961. The "college of coaches" approach didn't help, as Ernie was in LF because Vedie Himsl wanted to try Jerry Kindall at SS. Banks ran into the wall in Candlestick Park. He never went on the DL for that, but his 700+ consecutive-game streak ended shortly afterward. While Banks finished the 1961 season at SS the Cubs decided he needed to move elsewhere. He was 31 when the 1962 season began, with a bad knee. If they had MRI and modern surgery at the time, Banks would possibly have recuperated and remained at SS for a while. He played for years on that knee, finally going to the DL in 1970.

3:37 PM Apr 29th
 
BobGill
"I'm surprised to find a number of players whom I think of as being "simply good players" rank this high. John Valentin (49)? Don Kissinger (58)? Banks, Pee Wee Reese, and Hanley Ramirez are tightly bunched here; am I alone at finding that a bit odd?"

I don't think it's that odd. As I see it, these rankings are not meant to be taken as the final word on the subject; they just offer a fresh perspective that might prove useful in some cases. Bill even said something like that in one of the earlier lists. I can't recall what position it was, but his comment was "Do I really expect you to believe Lesser Player A was three times as good as Better Player B? Of course not. This is just a different way of looking at things."

Also, I suspect that Kissinger gets extra points for his work in the state department. Few players in those days had time in the offseason for such an demanding job.

2:11 PM Apr 29th
 
Manushfan
Oh and am in agreement here-loving the the return of Bill's Peak Value and Career Value lists. Those are great.
1:10 PM Apr 29th
 
MarkBernstein
No harm in saying that Jeter->3rd was a bad idea (though it was discussed at the time). 2B would have worked. Acquiring an HOF SS and trading your incumbent All-Star SS would also have worked, and I think that’s what lots of people expected would happen.

The point remains: it's entirely possible that ARod lost a bunch of years at short, and Jeter gained them, for no particular reason. That winds up having a real impact on the career rankings here, but it's not like Jeter had a skill he could call on for all those extra seasons.

I'm surprised to find a number of players whom I think of as being "simply good players" rank this high. John Valentin (49)? Don Kissinger (58)? Banks, Pee Wee Reese, and Hanley Ramirez are tightly bunched here; am I alone at finding that a bit odd?
1:02 PM Apr 29th
 
Manushfan
Yeah my namesake was a corner fielder, he played LF most of his run, and like Bill sez, was only a starter in CF 25-27. Mr Manush was a LF afterwards save '37 in Brooklyn. I usually think of him as being a Senator for what it's worth, hard to say as he bounced around alot.


1:01 PM Apr 29th
 
CharlesSaeger
@hotstatrat: The Yankees tried trading Canó twice (Carlos Beltrán, Randy Johnson) before bringing him to the majors. Which was insane, but shows just how much they thought of him.
10:58 AM Apr 29th
 
wdr1946
Another notable passing of the torch was on the NY Giants at shortstop, c. 1895- 1936, which went George Davis- Bill Dahlen- Art Fletcher- Dave Bancroft- Travis Jackson. The Giants stopped winning when they couldn't find a successor.
2:24 AM Apr 29th
 
thedanholmes
I think we need leeway on baton passes, as Mr James proposes. In my mind, if a player HELPS his successor ascend to the starting role that makes it even more of a baton pass. Freehan retired after the '76 season, but Parrish was in spring training with Detroit the following spring and Freehan was working with him (as he did the next few years). By 1978, Parrish had succeeded Freehan as the next regular catcher. Milt May was just a placeholder while Parrish learned how to block pitches.

Dickey did the same with Berra, Crosetti somewhat with Rizzuto. But Heilmann most certainly got no such tutoring from Crawford. That didn't happen back then. And obviously the "tender baton pass" (if we will) only happens when the predecessor retires with the team after years of service. Kaline, for example played his last game in '74 but he was working with Ben Ogilvie and later Kirk Gibson to become the next great right fielder for the franchise. YMMV on what a baton pass is.
11:45 PM Apr 28th
 
klamb819
I hope you do that, hotstatrat. Here's another thing to consider:

The Reds' shortstop string actually lasted 53 years, from Roy McMillan's first season as a regular, 1952, through Larkin's last in 2004, with Cardenas and Concepcion between. There was one gap season, 1969, after the Reds traded Cardenas. But they traded him because they knew they had 21-year-old Concepcion a year away. That might explain other one-year gaps in baton passing.

Those four Cincinnati shortstops had totals of 27 All Star Games & 12 Gold Gloves (McMillan 4 & 1, Cardenas 2 & 3, Concepcion 9 & 5, Larkin 12 & 3). Cardenas was traded for Jim Merritt, who had a knack for pitching when the Reds scored a lot of runs :–). In 1969-70, Merritt went 37-21 with a 94 ERA+ and average run support of 5.05 (117% of NL average).
6:46 PM Apr 28th
 
bjames
I don't think it is insulting to say than an IDEA is insane. You're characterizing the person; you're characterizing the idea. Ideas cannot be insulted.
5:39 PM Apr 28th
 
bjames
I think you should get about a two-year leeway on a baton pass, at least so long as you are dealing with legitimate "career" players. Earle Combs wasn't really the Yankee center fielder in '34-'35, and actually, DiMaggio wasn't their primary center fielder in '36; I think Ben Chapman was the primary center fielder all three years. But it seems legitimate to me, because Combs, DiMaggio and Mantle were all career Yankees. Cobb to Manush. . .not really, because Manush only played center for the Tigers for a few years and then became more of a journeyman. Freehan to Parrish. . .c'mon; there's a gap there, but it's kind of OK because Parrish spent a long time with the Tigers before bouncing around.
5:38 PM Apr 28th
 
hotstatrat
I thank Dan Holmes as the only reader adding to the list of baton passes. I am responding to his comment, by examing his suggestions and looking for others, but it is turning into a long essay from which there is no quick escape. Just to summarize, though, as he indicated: some of these baton passes are not 100% legit depending on how strict your definition of a baton pass is. The DiMaggio to Mantle and Ted Williams to Yaz ones are 100% legitimate. And about the only other one discussed that is 100% would be Lazzeri to Gordon.

The Sam Crawford to Harry Heilmann is a more legitimate baton pass from one team's long time Hall of Fame player to another at the same position than some of these others suggested. But even here, Heilmann moved to first-base for a couple of years after he replaced Crawford in right-field.

If I finish it, I will turn it into an article and submit it.
2:10 PM Apr 28th
 
hotstatrat
Keep it civil, please, Charles Saeger. Someone could call your suggestion insane, because Robinson Cano was coming along rapidly as the Yankee second-baseman of the future. But that wouldn't be nice or fair. It was just a suggestion made without considering all that was known by the Yankees at the time. I myself had a long time thinking that moving the Gold Glove shortstop to third in order to preserve Derek Jeter's star was insane, but I didn't understand the whole picture.

Besides that, Mark Berntstein's comment wasn't even really a suggestion so much as a supposition.
2:01 PM Apr 28th
 
raincheck
Without having looked back at the other positions due to excellent reason of pure laziness, it looks like HOF voters have done an unusually poor job of understanding shortstops and who deserves to be in and who doesn’t.
11:25 AM Apr 28th
 
DaveNJnews
Speaking as a Phillies fan, I am not (contrary to the subhead above) irritated by the relative rankings of Ramirez and Rollins.

I am more surprised that Rollins ranks as high as he does career value.
11:06 AM Apr 28th
 
CharlesSaeger
@MarkBernstein: As bad a shortstop as Jeter was, what you propose is insane. Jeter's defensive issue was that he didn't have a shortstop's arm, which gets worse if he plays third.

Jeter should have played second. Since the Yankees' regular second baseman for 2004 was Miguel Cairo, it's not like Jeter would have fought another star for that position.
9:52 AM Apr 28th
 
wovenstrap
I have a silly dog name that touches on Bill's other publishing topic. Friends of mine -- Red Sox fans, actually -- have a wonderful corgi named David Barkowitz.
7:08 PM Apr 27th
 
BobGill
One of my favorite things about this series is that it revives the twin concepts of peak value and career value. I thought that was one of the most appealing ideas in the first Historical Abstract, and I'm happy to see it return in this new form.
5:04 PM Apr 27th
 
bhalbleib
Cardinals had Hornsby to Frisch at 2B (traded for each other I believe) but there is an almost 10 year gap between Frisch and Schoendienst
4:24 PM Apr 27th
 
MarkBernstein
I understand this is baked into the system, but one of the anomalies of the method for shortstops is that the rankings depend heavily on minor issues of context.

In a parallel universe, the Yankees played Jeter at 3B, ARod at SS, from 2004. A ton of Jeter's career value at short depends on that decision.

In a parallel universe, Ernie Banks stays a few years more at SS. He didn't because Banks didn't look like a shortstop, and Andre Rodgers did. That Andre Rodgers also hit like a shortstop wasn't a big deal in 1961. In his early 30s, perhaps Banks was already aging out at short, but if he'd played in this century, he'd have been given every opportunity to stay.

There's nothing to be done about this — we're evaluating shortstops that were, not shortstops that might have been. But it's worth a passing thought.
4:14 PM Apr 27th
 
thedanholmes
Bill Freehan to Lance Parrish

For the Yanks, you can extend the HOF center field line back to Combs, so it goes Combs-DImaggio-Mantle (Murcer was supposed to be next...alas)

For Yankees again: Dickey to Berra to Howard to Munson ... pretty damn good.

I always liked Williams to Yaz to Rice to Greenwell (oops)

The old Senators had fantastic luck at first base. From 1916, before World War I, to 1955, after Korea, they had three excellent first basemen: Joe Judge, Joe Kuhel, and Mickey Vernon. There was only about two years where one of those wasn't starting, but one of the three was always on the roster.

Dodgers (minus a very brief interruption) had Reese-Wills-Russell at shortstop for more than four decades.

For almost two decades the Bombers had a HOFer at second base: Lazzeri and Gordon.
3:50 PM Apr 27th
 
MWeddell
That's a big gap between Honus Wagner and the field in that last chart. Yowzers.
3:47 PM Apr 27th
 
bhalbleib
Yankees CF baton pass is actually pretty impressive, start with Combs (who played thru 1935), then JoeD starts in 1936, Mantle's first year was JoeD's last year (1951) and Murcer had a couple cups of coffee (playing SS!!) before Mantle retired and took over in CF the year after he retired. That's 3 HOFers plus a really good player. Yankee catchers almost works from Dickey all the way through Munson's untimely death, but Elston Howard was traded in mid '67 and Thurman's rookie year was 1969.
3:47 PM Apr 27th
 
villageelliott
"Concepcion didn’t make the Hall of Fame, at least yet, but we should add that to the list of "baton passes", like Ted Williams to Carl Yastrzemski to Jim Rice and DiMaggio to Mantle and Bill Dickey to Yogi Berra."

Also Musial to Brock
3:21 PM Apr 27th
 
youngc
In basketball, they spoke of “passing the torch,” until Kobe Bryant left and shot the torch instead of passing it ...
12:40 PM Apr 27th
 
hotstatrat
Baton passes everyone?

The best I can come up with here in Toronto is Fred McGriff to John Olerud to Carlos Delgado - neither of whom spent anything close to all of their careers here, but they were all excellent players who came up through the organization and succeeded each other at first-base.

As for my Tigers, I got nothing. I thought we could count Sam Crawford to Harry Heilmann, but they missed by a few years.
12:33 PM Apr 27th
 
bearbyz
There must be something wrong with George Davis is wrong somewhere. He has 15 times in the top 3 but only 41 points.
11:49 AM Apr 27th
 
Zeke**
@colinb: Well, Seager's 2017 was the 18th best shortstop season of all time. Seager's in a tie for 58th with the immortal Rafael Furcal and 3 others. That's a yuuuge delta between peak and career, which is what we'd expect because of his just 3 years and change you mentioned.

Conveniently, I think the early-2000s SS debate Bill alluded to happens to show the utility of the 2 charts perfectly...Nomah at his best was better than Jeter ever was, but the Captain blows him away on career value. (And of course A-Rod was better than both of them however you wan to measure it.)
11:36 AM Apr 27th
 
colinb
Interesting that Seager, with just 3 years and change under his belt, already ranks as the 18th best SS all time by this method.
8:34 AM Apr 27th
 
Robinsong
In addition to Campaneris and Fregosi, I was surprised how high Wills and Ramirez ranked on both career and peak value. Thanks, Bill for giving us this fresh look
7:53 AM Apr 27th
 
CharlesSaeger
Request: Bill, when you start ranking outfielders, can you explain Win Shares Fielding for them? You really haven’t done so since the Win Shares book and obviously the system has changed a lot since then. Your other similar series all peter out before you get to them.
7:49 AM Apr 27th
 
rtallia
The 'Bert Campaneris For the Hall of Fame' sleeper cell is officially awake...
5:50 AM Apr 27th
 
 
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