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Monday Morning Blog, Part One

May 22, 2009

1.  Dividing Lines

 

            When I started writing about baseball in 1975, it was fairly easy to divide baseball history into eras.   There was the 19th century (1876-1899), the Dead Ball Era (1900-1919), the Era Between the Wars (1920-1945), the Post-War Era (1946-1960), and the Expansion Era (1961-1975).

            But the expansion era is now too long to be simply an era, and. . .where do you divide it?    The DH rule is a natural dividing line, but it makes the early expansion era too short (1961-1972).   The coming of free agency is a dividing line, but. . .same problem.   What works?

            I’ve given up on it.   I’ve started dividing baseball history into 20-year groups—19th century (1876-1899), the Dead Ball era (1900-1919), the Babe Ruth era (1920-1939), the War and Post-War era (1940-1959), the early expansion era (1960-1979), the early free agent era (1980-1999), and the 21st century (2000-2009).   Anybody have a better idea?

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

 

2.  Exhausting Expansion

 

            How long does it take for an expansion team to be no longer an expansion team? 

            At least 40 years.

            The thirty major league teams can be divided into 16 “original” franchises and 14 expansion teams.    The overall record of the 14 expansion teams, in their first seasons of play, is 849-1412, a .375 percentage (average 61-101).    It takes eleven years for expansion teams, on average, to reach .500:

 

Ex Year

Teams

Tot W

Tot L

WPct

Avg W

Avg L

1

14

849

1412

.375

61

101

2

14

917

1255

.422

66

90

3

14

949

1276

.427

68

91

4

14

971

1268

.434

69

91

5

14

993

1164

.460

71

83

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6

14

1005

1259

.444

72

90

7

14

1016

1249

.449

73

89

8

14

1065

1200

.470

76

86

9

14

1091

1176

.481

78

84

10

14

1124

1144

.496

80

82

11

14

1167

1078

.520

83

77

 

            Up to that point there is regular progress.   After the eleventh year, however, expansion teams go back under .500 for most of the next thirty years:

 

Ex Year

Teams

Tot W

Tot L

WPct

Avg W

Avg L

11

14

1167

1078

.520

83

77

12

12

945

982

.490

79

82

13

12

813

913

.471

68

76

14

12

966

974

.498

81

81

15

12

981

963

.505

82

80

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

16

12

936

1005

.482

78

84

17

10

814

804

.503

81

80

18

10

735

786

.483

74

79

19

10

796

790

.502

80

79

20

10

737

766

.490

74

77

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

21

10

759

752

.502

76

75

22

10

783

835

.484

78

84

23

10

800

819

.494

80

82

24

10

838

781

.518

84

78

25

10

860

759

.531

86

76

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

26

10

756

677

.528

76

68

27

10

782

764

.506

78

76

28

10

782

835

.484

78

84

29

10

788

830

.487

79

83

30

10

779

839

.481

78

84

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

31

10

770

848

.476

77

85

32

10

733

887

.452

73

89

33

8

558

642

.465

70

80

34

8

511

654

.439

64

82

35

8

603

658

.478

75

82

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

36

8

611

683

.472

76

85

37

8

651

645

.502

81

81

38

8

663

634

.511

83

79

39

8

645

652

.497

81

82

40

8

615

680

.475

77

85

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

41

4

307

340

.474

77

85

42

4

324

323

.501

81

81

43

4

311

337

.480

78

84

44

4

353

295

.545

88

74

45

4

353

295

.545

88

74

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

46

4

330

318

.509

83

80

47

4

344

303

.532

86

76

48

2

179

145

.552

89

73

 

            There are ups and downs, and the data is open to some interpretation.     From years 31 to 35, however, the overall winning percentage of expansion teams is just .463, and in years 36 to 40 expansion teams are still more than 100 games under .500, at .492.  

            There are ten expansion teams which have histories of at least 32 years, eight which have been around 40 years, and four which go beyond 40 years.  There isn’t enough data there to give a rock-solid interpretation of it, but my interpretation is this:  that expansion teams remain expansion teams for at least 40 years, because it takes at least that long to develop a mature fan base.  

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

 

3.  Lou Brock and Johnny Damon

 

A reader asked me to compare Johnny Damon to Lou Brock, suggesting that their numbers were similar up to Damon’s current age.
            OK. . ..Damon reached the majors late in the season at age 21, with the Kansas City Royals.    Brock reached the majors 34 years earlier or a year later, at age 22.   At ages 23 and 24, the players had seasons of very comparable value:

 

Year

Player

Age

G

AB

HR

RBI

SB

AVG

SLG

OBA

OPS

WS

LS

WPct

1995

Damon

21

47

188

3

23

7

.282

.441

.324

.765

6

4

.574

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1961

Brock

22

4

11

0

0

0

.091

.091

.167

.258

0

1

.000

1996

Damon

22

145

517

6

50

25

.271

.368

.313

.680

12

16

.434

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1962

Brock

23

123

434

9

35

16

.263

.412

.319

.731

10

14

.426

1997

Damon

23

146

472

8

48

16

.275

.386

.338

.723

12

13

.475

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1963

Brock

24

148

547

9

37

24

.258

.382

.300

.682

16

16

.503

1998

Damon

24

161

642

18

66

26

.277

.439

.339

.779

16

17

.494

 

            Damon, with more playing time, was ahead at this age; Damon was 47-50, and Brock was 26-30.     Both were essentially .500 players at this early stage of their careers.

            Brock started slowly in 1964, aged 25, and was traded to the Cardinals early in the season.   His career caught fire the instant he was traded—but Damon also had a good season at that age.   Both players at age 25 hit .300 for the first time in their careers, each player hit 14 homers, and their stolen base totals and OPS are similar:

 

Year

Player

Age

G

AB

HR

RBI

SB

AVG

SLG

OBA

OPS

WS

LS

WPct

1964

Brock

25

52

215

2

14

10

.251

.340

.300

.640

5

8

.375

1964

Brock

25

103

419

12

44

33

.348

.527

.387

.915

17

6

.741

1999

Damon

25

145

583

14

77

36

.307

.477

.379

.856

18

12

.592

 

            At age 26, again, both players had similar seasons:

 

Year

Player

Age

G

AB

HR

RBI

SB

AVG

SLG

OBA

OPS

WS

LS

WPct

1965

Brock

26

155

631

16

69

63

.288

.445

.345

.791

19

15

.563

2000

Damon

26

159

655

16

88

46

.327

.495

.382

.877

21

11

.663

 

            In a Win Shares/Loss Shares comparison, Damon is still ahead through age 26, 85-73 vs. 67-59.  

            Over the next four years, however—the prime years of ages 27-30—Brock substantially outperformed Damon:

 

 

Year

Player

Age

G

AB

HR

RBI

SB

AVG

SLG

OBA

OPS

WS

LS

WPct

1966

Brock

27

156

643

15

46

74

.285

.429

.320

.749

21

15

.588

2001

Damon

27

155

644

9

49

27

.256

.363

.324

.687

17

19

.483

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1967

Brock

28

159

689

21

76

52

.299

.472

.327

.799

25

12

.667

2002

Damon

28

154

623

14

63

31

.286

.443

.356

.799

22

11

.670

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1968

Brock

29

159

660

6

51

62

.279

.418

.328

.746

27

10

.741

2003

Damon

29

145

608

12

67

30

.273

.405

.345

.750

17

16

.517

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1969

Brock

30

157

655

12

47

53

.298

.434

.349

.782

24

11

.689

2004

Damon

30

150

621

20

94

19

.304

.477

.380

.857

21

10

.672

 

            At age 27 Brock’s numbers are just better.   At ages 28 to 30 the raw numbers are about the same, but Brock was performing in an environment where one run had much more impact on the game than was Damon.   In 1968 the National League ERA was 2.98.  In 2003 the American League ERA was 4.53.   Brock’s .746 OPS trumps Damon’s .750.   By the age of 30, Brock’s career won-lost record was 164-106; Damon’s was 163-129.   Brock was 12 games ahead.   In their early 30s the two players were close, but Brock has gained an additional two games:

 

Year

Player

Age

G

AB

HR

RBI

SB

AVG

SLG

OBA

OPS

WS

LS

WPct

1970

Brock

31

155

664

13

57

51

.304

.422

.361

.783

18

17

.511

2005

Damon

31

148

624

10

75

18

.316

.439

.366

.805

21

11

.655

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1971

Brock

32

157

640

7

61

64

.312

.425

.385

.810

23

11

.672

2006

Damon

32

149

593

24

80

25

.285

.482

.359

.841

20

11

.654

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1972

Brock

33

153

621

3

42

63

.311

.393

.359

.752

20

14

.598

2007

Damon

33

141

533

12

63

27

.270

.396

.351

.747

13

14

.492

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1973

Brock

34

160

650

7

63

70

.297

.398

.364

.762

24

13

.651

2008

Damon

34

143

555

17

71

29

.303

.461

.375

.836

18

10

.634

 

            Brock, playing in a speed era, regularly led the league in stolen bases.  Damon, playing in a power era, has de-emphasized base stealing as he has aged, and concentrated on hitting for some power—which Brock certainly could have done, just as Damon certainly could have stolen more bases.  Through age 34 Brock had a career won-lost equivalent of 249-161; Damon is 235-175.   Brock is 14 games ahead.

            At the age of 35 Lou Brock stole 118 bases, which was a major league record at the time, and finished second in the NL MVP voting.   Damon, at age 35, is also off to a red-hot start, moving into double figures in home runs in mid-May.   After age 35 Brock’s career went into a normal aging decline pattern, and he finished with a career won-lost equivalent of 325-245:

 

Player

Age

G

AB

HR

RBI

SB

AVG

SLG

OBA

OPS

WS

LS

WPct

Brock

35

153

635

3

48

118

.306

.381

.368

.749

21

14

.589

Brock

36

136

528

3

47

56

.309

.400

.359

.758

16

13

.562

Brock

37

133

498

4

67

56

.301

.394

.356

.749

14

15

.483

Brock

38

141

489

2

46

35

.272

.354

.317

.670

10

17

.378

Brock

39

92

298

0

12

17

.221

.252

.263

.514

4

13

.236

Brock

40

120

405

5

38

21

.304

.398

.337

.735

11

11

.487

 

            Strictly as offensive players, Brock rates a significant edge:

 

            Lou Brock on offense:  268-163  .622

            Johnny Damon on offense:        193-136  .587

            Lou Brock through age 34:       206-104  .665

 

            But gives back some of it on defense:

 

            Lou Brock in the field:     56-  82  .407

            Johnny Damon in the field:           42-  39  .519

            Lou Brock through age 34:         42-  57  .426

 

            Lou Brock was not a good outfielder.   This is the primary reason the Cubs got rid of him.   They had Billy Williams in left field; they wanted Brock to play center.   Brock didn’t read the ball off the bat well, didn’t get good jumps, and didn’t finish the play well.   Damon, despite his infamous throwing arm, is a better outfielder.  

            So. . .Johnny Damon vs. Lou Brock is not a crazy comparison.   I see Lou Brock as being a little bit better, 14 games better through age 34, and that’s a meaningful separation, considering that Brock is not an overwhelming Hall of Famer to begin with.  But we estimated after last season that Johnny Damon had a 38% chance to get 3,000 career hits, and nothing’s happened yet this year to cause us to say that that’s too high.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

 

4.  Dave Parker vs. Dwight Evans

 

            I keep getting letters from somebody who asks if I can compare Dave Parker to Jim Rice.   Well, no, actually, I can’t.  I work for the Red Sox.   Figure it out.

            I can however, compare Dave Parker to Dwight Evans, which is actually a better comparison.   Dave Parker and Dwight Evans were both born in 1951.  Both were right fielders.   Dwight Evans came to the majors in 1972, and played through 1991.  Parker came up in 1973, and played through 1991.   Evans hit 385 homers; Parker hit 339.  Evans scored 1,470 runs in his career and drove in 1,384.   Parker drove in 109 more (1,493) but scored 198 less (1,272).  

            Evans was in the majors in 1972 and a quasi-regular in 1973/74, while Parker didn’t become a regular until 1975, so Evans started out ahead:

 

Player

Year

G

AB

HR

RBI

AVG

SLG

OBA

OPS

WS

LS

WPct

Evans

1972

18

57

1

6

.263

.404

.344

.747

2

2

.532

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evans

1973

119

282

10

32

.223

.383

.320

.703

8

9

.487

Parker

1973

54

139

4

14

.288

.453

.308

.761

4

3

.556

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evans

1974

133

463

10

70

.281

.421

.335

.756

15

11

.570

Parker

1974

73

220

4

29

.282

.409

.322

.731

6

6

.514

 

            Evans’ career record through 1974 is equivalent to 25-22; Parker, to 10-9.  Like Damon and Brock, they started out as more-or-less .500 players.  

            Over the next five years, however, Dave Parker was very much a better player than Evans.   In those five years Parker won an MVP Award (1978), finished third in the MVP voting twice (1975 and 1977), and was mentioned in the MVP voting every year.   Evans, in this era, was never mentioned in the MVP voting.   Parker won two batting titles in this era, won three Gold Gloves, and was the MVP of the All Star game. He ran well and threw well, and in the late 1970s was often cited as the best player in baseball. 

 

Player

Year

G

AB

HR

RBI

AVG

SLG

OBA

OPS

WS

LS

WPct

Evans

1975

128

412

13

56

.274

.456

.353

.809

14

9

.611

Parker

1975

148

558

25

101

.308

.541

.357

.898

24

8

.755

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evans

1976

146

501

17

62

.242

.431

.324

.755

15

15

.502

Parker

1976

138

537

13

90

.313

.475

.349

.824

19

10

.652

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evans

1977

73

230

14

36

.287

.526

.363

.889

8

5

.614

Parker

1977

159

637

21

88

.338

.531

.397

.927

27

6

.824

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evans

1978

147

497

24

63

.247

.449

.336

.784

16

14

.530

Parker

1978

148

581

30

117

.334

.585

.394

.979

26

4

.867

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evans

1979

152

489

21

58

.274

.456

.364

.820

16

13

.557

Parker

1979

158

622

25

94

.310

.526

.380

.906

25

7

.776

 

            By the end of 1979 Parker had a career won-lost equivalent of 132-44, a stunning .748 percentage, while Evans was a little over .500 at 95-78.  

            In 1980, however, Evans (for the first time since 1974) out-played Parker, albeit by a narrow margin:

 

Player

Year

G

AB

HR

RBI

AVG

SLG

OBA

OPS

WS

LS

WPct

Evans

1980

148

463

18

60

.266

.484

.358

.842

17

11

.614

Parker

1980

139

518

17

79

.295

.458

.327

.785

16

12

.562

           

            Parker still out-hit Evans by almost 30 points and drove in more runs, but Evans’ on-base and slugging percentages were better, and his OPS was 57 points better.   In 1981 the thin margin between them suddenly became a chasm:

 

Player

Year

G

AB

HR

RBI

AVG

SLG

OBA

OPS

WS

LS

WPct

Evans

1981

108

412

22

71

.296

.522

.415

.937

19

3

.877

Parker

1981

67

240

9

48

.258

.454

.287

.742

6

7

.443

 

            Parker by the early 1980s was getting heavily into cocaine use and, perhaps more damaging to his career, was also putting on weight.   Unlike Evans, who was—and is—extremely trim, Parker was always a big man, with a very large torso.   Over the next three years Evans had his best seasons, while Parker’s career hit the rocks:

 

Player

Year

G

AB

HR

RBI

AVG

SLG

OBA

OPS

WS

LS

WPct

Evans

1982

162

609

32

98

.292

.534

.402

.936

24

9

.727

Parker

1982

73

244

6

29

.270

.447

.330

.776

6

8

.443

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evans

1983

126

470

22

58

.238

.436

.338

.774

13

13

.503

Parker

1983

144

552

12

69

.279

.411

.311

.722

14

17

.454

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evans

1984

162

630

32

104

.295

.532

.388

.920

23

11

.674

Parker

1984

156

607

16

94

.285

.410

.328

.738

15

17

.465

 

            In 1979, Parker was 35 ½ games ahead of Evans.   Evans cut that to 34 games in 1980, to 25 games in 1981, to 16 ½ games in 1982, to 15 games in 1983, and to eight games in 1984.  By the end of 1984 Evan’s career won-lost record was 192-125 (.606), while Parker’s was 189-106 (.641).

            By 1983 Parker’s career appeared to be nearly over.  He was past 30, and he had been a sub-.500 player for four years—with a weight problem, bad knees, a drug habit in his past and not the best reputation as a teammate.    Not a lot of careers can get beyond a combination like that.

            Parker, however, was a phenomenal talent, and, back home in Cincinnati, he rallied.  He drove in 125 runs in 1985, and 116 more in 1986:

 

Player

Year

G

AB

HR

RBI

AVG

SLG

OBA

OPS

WS

LS

WPct

Evans

1985

159

617

29

78

.263

.454

.378

.832

21

14

.605

Parker

1985

160

635

34

125

.312

.551

.365

.916

23

12

.668

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evans

1986

152

529

26

97

.259

.476

.376

.853

19

11

.647

Parker

1986

162

637

31

116

.273

.477

.330

.807

17

18

.495

 

            Parker’s triple-crown numbers were all better than Evans’, and, in that era, that was what most people focused on.   But Parker by 1986 was slow.  He was 5 for 18 as a base stealer in 1985, and 1 for 7 in 1986.  He grounded into 26 double plays in 1985, and 18 more in 1986.   Evans by now was much faster—and drawing twice as many walks.   Evans made fewer outs and scored more runs.  Despite driving in 116 runs in 1986, Parker was in fact nothing more than an average player—and Evans was still gaining on him.   In 1987 Parker and Evans more or less traded triple-crown statistics—while Evans kept his other advantages:

 

Player

Year

G

AB

HR

RBI

AVG

SLG

OBA

OPS

WS

LS

WPct

Evans

1987

154

541

34

123

.305

.569

.417

.986

21

7

.752

Parker

1987

153

589

26

97

.253

.433

.311

.744

14

19

.414

 

            This put Evans ahead of Parker in the career won-lost equivalent, 254-156 for Evans, 243-155 for Parker.

            From there on out, Evans outplayed Parker in every year except 1990:

 

Player

Year

G

AB

HR

RBI

AVG

SLG

OBA

OPS

WS

LS

WPct

Evans

1988

149

559

21

111

.293

.487

.375

.861

19

11

.632

Parker

1988

101

377

12

55

.257

.406

.319

.725

10

9

.529

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evans

1989

146

520

20

100

.285

.463

.394

.858

18

9

.681

Parker

1989

144

553

22

97

.264

.432

.308

.741

12

17

.407

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evans

1990

123

445

13

63

.249

.391

.349

.740

10

13

.426

Parker

1990

157

610

21

92

.289

.451

.330

.781

16

15

.510

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evans

1991

101

270

6

38

.270

.378

.393

.771

9

6

.591

Parker

1991

119

466

11

56

.232

.358

.279

.638

8

16

.320

Parker

1991

13

36

0

3

.333

.444

.400

.844

1

1

.639

 

            Dave Parker’s final career win shares and loss shares are 289-212, .577—while Evans’ are 310-196, or .610.   Parker meets neither of the standards that represent a Hall of Famer, 300 career Win Shares or 100 plus-wins, while Evans clears both of those benchmarks.

 

            Now, let’s note a couple of things.   First, Dave Parker’s Peak Value is higher.    Parker’s best four seasons (1975, 1977, 1978 and 1979) score at 24-8, 27-6, 26-4 and 25-7.   Evans, who lost his best season to the strike in 1981, can’t match those seasons.  

            And second, there may be a problem with our defensive evaluations of right fielders.   We credit Parker with a career defensive won-lost record of 43-68, a .388 percentage—but Evans hardly any better at 48-70, a .407 percentage.  

            Parker won three Gold Gloves.   Evans won eight.   I could give you reasons for the evaluations we have, but fans of the two players will not accept that these men should be rated as below-average defensive players.   And, in truth, the reasons I might give you are probably not all that persuasive.    We’ll work on it.

            But that has to do with Evans and Parker versus the world, not with Evans versus Parker.   Dwight Evans at his best was never the player that Parker was in the late 1970s—but over the course of his career, he was better.

 
 

COMMENTS (14 Comments, most recent shown first)

christianz
Interesting RF comparison. There are a lot of interesting right fielders from those days. Winfield, Reggie, Gwynn a little later.
3:45 PM May 27th
 
DHM
Parker vs Evans was good - And I understand you can't do the Rice comparison. Maybe someone else can do it because it sounds like fun. I will say this about Parker vs Evans: Dewey was beloved in Boston and portrayed as a hard-working everyman. Parker was portrayed (unfairly by the media) as a selfish waste of talent. But I do agree that Dewey was a much better teammate and better over the course of his career, due to work ethic, diet, etc. Yes, I'm biased towards Dewey as a die-hard Sox fan. Who can forget the emotional 5 min standing O he got in 91 when he returned to Fenway as an Oriole?
9:52 AM May 27th
 
hotstatrat
I see '68/'69 as a greater dividing line than '60/'61. Both breaks involved expansion, but in the latter, the mound height changed, the strike zone shrunk, and Bowie Kuhn came in. The Major Leagues became international in '69 thanks to Les Expos. A couple years later the DH came in, then a few years after that we had DHs. Perhaps, the most significant change in 1969 was the split into two divisions and the creation of pre World Series play-offs. The next split then would be when the leagues split into three divisions and were started allowing wild card teams into and yet another layer into the play-offs. That began in 1994 a year in which teams returned back from the strike with a new collective bargaining agreement - a significant change in itself. Baseball seemed really different then. We don't have a clear starting point for the "steroids" era and we don't even have a clear idea about what affect each PED has had. We do know hitting took a huge jump in 1994, which may have had more to do with new springier baseballs. So, I would say:
19th Century
Dead-Ball
Between Wars
Post War/Integration: 1946-1968
Four Divisions/intro. DH & FA: 1969-1993
Six Divisions/post strike: 1994-
6:06 AM May 27th
 
Trailbzr
Sorry, forgot to add "Improved ball resilience" per chuck's research
7:41 AM May 26th
 
Trailbzr
It's pretty clear a new era began sometime in the mid-90s, it's just a question of what to name it for:
Pharmacology
The Commissioner is a team owner
Add four teams not named for cities
Six divisions and expanded playoffs
Interleague Play
(Almost the) end of dual-sport stadiums and artificial turf
No more player strikes

How about the "There's too much money to be made for us to argue over dividing it" era.

7:36 AM May 26th
 
CharlesSaeger
Keeping on the comparison that Bill actually did ... I put their WS-LS records for each year in a spreadsheet, combined the two teams for Parker's 1991, and first combined the records into the Fibonacci number that Bill invented years ago. The best year, by this, is Parker's 1978 (22.5), followed closely by Parker's 1977 (22.1), then Parker's 1979 (19.5), Parker's 1975 (18.0), then Evans's 1982 (17.5). Parker has six years over 10.0 (the others being 1976 and 1985), Evans has nine. Basically, about what we already knew -- Parker was better at his best, but Evans had more good years. Evans comes to 192, Parker to 179.

Another way to weigh good years more would be doing a sum of squares, as 10^2+20^2=500, but 15^2+15^2=450. Now Parker comes out ahead, 2520 to 2247. I don't know if Parker's top-tier years should outweigh Evans's long-term value, but more fuel for the fire.

Oh, DWP for corner outfielders -- if outfielders still get 29% of the fielding Win Shares and corner outfielders get a quarter of that each (center fielders get 40% of the putouts, 30% each going to the corners), we get them getting 7.25%. Dividing that by one eighth (for the other eight guys) and then dividing by two for a winning percentage, we get a typical DWP of .290, making both above average. Of course, changes to the system would alter that.
10:30 PM May 25th
 
CharlesSaeger
Well, I asked twice about Rice/Parker because I couldn't remember if I sent it the first time (whoops), but I get the message on the Ox-say. Guess I have to wait for the next Win Shares book.
9:46 PM May 25th
 
elricsi
The Era question drives me nuts too, and I spent many hours thinking about it. I would now go with:

Pre-AL: 1876-1900
Old Timey: 1901-1925
White Dudes hit for power: 1926-1949
Integrated pre-divisional: 1950-1968
New divisions, same parks: 1969-1991
Let's build a bandbox: 1992-today
9:40 PM May 25th
 
chuck
19th Century: 1876-1900.
Dead-ball Era (1901-1919): '01 for the American League start.
Clean Ball Era (1920-1946): the onset of the clean white ball, crackdown on gambling.
Era of Integration (1947-1968).

Divisional Era (1969-1993): teams start playing uneven schedules for the first time. Divisional playoffs start. The leagues divide in other ways- astroturf, the dh. Free agency acts as a divider- separating teams and fans from their stars. And the country itself was divided in '69.

Offensive Era (1994- ): offensive in the sudden jump in hitting but also in the offensive use of p.e.d.'s in pursuit of riches, and in the sacrificing of the World Series to the inability of players and owners to divide the spoils.
3:15 PM May 25th
 
evanecurb
I am glad Bill brought up Parker's speed as a young man. He was FAST. I saw all of his home games in 1972 in Salem (Carolina High A ball). He was listed as 6-6, 230 and played center field. He was very fast on short distances (first to second, running down fly balls) but unbelievable on longer distances (first to third, second to home) as he seemed to gain speed throughout the journey.
11:26 AM May 25th
 
evanecurb
Parker blew his chance for the Hall of Fame with his work habits. As Bill says, he got fat and used drugs. It looks to me like he took four seasons off while simultaneously collecting one of the largest paychecks in the game.

Evans was a rock solid performer and I see him as a class B- or C+ Hall of Famer (Bill's previous work divided HOFers into classes A, B, and C).
11:09 AM May 25th
 
jollydodger
1978-1993.....Name-your-own era....Yankees suck era?....Stirrups 'n 'staches era?
1994-current...New Ballparks era....Thin-handle bat era....new expansion era?
4:23 AM May 25th
 
wovenstrap
Calling a Mets game just the other day, Keith Hernandez said that Dave Parker in the late 70s was the best player he ever saw.
2:23 AM May 25th
 
jollydodger
19th Century (1876-1902)
Dead-Ball (1903-1919) (World Series)
Between the Wars (1920-1942)
War & Post-War (1943-1960)
Expansion (1961-1977)
Astroturf (1978-1993)
Steroid Era (1994-2009?) (or current)
2:14 AM May 25th
 
 
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