Remember me

Notes on the 1974 World Series

October 30, 2009

            As I write this MLB-TV is broadcasting Game One of the 1974 World Series, which I am much enjoying watching.  

1)  The pace of the game is unmistakably better.   The pitchers just get the ball, take the sign and fire.   Nobody steps out to break the pitcher’s rhythm. . . .not clear whether the umpires would allow it or not.   I don’t believe the catcher goes to the mound to talk to the pitcher once, on either team.   I could have missed it or it could have been edited out of the tape, I guess. 

            2)  The umpiring is bad, and the announcers don’t say anything about it.   I would speculate that instant replay, along with training programs implemented by MLB in the late 1990s, have sharpened the umpiring more than we realize.   

            3)  Second inning, Joe Rudi on first, Ray Fosse hits a ground ball to third.   The play goes 5-4—but it is way late.   Rudi slides into second far ahead of the throw, is called out. …nobody says anything about it.  Rudi just runs off the field.

            4)  But that’s nothing compared to a double play in the bottom of the inning.  Runners on first and second, Cey grounds to shortstop for a 6-4-3 Double Play.

            But neither runner is anywhere NEAR being out.   On the play at second Dick Green is 3 to 4 feet off of second base, and hasn’t BEEN on second base anytime recently.   I would have thought the “in the neighborhood” call at second was getting worse, rather than better, but. . .I haven’t seen anything like that in years.   There is NO question that if you did that now, the umpire would not give you the call.

            And then Cey beats the throw to first, and they call him out as well.

            5)  You may remember in an article I did earlier about the great Dodger infield of the 1970s, I noticed that Bill Russell had defensive won-lost records that read, beginning in 1972, 5-1, 8-1, 4-4, 3-1, 7-2, 8-0, 8-1.   The 4-4 record, which is out of place, is 1974, so I speculated that Russell must have had an injury that season.   Sure enough, Vince Scully (broadcasting the series for NBC) talks repeatedly about Russell having an elbow injury that has interfered with his performance in the field. 

            6)  Pre-game interview with Steve Garvey. . the “con man” aspect of Garvey’s personality seems really evident, and I wonder how I could have missed this at the time.    Perhaps we should call it the “salesman” element of Garvey’s personality, just to be polite.   Garvey, for those of you not old enough to remember, projected a strong, conservative, values-driven personality, and talked from early in his career about running for political office after his playing career.    This was undermined when it was revealed that he was involved in sexual adventures with a fair percentage of the population of southern California.  

            But just watching the pre-game interview. . .or am I reading what I know now into it?. . ..there is something in Garvey’s voice that tips you off immediately to the problem.   The cadence, the timbre of his voice is so obviously calculated to ooze sincerity that it comes off as perversely phony.   He smiles on cue and refers to Tony Kubek as “Tony” in almost every sentence.

            My memory of this at the time is that some people I knew picked up on this element of Garvey and distrusted him from the start—but I didn’t; I liked Garvey, and defended him as a person until the early 1980s.   But just watching that interview, I wonder how I could possibly have missed it?    Watch it if you get a chance, let me know what you think.

            7)  Joe Ferguson in 1974 hit .256 with 16 homers and 75 walks with just 349 at bats—an excellent power rate, a phenomenal walk rate—about which Vin Scully observes early in the game “the experts say he takes too many pitches.”   And re-iterates this throughout the game.

            Scully is congenitally nice but a genius at making his points, and, boiling off the good manners, he has nothing good to say about Ferguson.   “He is a gentle big man.   They say he is too nice, too passive.”   Quote is from memory. . .can’t re-wind this to check the words.    Anyway, Ferguson’s career unravels from that point, posing the question:  Is Scully observing real failings in Ferguson?   Or is it that the criticism of Ferguson forces him away from what he does best, and undermines his career? 

            Ferguson makes an absolutely magnificent throw from the outfield in the 8th inning.  Jimmie Wynn is set up to make the catch in right center; Ferguson cuts him off and guns a strike to home plate to nail the runner.  There aren’t three players in the majors today who could make that throw.   

            8)  Rollie Fingers, A’s closer, enters the game in the fifth inning, with the starting pitcher exiting having given up only one un-earned run.

            9)  Camera angles for the game often show the pitch from behind home plate, behind the umpire.   They’ll use the center field camera for a few pitches, then switch to behind the plate.  You can’t see where the pitch is.   You lose the pitch as it leaves the pitcher’s hand, pick it up on contact, and then only if the pitch is outside.  I think the center field camera angle, which we now take for granted, didn’t become dominant until the late 1970s. 

            10)  Casey Stengel is at the game, and Cary Grant.   I wouldn’t have guessed either of them was still alive at that time, but they both look good.

            11)  Tony Kubek repeatedly kisses up to Vin Scully by praising his scouting insights into the Dodger players, but the scouting reports are really not good.   The Dodger starter, Andy Messersmith, was second in the National League in strikeouts with 221, but Scully says “Forget that.  He hasn’t been a strikeout pitcher for some time”, and talks about Messersmith having trouble throwing his curve, and cites several late-season games in which Messersmith has had low strikeout totals.

            But Messersmith struck out 36 batters in 49 innings in September, 1974—not really much different than his full-season strikeout rate.   I think he’s one strikeout off his season rate for September.   He strikes out 8 batters in the game. 

            It’s a three-man team—Curt Gowdy, Tony Kubek and Scully.   Curt Gowdy interjects a quote from a conversation with Messersmith, in which Messersmith mentions “perfecting” his changeup.    But Scully barely seems to realize that Messersmith throws a change, and talks constantly about his curve ball, about his curve ball not being as sharp as it was earlier in the season, etc.—totally missing the fact that Messersmith has switched from the curve ball to the changeup as his strikeout pitch.

            12)  Scully says early in the game that Ron Cey has the most accurate arm he’s ever seen at third base.   Ron Cey then makes a throwing error later in the game. 

            13)  Scully says that, in all his years broadcasting, he has never seen any player make as many dramatic and spectacular plays at any position as Bill Buckner has made that year in left field.   Quite a comment. . .and we don’t usually think of Buckner that way.   Not suggesting he is wrong.

            14)  The A’s are wearing green hats, but Alvin Dark is wearing a white hat, while the Dodgers (of course) are wearing blue hats, but Walter Alston is wearing a red hat.   Huh?. 

            15)   The A’s stole 164 bases in 1974, the Dodgers 154, but Scully observes that apart from Bill North and Bert Campaneris, the Dodgers appear “to have much more speed up and down the lineup.”   It’s a real head-scratching comment.    Yes, the A’s have Ray Fosse, Gene Tenace, Sal Bando, Dick Green and Joe Rudi in the lineup, but then, the Dodgers have Steve Yeager, Steve Garvey, Ron Cey, Bill Russell and Joe Ferguson.   

            16)  Scully refers to Rollie Fingers as “Roland” Fingers, throughout the game.   I don’t believe he ever says “Rollie”. 

            17)  Mike Marshall throws a lot of screwballs, and Scully quotes a comment from early in the season, when the famously impolitic Marshall was asked to compare his screwball to Jim Brewer’s and Tug McGraw’s.   “Their fastballs,” Marshall replies, “are in the infantile stage.” 

            Marshall’s screwball is not what we think of as a screwball in the Mike Cuellar/Tug McGraw/Scottie McGregor/Fernando Valenzuela tradition.   Kubek says that it is “not like anybody else’s screwball”, and it really isn’t; it’s much closer to what we would think of as a knuckle curve.    He throws it different speeds, so that sometimes it almost looks like a slider, other times like a knuckleball.   It often starts out high, above the strike zone, and almost always breaks AWAY from a right-handed hitter, like a normal breaking pitch.   The slow one comes in high and darts down and away from a right-handed hitter at a very late moment.   One can see that it’s a tough pitch, but it’s hard to see how it’s a screwball.

 
 

COMMENTS (23 Comments, most recent shown first)

wovenstrap
This game has recently been made available on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkdv1lBIXCE
6:18 PM Aug 5th
 
donmalcolm
Clearly no one was discussing OBP in the mainstream media in 1974, so Scully is really no different from his peers. To his credit, he's shifted since then, as have a good number of announcers (and a few others!). As for his comments on Ferguson: those stemmed from the Dodger organization itself, who'd spotted the tendency during Joe's years in the minors and had been after him to get more aggressive because he was such a big guy that they wanted him to hit more HRs (which he did NOT do in the minors).

Ferguson did NOT "go away from what he did best" in 1975. He continued to be extremely selective, and simply might have gotten too passive at the plate. That does happen sometimes. He had a very slow start that year, and was starting to come out of it in June when he got hurt.

You may be romanticizing Joe's potential. He was 27 years old in '74, and he'd had his biggest season the year previously--with the first half being especially explosive. Whatever he'd exploited in April of '73 had been figured out by the second half of the year, however, so the chances of him being a truly great hitter were slight at best.

The other odd fact about that electrifying throw--definitely one of the most memorable plays in any WS--is that it was the first OF assist in Joe's career. (He'd played only about 50 games in the OF to that point.)
12:05 PM Nov 21st
 
jdw
Bill,

Great piece.

Ferguson stepping infront of Wynn and making the wicked throw home is one of the vivid memories of my LA County childhood, and one that for years we copied around the neighborhood along with Fisk's waving the arms on the dinger the following year.

Ferguson is one of those guys that really deserves the "Can I Have A Do Over" award for his career. Just six years of 400+ PA's. His OPS+ in those years:

1973: 135
1974: 132
1976: 91
1977: 127
1978: 113
1979: 131

He played in Dodger Stadium, Bush and the Astro Dome from 1970-1981. The Dodgers obsessed on catching defense while rolling out outfielders in the infield. Yeager *was* a terrific defensive catcher, and it was an era of considerably more running. But Joe could flat out hit.

Similar to Cliff Johnson from the era. Not going to say Joe was as good of a hitter, but similar HR+BB with a low average hitter. Cliff had more power, Joe had the better eye.

The guy he cut infront of on the play is a forgotten great. I think if one applies the same criteria in the NewHistAb that were in the Darrel Evans comment to Wynn, even more would apply to Wynn than Evans.

John
3:14 AM Nov 18th
 
christianz
Scully sounds awful from this analysis.

Great stuff. The image of Rudi simply running off the field after a horrible call reminds me of the days when athletes didn't posture after every last thing. Like the Phi Slamma Jamma Houston team. Those guys would throw down tremendous dunks, I mean sometimes right on opponents' heads, and then they'd simply sprint back upcourt, no reaction whatsoever. It's great fun to watch, looking back.
8:04 AM Nov 5th
 
christianz
Scully sounds awful from this analysis.

Great stuff. The image of Rudi simply running off the field after a horrible call reminds me of the days when athletes didn't posture after every last thing. Like the Phi Slamma Jamma Houston team. Those guys would throw down tremendous dunks, I mean sometimes right on opponents' heads, and then they'd simply sprint back upcourt, no reaction whatsoever. It's great fun to watch, looking back.
7:01 AM Nov 5th
 
clarkshu
I have vauge memories of the Mets introducing the CF camera angle into their broadcasts late in the 1970 season, but I wouldn't swear to it. I want to say it was during the Labor Day doubleheader.
1:55 AM Nov 5th
 
rollo131
Vin Scully's takes on Bill Buckner and Joe Ferguson the way you describe them remind me of Norm MacDonald's impression of Larry King, making his inane observations for USA Today:

"I don't care what anyone says, in my book Ted Kaczynski is not the Unabomber."
"Of all the figures of the twentieth century, one of the greatest has to be Robert Urich."

Etc. But I still think Vin Scully is great.

I was watching Game 5 of the 1969 World Series the other day, and I also noticed the infrequent use of the center field camera angle. It's obviously the best way to watch the pitcher-batter confrontation, and it hardly got used at all. But I find the view from behind the catcher a lot less annoying than the view from over and behind home plate. You can't see anything about the pitch from that angle, whether it was a fastball or a curveball, whether the pitch was a strike or a ball, if it was high or low, yet the majority of pitches were shown from that angle. The shot is so far away from the players you can't tell anything about their body language or facial expression. The overall effect is rather irritating.

A lot of things about television coverage of the games today is irritating, too, but one area they've got it all over the tv coverage of the past is better use of camera angles.
8:28 PM Nov 2nd
 
jkuntz
Attended that game, sat in the fourth deck. On Ferguson's amazing throw (the one play for which I had a perfect seat, since the whole trajectory of the throw was spread before me) -- Wynn's only weakness that year was his bad arm, and Ferguson was clearly instructed to take every ball he could possibly reach when a throw was needed. It surprised us all when he cut in front of Wynn. Most amazing throw I've ever seen.
On Buckner -- hard to believe now, but before his injuries, Buckner was an impressive and flashy left fielder. In 73-74, he would make amazing diving, full extension catches of balls hit between him and the foul line; I've never seen anyone else even attempt this kind of play, taking away sure doubles/triples.
My general admission ticket, $1.50 during the regular season, was probably less than $5 for this game.
7:14 PM Oct 31st
 
jkuntz
Attended that game, sat in the fourth deck. On Ferguson's amazing throw (the one play for which I had a perfect seat, since the whole trajectory of the throw was spread before me) -- Wynn's only weakness that year was his bad arm, and Ferguson was clearly instructed to take every ball he could possibly reach when a throw was needed. It surprised us all when he cut in front of Wynn. Most amazing throw I've ever seen.
On Buckner -- hard to believe now, but before his injuries, Buckner was an impressive and flashy left fielder. In 73-74, he would make amazing diving, full extension catches of balls hit between him and the foul line; I've never seen anyone else even attempt this kind of play, taking away sure doubles/triples.
My general admission ticket, $1.50 during the regular season, was probably less than $5 for this game.
3:28 PM Oct 31st
 
jkuntz
Attended that game, sat in the fourth deck. On Ferguson's amazing throw (the one play for which I had a perfect seat, since the whole trajectory of the throw was spread before me) -- Wynn's only weakness that year was his bad arm, and Ferguson was clearly instructed to take every ball he could possibly reach when a throw was needed. It surprised us all when he cut in front of Wynn. Most amazing throw I've ever seen.
On Buckner -- hard to believe now, but before his injuries, Buckner was an impressive and flashy left fielder. In 73-74, he would make amazing diving, full extension catches of balls hit between him and the foul line; I've never seen anyone else even attempt this kind of play, taking away sure doubles/triples.
My general admission ticket, $1.50 during the regular season, was probably less than $5 for this game.
1:52 PM Oct 31st
 
JohnPontoon
I really quite enjoyed this, Bill. Your particular insight plus your writing acumen makes for a real winner in this format. I'd love to see an "old game of the month" article here.
10:14 AM Oct 31st
 
ajmilner
At a collectibles show a few weeks ago I bought a bootleg DVD of NBC's coverage of Game 3 of the 1969 World Series -- complete and in full-color. I don't want to lapse into a baseball-was-better-years-ago reverie, but I can't help but notice that Gentry and Palmer took 10-15 seconds -- not 30 to 40 seconds -- between pitches. Fifteen extra seconds per pitch multiplied by 300 pitches a game...
8:31 AM Oct 31st
 
Steven Goldleaf
Beginning with an aside, the Scully-Garagiola team used to drive me nuts, especially when they would repeat their catchphrases ("He's in No-Man's Land" to describe anyone who, in their opinion, wasn't where he should have been stands out.) As Bill points out, their blather was based on ideas that got stuck in their heads and they would assert these dubious opinions over and over again. In a way, Bill's entire career is a corrective to this sort of unsupported argumentation, so God bless Vin and Joe.

There's probably not a market for a whole book like this, but this is some of the most fascinating writing (to my eyes) that could be written--a close analysis of a style of commentary that probably formed our vision of baseball for decades. The stuff about Ferguson's OBP is positively scandalous, and it's right there on the tape--Scully (like most announcers in my youth) freely castigates Ferguson (and probably Mantle and Ted Williams, if we went back that far) for doing the single most valuable thing an offensive player can do: get on base.

If Bill now finds it distasteful to critique players, managers, announcers, etc as hilariously as he used to do in his intemperate youth, then it would be great if he would dredge up these long-since unseen tapes of past games and turn his wit on those with extreme prejudice. There's genuine insight in revisiting these commentaries that were so formative for all of us, albeit in a largely negative way.

Apart from the stuff on Vin, the contrast with the pace of the game is great. After we find out whether these old tapes have been edited for time (I don't think they have been) someone should stand there with a stopwatch and quantify exactly what the difference is between time elapsed between pitches then and now. As with the neighborhood play, the latitude given to batters stepping out of the box is often defended as a safety issue, which I totally don't get: enforcing the "time-out" rule strictly leads to rewarding batters who can strategize quickly and penalizes those who need to consult with a coach and then mentally review at length their current ball-strike count, etc. That is a real baseball skill, and one I'd like to see rewarded more. Talk to coaches before the game or before the at-bat in the dugout, but after you get into the box, you're on your own. Likewise with the neighborhood play--getting down to second base quickly and aggressively is a real skill, and those who do it should be rewarded by the middle infielder sometimes being unable to get off a good throw while standing on the bag.

7:20 AM Oct 31st
 
BigDaddyG
Amen about the pace of the games- watching the Yankees-Angels series this year, it made me feel like a typical at bat lasted longer than entire innings back in the day. I can't see how the current languid pace of at bats helps the sport.
10:58 PM Oct 30th
 
ajmilner
Who threw out the ceremonial first pitch? I've seen footage of Game 7 of the 1973 A's-Mets World Series where Clint Eastwood threw it from a box seat. Any idea when it became de rigeur to actually walk out to the pitcher's mound to deliver it?

Scully returned to NBC in 1982 or 1983 and was paired with Joe Garagiola; Kubek was demoted to the secondary market games with a young Bob Costas.

And Cary Grant was actually a prominent Hollywood baseball fan. He lived until 1986, BTW.
9:48 PM Oct 30th
 
those
evanecurb, Scully wasn't with NBC at the time. That was during the period when NBC would have the team's announcers do part of the game. Scully went to CBS in the mid-1970s. He did NFL games as early as '76, maybe earlier, and part of the reason he left CBS was because he lost out to Summerall for the No. 1 NFL announcer gig to work with Madden.
4:03 PM Oct 30th
 
Kev
Bill,

Simply terrific, a keeper--one of your better ever; you don't just make good observations--the whole thing is a good observation. It's a bit humbling when you see things happen that are different from your memory of them. I could have bet that Ray Robinson KO'd Gene Fullmer with that perfect left hook after two looping rights to the kidney/rib area brought Fullmer's guard down. Didn't happen. No set-up at all--normal movement when Robinson, with great quickness, landed. I also remembered Gene lying prone for the entire count, but in reality he showed deliberate movement late in the count. Wow! That's almost a different fight!
Actually, Dodger telecasts should be titled Scully's World. He's alone, he runs things, and after what, almost 60 yrs. at the mike(?) is as invulnerable as J. Edgar once was. I read that it's in his contract that at least once per telecast a crowd shot must show a little kid enjoying the game. And (not in the contract, but just as solid) no cleavage permitted. Scully retained Red Barber's low key approach, but none of Barber's sometimes cynical realism. That's why it's Scully's World.
This was fun but we both have promises to keep and miles to go before
we (sic) sleep.
Just a slendid piece.

1:18 PM Oct 30th
 
clarkshu
evancurb, when you see the '75 WS, are you sure it's not Dick Stockton instead of Joe Garagiola. In that era the home team announcer would broadcast the game with Curt and Tony.
1:16 PM Oct 30th
 
wovenstrap
Oh, and aside from that, this was totally fascinating.
12:55 PM Oct 30th
 
evanecurb
My observations on games I have seen from that era:

Bill:

These are neat observations. I remember the neighborhood play back then on the DP; I used to jump up and shout at the TV at the time. Everyone did it because it was never called. I also hated Steve Garvey at the time, but more because he was overrated and overpraised than because of anything else. Turns out he would have been perfect in Congress - a phoney flag waver who speaks in platitudes and has serial affairs.

I have heard that Vin Scully never enjoyed working with a partner as he prefers to go solo as he does in the Dodger broadcasts. I think that may explain Kubek's behavior.

In the '75 WS game 6 replay on MLB TV, Garagiola and Kubek are the announcers. Gowdy must have retired around that time; not sure what happened with Scully. Did he go over to CBS for a while?

Other observations about the era:

Bats were bigger - both longer and handles were thicker.
Lots of polyester - announcers, players, fans were wearing it. Most ML uniforms had those ugly horizontal wastebands instead of belts.
The mediocre hitters of those days - the guys who hit in the 6 through 9 spots on most teams - were not as good as their counterparts of today. They weren't as quick with their bats, had less power, and swung at more bad pitches. You ever notice how some poor hitting pitchers, such as Pedro Martinez, Tim Lincecum, etc., sort of stand at the plate with the bat in their hand like that is the last place they want to be? They almost look like they are posing for a Topps photograph. Well, in watching some of the old films from the sixties and seventies, that looks like the way a lot of the 7-8 hitters are standing up there - Don Wert, Mark Belanger, Andy Etchebarren, Denny Doyle... Those guys seemed to have very poor technique. You don't see that today, at least not to the same degree.
12:43 PM Oct 30th
 
wovenstrap
Oh, and aside from that, this was totally fascinating.
12:30 PM Oct 30th
 
wovenstrap
I have to say, the neighborhood play hasn't been in existence since the 1994 strike, and maybe earlier. If you don't touch the bag with your foot, they're not gonna call the guy out. OK, maybe if you are straddling the bag and your feet could be taken as touching the bag from some angle, even if it isn't... OK, they might call that. But -- in practice you kind of have to come pretty damn close to touching the bag. It would never occur to me that the neighborhood play is getting more blatant.

Another thing -- the automatic strike 1 on a 3-0 pitch. I may be wrong, but I feel like they used to give the pitcher this a lot more. Nowadays, you better try to throw a strike, or they'll put the man on base. They'll call a clear-ball-that-is-kinda-borderline a strike, but nothing more than that.
12:29 PM Oct 30th
 
pob14
The A's manager (and coaches, IIRC) consistently wore white caps in the Finley years. I don't remember the Dodger managers doing it, though.
12:12 PM Oct 30th
 
 
©2024 Be Jolly, Inc. All Rights Reserved.|Powered by Sports Info Solutions|Terms & Conditions|Privacy Policy