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The 300 Group Total

October 30, 2009

            Pitchers winning 300 games is one of those issues, I am aware, about which I write too often.   However, while I generally pooh-pooh the idea that pitchers are going to stop winning 300 games, I do acknowledge that it is theoretically possible for this to happen.   .400 hitters have become extinct; 30-game winners have become extinct.   300-inning pitchers have disappeared.   It is possible for the same thing to happen to 300-game winners.

            One method that I have used since the 1970s to track this issue is to look at the league-leading wins total. . .what we could call the “normal league-leading” number.    The normal league-leading number, in any category, is the average of the last ten players to lead the league in that category.    In wins, at the moment, this is 19.9:

 

2005 American League

Bartolo Colon

21 Wins

2005 National League

Dontrelle Willis

22 Wins

 

 

 

2006 American League

2 Tied with

19 Wins

2006 National League

6 Tied with

16 Wins

 

 

 

2007 American League

Josh Beckett

20 Wins

2007 National League

Jake Peavy

19 Wins

 

 

 

2008 American League

Cliff Lee

22 Wins

2008 National League

Brandon Webb

22 Wins

 

 

 

2009 American League

3 Tied with

19 Wins

2009 National League

Adam Wainwright

19 Wins

 

            That adds up to 199 wins, an average of 19.9.    Let’s call it 20.   If a league-leading pitcher wins 20 games, then a 300 wins represents 15 years worth of league-leading performance. 

            If the league-leading numbers go up, then the number of years required go down.   If the league-leading numbers go down, the number of years required goes up.   We can track how difficult it is to win 300 games by tracking the league-leading totals.

            It recently occurred to me, though, that one can track this change in a different and perhaps better way by looking at the data for just one season.   In 1884, seven major league pitchers won a total of 329 games—59 by Old Hoss Radbourn, 52 by Guy Hecker, 48 by Charlie Buffinton, 46 by Pud Galvin, 43 by Billy Taylor, 41 by Charlie Sweeney, and 40 by either Jim McCormick or Bill Sweeney.   Eight pitchers won 40 or more games.

            If seven pitchers can win 300 games in a season, then, how long would it take a top-flight pitcher to win 300 games?   Seven years.   You just have to remain one of those top seven pitchers for seven years.

            Seven is the lowest “300 group total” in the history of baseball.    In 1876, 1877 and 1878 there were fewer than 300 major league games played, thus there is no number of pitchers required to win 300 games.    The first year in major league history in which 300 games were played was 1879, and in 1879 it required 13 pitchers to win a total of 300 games.    This number dropped to 7 in 1884, and was 8 or 9 for most of the 1880s:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1879

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

13

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1880

1881

1882

1883

1884

1885

1886

1887

1888

1889

11

14

11

8

7

8

8

9

10

9

 

            They were still figuring out the rules then.   Pitchers in 1880 were still required to throw underhand—and still did.  By 1883 they were still required to throw underhand, but no longer did.  By 1886 they were no longer required to.   Pitchers in this era threw 500, 600 innings in a season.    You could rack up a lot of wins in a few years.  

 

            In the 1890s pitchers began to develop sophisticated throwing motions, and to throw hard.   Increases in velocity required the mound to be moved back to 60 feet, 6 inches beginning in 1893:

 

1890

1891

1892

1893

1894

1895

1896

1897

1898

1899

9

9

10

12

11

12

12

14

12

13

 

            By the end of the decade win totals were low enough that one had to remain a top-flight pitcher for 12 to 14 years to win 300 games.     This remained the standard, generally speaking, into the early 1920s:

 

1900

1901

1902

1903

1904

1905

1906

1907

1908

1909

17

13

13

13

12

14

14

13

12

14

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1910

1911

1912

1913

1914

1915

1916

1917

1918

1919

14

13

12

13

12

13

14

14

16

15

 

            During all of that period, the Dead Ball Era, the top pitchers won 30+ games, and a pitcher could get to 300 with a run of 12 to 14 years, excepting 1918, which was a war-shortened season, and 1919, when they chopped the schedule to 140 games.   This snuck upward by two in the early 1920s, and then one or two more in the late 1930s:

 

1920

1921

1922

1923

1924

1925

1926

1927

1928

1929

13

14

14

14

16

16

16

15

14

16

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1930

1931

1932

1933

1934

1935

1936

1937

1938

1939

16

16

15

16

15

15

15

17

18

16

 

            By the late 1930s the “300 group total” was up to 18 pitchers.   It stayed about there through the 1940s, and ticked upward again in the 1950s:

 

1940

1941

1942

1943

1944

1945

1946

1947

1948

1949

17

17

17

18

16

16

17

16

17

16

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1950

1951

1952

1953

1954

1955

1956

1957

1958

1959

16

16

15

17

16

19

15

19

19

17

 

            I would like to pause for a second to reflect on the uncanny steadiness of this number.   In theory, this number could fluctuate wildly from year to year.   In 1955 no American League pitcher won more than 18 games.   In 1956 six American League pitchers won 20 or more, and Don Newcombe won 27 in the National League.   The number, which was 19 in 1955, ’57 and ’58, suddenly dropped to 15.

            It could fluctuate, but it normally doesn’t.   The era 1889-1891 is one of the wildest and most unstable eras in baseball history—but the numbers go 9, 9, 9.   The number from 1901 to 1903 go 13, 13, 13.  From 1921 to 1923 they go 14, 14, 14, followed by 16, 16, 16.    From 1940 to 1942 they go 17, 17, 17.   

            The numbers are very stable, but there is, from 1900 to 1959, a gradual increase in them.    In the Walter Johnson era a pitcher could win 300 games in 12 high-quality seasons.    By the Whitey Ford era it was up to 19 years.  If that number goes over 20—even to 21—if it is stable at 21, 300-game winners disappear.     In the 1960s and 1970s, however, the number went back in time by 50 years:

 

1960

1961

1962

1963

1964

1965

1966

1967

1968

1969

18

17

15

15

16

15

16

17

15

15

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1970

1971

1972

1973

1974

1975

1976

1977

1978

1979

15

15

15

15

15

16

16

16

15

17

 

            By the mid-1970s the number was stable at 15.    Several things contributed to this—the addition of 8 extra games to the schedule, expansion, the Designated Hitter rule, other things.    From 1962 to 1974, however, the number was usually 15.

            We could predict, based on that, that there would be an explosion of 300-game winners—and in fact there was.   Carlton, Sutton, Nolan Ryan, Phil Niekro, Gaylord Perry, Tom Seaver, all active in that period, all won 300 games.   By the late 1970s, however, the number was beginning to work its way back up:

 

1980

1981

1982

1983

1984

1985

1986

1987

1988

1989

16

25

17

17

17

16

17

18

16

17

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1990

1991

1992

1993

1994

1995

1996

1997

1998

1999

17

17

16

23

19

18

17

17

17

17

 

            Basically, over-simplifying, during all of the 1980s and 1990s it required 17 top-flight seasons for a pitcher to win 300 games.    Several pitchers still did.   

            Then we come to our own decade:

 

2000

2001

2002

2003

2004

2005

2006

2007

2008

2009

17

16

16

17

18

18

18

17

17

19

 

            We started the decade back at 16, then stabilized at 18 (18, 18, 18), and then this year it took 19 pitchers to add together to get a total of 300 wins. 

            19 is a high number.   19 is the highest number ever, except for the strike-shortened seasons and the years 1876-1878.    19 is close to 21, and at 21, 300 game winners are gone.  

            There are two kinds of predictions.  In the 1970s and early 1980s I could and did “predict” that there would be a flood of 300-game winners.   But this was not really a prediction.   It was an observation about the reality of the game today. and about how that would manifest itself in the future.

            To say that this number will go on up from 19 to 21, however, would be an actual prediction.   It went to 19 before, in the late 1950s, but then history turned a corner and went off in a different direction.   Is it possible we could turn a corner now?

            Sure it is.    Pitchers don’t have to come out of the game at the 100-pitch mark; it’s just a choice that managers make.   If the commissioner succeeds in speeding up the games, one result of that should be more complete games, which would drive this number down, thus making it easier to win 300 games.    All I will really say is that it is still possible to win 300 games now.    Ten years from now, if that number is 21, 22, 22, 22. . ..it’s over.

 
 

COMMENTS (23 Comments, most recent shown first)

CharlesSaeger
Tom: Gotcha.
4:56 PM Nov 13th
 
tangotiger
Charlie: the point of my 1991 Maddux example is that he looks just like Drysdale in terms of pitch counts, and yet the CG are drastically different. My sole point is that CG is not a proxy for what people are using it as. That is it.
11:46 AM Nov 10th
 
rtallia
Wins Years Wins Needed/Year
300 15 20.0
300 16 18.8
300 17 17.6
300 18 16.7
300 19 15.8
300 20 15.0
300 21 14.3
300 22 13.6
300 23 13.0
300 24 12.5
300 25 12.0

I include the above just to frame the discussion for a moment. Is it conceivable that a pitcher, going forward in time, can pitch for 22 years and average 13.6 victories a year? Taking into account pitch counts, # of guys in rotation, # of pitches per batter, etc?

It seems to me that the two most important factors overall for every post-war 300-game winner were(a) pitcher health and (b) pitcher longevity. Second chart:

Name Wins Years Starts Strt/Yr Wins/Year
Wynn 300 23 612 27 13
Johnson 303 22 603 27 14
Glavine 305 22 682 31 14
Seaver 311 20 647 32 16
Perry 314 22 690 31 14
Neikro 318 24 716 30 13
Sutton 324 23 756 33 14
Ryan 324 27 773 29 12
Carlton 329 24 709 30 14
Clemens 354 24 707 29 15
Maddux 355 23 740 32 15
Spahn 363 21 665 32 17

AVG 325 23 692 30 14


So: profile for 300-game winner going forward is most likely someone who pitches 23 years and averages 30 starts over those 23 years for a total of 692 starts. But are pitchers pitching today likely to get enough DECISIONS to get to 300 games even if they START 692 games? Third chart:

Name Wins Years Starts Sts/YearWins/Year
Oswalt 137 9 271 30 15
Sbathia 136 9 288 32 15
Buehrle 135 10 301 30 14
Hudson 148 11 310 28 13
Zito 133 10 320 32 13
Lackey 102 8 233 29 13
Hlladay 148 12 287 24 12
Santana 122 10 234 23 12
Vazquez 142 12 385 32 12
Beckett 106 9 225 25 12
Zmbrano 105 9 238 26 12

So there's 11 guys who are either ahead, even with, or in the ballpark of the average of 14 wins/year needed, over 23 years, to win 325 games. Here are the ages each current ballplayer would be at their 300th win, if they kept to their current average of wins/year:

Name Age Now Addl Age @ 300
Sbathia 28 11 39
Oswalt 31 11 42
Buehrle 30 12 42
Zito 31 11 42
Santana 30 13 43
Zmbrano 28 16 44
Vazquez 32 12 44
Beckett 29 15 44
Hudson 33 13 46
Lackey 30 16 46
Hlladay 32 17 49

No surprise: CC has the best shot out of the above group. But if some of these guys do what some of the other post-war pitchers did--i.e. stay healthy and pitch for over 20 years--then we should see at least ONE of them hit 300 wins.





2:57 PM Nov 6th
 
CharlesSaeger
TT: For pitch counts, ideally, it's the "Price Is Right" principle. You get as close to your pitch limit without going over.

I should point out that your Maddux example does have the issue of being from 1991. Pitch counts are lower now, which has driven down complete games even more. Any increase in pitch counts will necessarily increase complete games at this point.
5:41 PM Nov 5th
 
CharlesSaeger
TN: Niekro and Ryan pitched much of their careers in a four-man rotation -- Niekro especially.

As did Bert Blyleven.
As did Ferguson Jenkins.
As did Steve Carlton.
As did Gaylord Perry.
As did Warren Spahn.

While I don't think the five-man rotation is going away anytime in the forseeable future, I can't argue that it preserved anyone's career either.
5:28 PM Nov 5th
 
tangotiger
Here's the study (at post 28), which I'll recopy:
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/pap/#28

Drydale in 1963, with 17 CG in 42 starts, ERA+ of 114:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=drysddo01&year=1963&t=p

In those 17 CG, he averaged 114 pitches per start. In his other 25 starts, he averaged 92 pitches per start.

In his 17 starts with the most pitches thrown, he averaged 117 pitches per start. In his other 25 starts, he averaged 90 pitches per start.

Let’s take the 1991 Greg Maddux, with 7 CG in 37 starts in 1991, and ERA+ of 115:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=maddugr01&t=p&year=1991

In his 18 longest outings (min 8 IP), he averaged 112 pitches per start. In his other 19 starts, he averaged 88 pitches per start.

In his 15 starts with the most pitches thrown (40% of his starts, like Drysdale’s CG), he averaged 117 pitches per start. Just like Drysdale. In his remaining starts, he averaged 88 pitches per start (compared to 90 for Drysdale).

In all, 100 pitches per Maddux start in 1991, and 101 pitches per Drysdale start in 1963. The standard deviation of pitches per start was 18 for Maddux and 18 for Drysdale. Drysdale faced 30 batters for those 101 pitches, while Maddux faced 29 for 100 pitches.

In short, you have two pitchers throwing the exact same number of pitches per game, with the exact same distribution, facing virtually the same number of batters, and yet one pitcher completed 40% of his games, while the other completed 19%.

Don’t look at “complete games” as describing something that you think it should. It simply doesn’t.

Note: these were actually the first two pitchers and the first two seasons I selected. I did not try to canvass for anything other than having matching ERA+.


4:22 PM Nov 4th
 
tangotiger
I should also point out that going from 38-40 starts to 30-33 starts doesn't help either. And when I say "run environment", it's not strictly runs per game. More pitches are thrown for walks (5.5) and K (4.8) than other pitches (3.3). When you have the combination of batters being able to foul pitches off, take the first pitch alot more, increase the K counts and simply go deeper in counts generally speaking, and pitchers not able to pace themselves, the pitch counts become what they are.

As for the "complete games", what we care about is the average pitches per game. If you allow pitchers to go to 130-140 pitches and at the same time take them out early at 60-70 pitches, then the average will remain the same as the rest. It's just you get credit for alot of CG.

I did a quick study on this, and I compared one Drysdale season to one Maddux season. All their stats were indistinguishable from each other (K rates, BB rates, pitches per start, etc). But the CG rate was much higher for Dyrsdale.

CG is NOT a proxy for what you think it is.

4:18 PM Nov 4th
 
TJNawrocki
One thing not mentioned here is that the number of years one can spend as a topflight pitcher is not stable either. One reason that pitchers in the Koufax/Drysdale/Ford generation failed to win 300 is because those guys were done as effective pitchers by their mid-30s.

Under the five-man rotation, with pitchers like Glavine and Maddux and Johnson and Niekro and Sutton and Ryan all lasting well over 20 years in the majors, the number of wins per season doesn't need to be as high for them to win 300.
3:59 PM Nov 4th
 
ventboys
I will go on record as believing that 300 game winners will not become extinct unless the game goes to a 6 man rotation, or in some other way limits pitchers from being able to win 15-20 games in a good year. I wouldn't be surprised, actually, if we get another large crop of 300 game winners, and someone threatens 400 in the next generation.

My reasoning:

1- Surgeons. Prospects get hurt, and some of them still ruin their arms and don't amount to anything, but there are now surgeries, serious surgeries, that make injured arms even stronger.

2- Medicine. Scientific diets, better conditioning and general improvements in medicine are already allowing for an increase in longevity. 100 years ago lots of people died of natural causes in their 30's and 40's, but a few lived to be 80, 90 and over. With modern medicine, it's unusual to die before 70 unless you live an unhealthy lifestyle. Most people make it to 70, and the average is up near 80. Change "people" to "athletes", and 70 to 40. The best players make it to 40 and beyond now, and I see no reason to believe that, in the near future, some outliers will make it to 50 and a lot of them will be able to pitch effectively well into their 40's.

3- Money. With so much money at stake, players are coming into the game with several years of good training habits and taking it seriously from the very beginning. They work 12 months a year, and they hire personal trainers and a team of dieticians to ensure that they are getting the most out of their bodies. Because of the money, there is more incentive to keep going, keep working hard later in their careers. For every player that quits early because he is already rich, there are dozens that will keep it up as long as they can, partly for love of the game and partly because there ain't anything else that they can do and make that much money.

Bigger, stronger, healthier, more dedicated, better conditioned players are in the vast majority now. I hardly see a gut on anyone, and nobody sits around all winter and gets fat. They can't afford to.
12:03 AM Nov 4th
 
CharlesSaeger
My personal ideal, how I'd do it if I were playing Diamond Mind 24/7 and thus could monitor everything:

* Four-and-a-half man rotation, pitch limit of 130, lowered for the younger guys as needed.

There's no evidence whatsoever that throwing 100 pitches is dangerous. Even PAP3 shows a degradation in the next start at 130, which players rarely see anyways. The one thing modern pitching staffs do better with pitch limits is getting starters close to the limit, rather than yanking them early. You should be yanking pitchers:

* Late, when they're in a position to lose the game;
* Early, when they've clearly given up so many runs (say, seven) that you have to get them out of there and the game is lost anyhow so you might as well not push them;
* At the pitch limit, or right before;
* In a clear pinch-hitter situation.

Yanking your ace because he's given up 5 runs in 3 innings is a bad idea; he's probably just had a bad break or two.

* A relief ace, somewhat akin to the modern closer. He pitches in the ninth when ahead by one or two, tied or down by one, and in the eighth when tied or up by one. He is expected to finish the game when he enters.

* A setup man, who really bears no resemblance to this role. He enters with a three-run lead or two runs behind in the ninth, a two-run lead or one run behind in the eighth, a tied game or one run ahead in the seventh, or whenever the ace is not available for his usual duties. He is also expected to finish the game.

* A lefty who specializes in lefty batters. He's expected to finish the inning in which he enters, the rest depending on how well he's pitching and the score and how long before he's due up in the order.

* One or two pitchers who will pitch as needed. These guys aren't your top dogs anyways, so the defined regular role that the closer and setup men have isn't all that big a deal. Only having 4-5 men in the pen and another guy who floats between the pen and the rotation allows managers to better schedule workloads.

The real advantage modern bullpens have over those of our youths is the definition of roles. Sure, the cheap save has served to define the roles in such a way that the top reliever is often held out in key situations (tie games, one-run leads in the eighth), but the definition has helped both the pitchers and the managers.

I think Tom has his opinions on the matter somewhere on his site, IIRC, and loves the situational lefty more than I do.
2:06 PM Nov 3rd
 
jwilt
Could just make everyone use big, fat bats. That should bring back the Luke Appling type of hitter, .340 with 17 strikeouts a year. Runs scored and no strikeouts might lower pitch counts while keeping fan interest up.

Or, maybe with modern outfielders and small outfields fat bats might just lead to a bunch of Juan Pierres. Which would also keep pitch counts down...
12:34 PM Nov 3rd
 
evanecurb
Got off on a tangent about pitch counts. Other usage patterns that may be tinkered with:

6. the use of 3 3-inning relievers to fill one or two spots in the rotation and handle spot relief duty on their other days.
7. the use of the extra bullpen spots to facilitate the emergence of a Sabathia or Halladay type "horse" to ride. Under this model, the horse makes 35 or 40 starts but the other starters take 4, 5, or 6 days rest between starts. The swingman concept helps to facilitate this.
8. A four man rotation where every starter is limited to 80 pitches, or something like that.


The point is, the current pattern of five starters, each throwing 100 pitches, with designated ninth inning and eighth inning relievers on each team, is not the optimal solution for every staff. Other patterns will be tried and some will succeed if they fit the makeup of the staff.
11:17 AM Nov 3rd
 
evanecurb
This is an interesting discussion, especially Tom Tango's comment about pitch counts and offensive environment and C. Sager's responses. There seem to be interrelated factors at work here - the higher run scoring environment leads to more pitches being thrown because of (1) pitching carefully leads to more pitches per batter due to the HR threat and (2) more batters per inning due to more base runners reaching. This in turn leads to a need to have more pitchers on the roster. Because having 12 pitchers on the roster is still a relatively new concept, there will be further experimentation with how these pitchers are utilized. I expect new patterns to evolve, the patterns that succeed will be copied. I have no idea what new patterns will succeed, but here are a few ideas to consider:

1. It would be easy enough to bring back the swing man / long reliever role. This role was popular in the days of doubleheaders, but it doesn't have to become obsolete because of the absence of doubleheaders. As C. Sager suggests, a 4 1/2 man rotation makes sense and the swing man (men) make such a setup possible.

2. One of the teams (e.g. Tigers, Padres) that plays its home games in a big ballpark may (either by design or by luck) discover that they can prosper at home by encouraging all of their pitchers to throw strikes and thereby reduce their pitch counts. This would lead to higher innings pitched by the frontline pitchers and less reliance on the back end of the bullpen.

3. Someone will invest heavily in a "2005 White Sox" model staff. This is a staff with five durable starters, a strong closer, and a few fill ins that they take a chance on (Yes I know, in the case of the '05 Sox, the "fill ins" were awesome during the season. They may have gotten lucky, but middle relief is the least predictable roster spot anyway).

4. (similar to number 2) Someone may figure out that a team with control pitchers (preferably sinkerballers if they play in a small park) and strong defense up the middle will reduce pitch counts.

5. Some team will encourage its pitchers to stop "nibbling" at the corners on 0-2 or 1-2 counts and continuously pound the strike zone. This may or may not work but there is only one way to find out.


11:08 AM Nov 3rd
 
evanecurb
This is an interesting discussion, especially Tom Tango's comment about pitch counts and offensive environment and C. Sager's responses. There seem to be interrelated factors at work here - the higher run scoring environment leads to more pitches being thrown because of (1) pitching carefully leads to more pitches per batter due to the HR threat and (2) more batters per inning due to more base runners reaching. This in turn leads to a need to have more pitchers on the roster. Because having 12 pitchers on the roster is still a relatively new concept, there will be further experimentation with how these pitchers are utilized. I expect new patterns to evolve, the patterns that succeed will be copied. I have no idea what new patterns will succeed, but here are a few ideas to consider:

1. It would be easy enough to bring back the swing man / long reliever role. This role was popular in the days of doubleheaders, but it doesn't have to become obsolete because of the absence of doubleheaders. As C. Sager suggests, a 4 1/2 man rotation makes sense and the swing man (men) make such a setup possible.

2. One of the teams (e.g. Tigers, Padres) that plays its home games in a big ballpark may (either by design or by luck) discover that they can prosper at home by encouraging all of their pitchers to throw strikes and thereby reduce their pitch counts. This would lead to higher innings pitched by the frontline pitchers and less reliance on the back end of the bullpen.

3. Someone will invest heavily in a "2005 White Sox" model staff. This is a staff with five durable starters, a strong closer, and a few fill ins that they take a chance on (Yes I know, in the case of the '05 Sox, the "fill ins" were awesome during the season. They may have gotten lucky, but middle relief is the least predictable roster spot anyway).

4. (similar to number 2) Someone may figure out that a team with control pitchers (preferably sinkerballers if they play in a small park) and strong defense up the middle will reduce pitch counts.

5. Some team will encourage its pitchers to stop "nibbling" at the corners on 0-2 or 1-2 counts and continuously pound the strike zone. This may or may not work but there is only one way to find out.


11:08 AM Nov 3rd
 
CharlesSaeger
Kevin: you can't take single-season platoon splits as being too meaningful. The platoon differential is a much greater factor for pitchers than it is for hitters. While managers and general managers focus a bit too much on "getting a lefty to get out lefties" rather than "getting a good relief pitcher," there is a definite advantage, so I can't see the spot lefty from disappearing.

Same story with the five-man rotation. As lower level pitchers are all accustomed to having four days rest, the majors won't change until their managers do, and there isn't much incentive at the present to change that. Personally, I'd go with the four-and-a-half man rotation instead of the five, letting your front four get another 3-4 starts a year at the expense of a crappy pitcher (and any advantages of five days rest pale next to letting a fifth starter pitch when you don't have to), but the four-man rotation is dead for the near-future.
10:34 AM Nov 3rd
 
Kev
Sometimes I think managers know pitch counts but don't know who's pitching or who's at bat. And as you show in readily available form in your Handbook, quite a few LH hitters hit LHPs, but mix 'n' match madness rules. I remember a game where Grant Jackson started warming up slowly a full inning or more just to be ready for Brett. Only the back wall of the Stadium interrupted the ball's journey to who knows where.
As long as managers overmanage, 300 game-winners seem unlikely.
6:31 PM Nov 2nd
 
Trailbzr
Is there a problem with the 90s year table? 1993 has an out-of-place 23 but 1994 was the severely shortened year.

It also might be informative to list the number of 300 game winners active each year to see clearly the relationship of the two numbers.
5:59 PM Nov 2nd
 
CharlesSaeger
Tom: There is the little matter of pitchers pre-WWII who completed most of their starts in a high-run environment. I'm not saying you're wrong, but pitchers did throw far more then than they do now and batters scored runs galore.

I think the real issue is what the pitching staff of the near-future will be, more so than any arbitrarily-meaningful numbers resulting from it.
5:35 PM Nov 2nd
 
ventboys
Another factor in favor is sports medicine, which has worked miracles on pitching arms. I am not entirely sure that, in 20-30 years, there won't be a reasonable number of pitchers that are able to pitch 25 or more years.
12:49 PM Nov 2nd
 
tangotiger
In his career, Drysdale threw 103 pitches per start. Koufax was at 107. The other main Dodger starters of that time period were under 100. The average was right around 100. The problem is that it takes more pitches per batter, because batters take more. Where it used to be 3.5 pitches per batter, now it's 3.75. So, 100 pitches at 3.5 per batter and 95 pitches at 3.75 per batter means one guy is facing 28.6 batters and the other is facing 25.3.

Furthermore, if OBP (net of CS) is higher these days as well. That means it takes more batters to get through a game. It's alot easier to get a decision if you are facing 28.6 out of, I dunno, 38 batters a game than it is to face 25.3 batters out of 39 batters a game.

All that has to happen is to lower the scoring environment, which will increase the number of gazelles, which will decrease the number of guys who rely on walks+K+HR, which will decrease the pitches per batter, etc, etc.

It's a run environment issue.

12:33 PM Nov 2nd
 
3for3
Lowering the scoring should help too. Less pitches thrown and slower hooks.
11:54 AM Nov 2nd
 
mikeclaw
I hope we do see this trend reverse. Let starters go further into their starts, do away with these overstaffed bullpens and the one-out specialists ... I hope this happens for a lot of reasons.

11:43 AM Nov 2nd
 
greggborgeson
Great article. I think a bigger factor than the 100 pitch limit is the five man rotation. In the last 40 years managers installed BOTH five man rotations AND pitch limits. This may be ovekill... Managers may trend toward maintaining the pitch limits, but reducing the rotation to four, which would dramatically lower the number...
7:48 AM Nov 2nd
 
 
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