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BJOL 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

December 12, 2009
 
Welcome to the second annual Bill James Online Hall of Fame vote.
 
Below I’ve listed the candidates on this year’s baseball Hall of Fame ballot, along with a few thoughts about the players. Read them over and then, in the comments section of the article, cast a ballot for the players you’d like to vote for.
 
You can vote for up to ten players on your ballot. Please cast only one ballot. Sometime in mid-January, I’ll tally the votes and announce who the BJOL readers would elect to the Hall of Fame.
 
Let the voting begin.
 
Looking Back: 2009
 
Before we get to this year’s ballot, a quick look back at last year’s voting. During the inaugural BJOL Hall of Fame vote, readers cast ballots for the players listed on the real Hall-of-Fame ballot. The results from last year’s vote are tallied below:
 
Name
%
# of votes
Rickey Henderson
100%
63
Tim Raines
89%
56
Bert Blyleven
86%
54
Alan Trammell
76%
48
Mark McGwire
64%
40
Andre Dawson
21%
13
Tommy John
18%
11
Dale Murphy
17%
11
Lee Smith
14%
9
Don Mattingly
10%
6
Jack Morris
10%
6
Jim Rice
6%
4
Harold Baines
5%
3
Dave Parker
5%
3
Jesse Orosco
3%
2
David Cone
2%
1
Mo Vaughn
2%
1
Jay Bell
0%
0
Ron Gant
0%
0
Mark Grace
0%
0
Dan Plesac
0%
0
Greg Vaughn
0%
0
Matt Williams
0%
0
 
Rickey Henderson was a unanimous selection by the BJOL readers, and Tim Raines, Bert Blyleven, and Alan Trammell all reached the 75% needed for admission.
 
We have a new ballot this year. After some thought, I decided to cut out Raines, Blyleven, and Trammell from the new list: whatever the real Hall of Fame says, we here at the BJOL have reached a concensus on them. As far as this site is concerned, they’re Hall-of-Famers.
 
2010 Hall of Fame Ballot
 
Roberto Alomar – 2724 Hits, 504 2B, 210 HR, 474 SB, .300 BA, 12 Gold Gloves
 
Roberto Alomar, during the 1992 ALCS, was about as exciting a player as any I’ve seen in baseball. He was, well, electric: he hit .423 during the series, with five stolen bases and two homeruns, including a shot off Oakland closer Dennis Eckersley to tie Game 4 in the 9th inning. He seemed everywhere during those games, and he played with a startling grace: playing baseball seemed easy to him. Rickey Henderson played in that series, and Alomar seemeedwas a new version of Henderson. It was obvious that Alomar was the future of the game; that he was on his way to becoming the next great second baseman. Anyway, I always rooted for him after that series.
 
Alomar arrived in Toronto with Joe Carter in 1991, as part of a trade that sent Fred McGriff and Tony Fernandez to the Padres. It was a blockbuster in every sense: the four players involved were all All-Star caliber players, all big names in baseball. They were young players: Joe Carter was the oldest of the bunch: he’d turn thirty-one in 1991. Fernandez was 29, McGriff was 27, and Alomar was 23.
 
Alomar finished sixth in the AL MVP vote during each of his first three seasons with the Jays, who made the postseason all three years, winning back-to-back World Series Championships. That’s a neat trick, finishing sixth each year: When I saw that I thought: “Well, his numbers must have improved each year, because otherwise the voters wouldn’t keep putting him so high.” And it’s true: Alomar’s numbers increased in almost every category from 1991-1993. And, of course, the Jays kept winning.
 
Like Joe Morgan, the teams that had Alomar tended to win: the Padres were 65-97 before Alomar joined them, and then they won 83 and 89 wins with their young second sacker. When Robbie left for the Jays, the Padres slipped back under .500, going 75-87 without him.
 
The Jays went from 86 wins without Robbie to 91 wins with him, and then Toronto won two straight World Championships. When Alomar went to the Orioles, he helped what was a sub-.500 team win 88 games in 1996 and 98 in 1997. The Cleveland Indians won 89 games without Alomar 1998: when they acquired him in 1999 they won 97 games.
 
In 1996, when he was with Baltimore, Alomar spit in the face of umpire John Hirschbeck, and then made a few crass remarks about Hirschbeck’s family life. There is certainly no excuse for boorish behavior, and it is worth noting that some accounts suggest that Hirschbeck deserves equal blame for escalating the situation with a few choice words of his own. It is worth noting, however, that Alomar was quick to offer amends to Hirschbeck, and that the two came to regard one another as friends.
 
Alomar is one of the ten greatest second basemen of all-time. He was a five-tool player, a player who excelled in every single facet of the game. He was a good percentage player: he totaled more than one thousand walks and stole 474 bases with an 80% success rate. Even by the strictest of measures, Roberto Alomar is a Hall-of-Famer.
 
Kevin Appier – 169-137, 3.74 ERA, 1994 strikeouts.
 
The fourth winningest Royal in team history, behind Paul Splittorff (166), Dennis Leonard (144), Mark Gubzica (132) Appier won 115 games for the Royals. He is first in career strikeouts and leads all Royal pitchers with 1000+ inning pitched in Adjusted ERA (130), as his 3.49 ERA is better, considering contexts, than Saberhagen’s 3.21 ERA.
 
Appier finished 3rd in the 1993 AL Cy Young Award voting , behind Jack McDowell and Randy Johnson. Appier led the AL in ERA with a 2.56 mark, which was thirty-eight points ahead of the second-place finisher, Wilson Alvarez. Neither McDowell (3.37) nor Randy Johnson (3.24) finished in the top-ten in ERA that year, but McDowell won 22 games and Johnson notched 308 strikeouts, and both pitchers threw about seventeen more innings than Appier.
 
Harold Baines – 2866 Hits, 384 HR, 1628 RBI, .289 BA, 120 OPS+
 
Harold Baines never hit thirty home runs in a single season, yet he hit 384 during his career. He passed the 100 RBI mark just three times, but he collected 1628 RBI during his career, more than George Brett or Rogers Hornsby or Harmon Killebrew. He passed 30 doubles just twice, but has 488 on his career count. He collected 175 hits exactly once in twenty-two seasons, but he finished just shy of 3000. The ultimate compiler of numbers.
 
Baines has collected 5% of the BBWAA vote in each of the three seasons he’s been on the ballot. It will be interesting to see if the arrival of another DH will change that outcome.
 
Ellis Burks – 402 2B, 352 HR, 181 SB, .291 BA
 
I remember when Ellis came up in 1987: that was a “youth movement” year for the Red Sox; a year when it seemed like the Red Sox were bubbling with young talent. In 1987, a year removed from a World Series loss, the Red Sox had Burks and Mike Greenwell and Sam Horn and Todd Benzinger and Jody Reed and some guy named Clemens, all under the age of twenty-five. The future seemed bright.
 
They won the AL East in 1988 and 1990, but were swept by the A’s both years, and by 1992 they were a lousy team waiting for another transfusion of youth.
 
Burks was the most exciting of the lot: he had early success where guys like Horn didn’t, and he sure seemed to have it all: speed and power and a good glove in center. Eric Davis was a popular player then, and I think most of us kids in Boston thought Ellis would be our version of Eric Davis.
 
Burks was one of two young outfielders who had good power/speed years in 1987:
 
 
Age
R
H
2B
HR
RBI
SB
BB
BA
Player 1
22
94
152
30
20
59
27
41
.272
Player 2
22
99
144
34
25
59
32
54
.261
 
Player 1 is Ellis Burks, who didn’t receive a single ROY vote (1987 was a bumper crop for rookie seasons). Player 2 is Barry Bonds.
 
Andre Dawson – 2774 Hits, 438 HR, 1591 RBI, .279 BA, .323 OPS, 314 SB, 8 Gold Gloves, 1987 MVP
 
Andre Dawson will eventually be elected to the baseball Hall of Fame. When he is, Dawson will have the worst on-base percentage of any outfielder ever elected.
 
Let’s go into that a little further: since 1901, 492 players have played 1000 or more games as outfielders. Of those 492, Dawson ranks 419th in career on-base percentage. His .423 mark ties him with Darren Lewis, Kevin Bass, Lee May, Jackie Brandt, Wally Post, and Red Murray.
 
That’s alright, I suppose. It’s absurd that he’ll be elected before Tim Raines, but it’ll be nice to have another Expo in the Hall. And he had a great nickname, “The Hawk.” And although he was a terrible MVP selection in 1987, Dawson was a fine player in the early 1980’s, before his knees came apart. He never met a pitch he didn’t like, but he was a fine outfielder and a good runner.
 
Andres Galarraga – 2333 Hits, 399 HR, 1425 RBI, .288 BA, 1993 Batting Champ
 
So you have Andre and Andres. The Hawk and the Big Cat. Dawson came up with the Expos and then moved to the Cubs at the age of 32, where his numbers went through the roof in the friendly confines of Wrigley. Galarraga came up with the Expos and then moved to the Rockies at the age of 32, where he hit .370 in Coors, winning the batting title and later posting three straight 40-homer seasons. Neither player walked a lot; both guys struck out three times for every base on balls.
 
Pat Hentgen – 131-112, 4.32 ERA, 1996 AL Cy Young
 
It’s hard to tell Halladay from Hentgen…in his 1996 Cy Young season, Hentgen was 20-10, with a 3.22 ERA in 265 IP, while leading the AL in shutouts (3) and complete games (10). In Roy Halladay’s 2003 Cy Young season, Doc was 22-7 with a 3.25 ERA in 266 IP. He also led the AL in shutouts (2) and complete games (9).
 
Creepy, eh?
 
Mike Jackson – 62-67, 3.42 ERA, 142 Saves
 
The historic bridge between Cleveland closers Jose Mesa and Steve Karsay. 
 
Eric Karros – 1724 hits, 284 HR, 1027 RBI, .268 BA, 1992 ROY
 
Eric Karros never played in an All-Star game.
 
That’s weird, isn’t it? I mean, Karros was never a great player, but he was pretty good for a long time. He was the Rookie-of-the-Year in 1992, and he played first base for a high-profile team. He had five years of 30 homers/100 RBI’s, which has always been All-Star-like, even during the 1990’s. Does anyone know of another player with five 30/100 seasons who never made an All-Star team?
 
I thought maybe Karros was a slow starter, the way that Mark Teixeira has been, but he actually posted better first-half numbers during his career.
 
Ray Lankford – 238 HR, 258 SB, .272 BA
 
Lankford, the Cardinals centerfielder for most of the 1990’s, was Ellis Burks without the terrific home parks: both men were fast centerfielders who developed some power as they aged; good players, but not Hall-of-Fame caliber players. Burks’ career road line was .279/.352/.480; Lankford’s career line was .273/.364/.480.
 
Barry Larkin – 2340 Hits, 198 HR, 379 SB, .295 BA, 116 OPS+, 3 Gold Gloves, 1996 MVP
 
Like Alomar, any question of Larkin’s place in the Hall of Fame centers around where he ranks among the all-time greats. He is an obvious Hall-of-Famer.
 
Larkin was probably a better defensive shortstop than he is given credit for: he just happened to come along at a time when Ozzie Smith was given the award annually. Having just made a cursory glance at the annual Gold Glove winners, there is about a fifty percent chance of repeating if you win a Gold Glove. I should really find out the exact percentage, but I need to get this out onto the site.
 
Edger Martinez – 2247 Hits, 309 HR, 1261 RBI, .312 BA, 147 OPS+
 
There are a few players I’d like to dedicate longer articles to, and Martinez is one of them. The idea is I’ll write a few articles on some of the more interesting or debatable players on the ballot, and give us a space to discuss their candidacy. So: there will be more on Edgar.
 
Don Mattingly – 2153 Hits, 222 HR, 1099 RBI, .307 BA, 127 OPS+
 
Last year I mentioned that Mattingly’s career batting line is very similar to Kirby Puckett’s. I think it is unlikely that Donnie Baseball will be elected by the writers, for a couple of reasons. First: his numbers, while dramatic during the 1980’s, pale in comparison to the first basemen of the next generation. Second, I think the acceptance of advanced measures will hurt his candidacy: his .307 batting average is offset by an on-base percentage of only .358. Lastly, the memory of Mattingly’s greatness is quickly fading: it will be easy to forget that he was one of the most iconic players of his time.
 
There are certainly more deserving candidates, but I don’t think the Hall of Fame would lose one iota of it’s credibility by having a player like Mattingly represented among its players. I don’t have a vote, but if I did I’d cast one for him.
 
Fred McGriff – 2490 Hits, 493 HR, 1550 RBI, 1305 BB, .284 BA, 134 OPS+
 
Which era do we place Fred McGriff in?
 
Through the age of thirty, McGriff was one of the top players in the game: from 1988 thru 1994 the Crime Dog posted adjusted OPS totals over 140 every year, finishing in the top-five in OPS each season. He seldom led the league in catagories (twice in HR, once in OPS), but McGriff was usually in the top-five in those stats we attribute to sluggardly sluggers.
 
But McGriff suddenly stopped being an elite slugger: his OPS+, starting in 1995, dropped from 157 to 119, then 119, then 106 and then 111 before rebounding in 1999. His numbers actually stayed the same: he still hit 25-35 homeruns, he still collected 90-100 RBI, but the players around him started getting a lot better.
 
I think the general belief is that McGriff was the last of the pre-steroid sluggers: the noble man adrift in a sea of HGH. If it is true of McGriff that he didn’t use steroids, and if it is true that the spike in performance of his competitors was due to steroid usage, it makes sense to view his numbers within the context of pre-steroid sluggers. By those metrics, McGriff’s 493 homeruns are more than enough to punch his ticket for the Hall of fame.
 
That said, there were changes in the game unrelated to steroids that caused the upswing in offense during the early 1990’s, and McGriff’s numbers were almost certainly aided by those changes: it is possible (and even likely) that the increase in offense merely disguised a precipitious dropoff in McGriff’s abilities.
 
Fred McGriff, on paper, looks like Mr. Consistancy: his numbers in Tampa Bay in 1999 and 2000 match almost perfectly his years in Toronto a decade earlier. But the impact of those numbers changed: posting a .269/35/96 Triple Crown line in 1989 meant that McGriff was the best hitter in the league. But posting a .277/27/106 line in 2000 was average for a first baseman. His career certainly appears consistent, but it isn’t. McGriff was a Hall-of-Fame caliber player in his twenties, but merely above average in his thirties.
 
Is it enough to make him a Hall-of-Famer? I don’t know. I’m curious how the vote will go for the Crime Dog.
 
Mark McGwire – 6 Triples, 583 HR, 1414 RBI, .263 BA, 162 OPS+, 1987 ROY
 
Nobody has ever hit homeruns with more frequency than Mark McGwire. Which, considering the homerun is the best possible outcome for an at-bat, makes McGwire a strong candidate for the Hall. 
 
I think, sometime next spring, McGwire will sit for one of those confessional interviews. He’ll do it before he starts his job as a coach for the Cardinals, and it’ll go a long way towards helping him get elected to the Hall of Fame. I’ll be happy when it’s over: I always liked Big Mac.
 
On a side note, has any other ‘feel-good’ story in sports gone off the rails as badly as the 1998 Home Run Race between Sosa and McGwire did? The only other one I can think of is the Nancy Kerrigan/Tonya Harding figure skating stuff.
 
Jack Morris – 254-186, 3.90 ERA, 2478 strikeouts, 105 ERA+
 
I’ve said this before, so I’ll be brief: Jack Morris’s win-loss record is an accurate reflection of the teams that he played for. Whenever Morris went 20-13 or 19-11 or 21-6, it was on a very good team. And whenever he went 6-14 or 15-18, he was on a lousy team. His career mark of 254-186 is a reflection of the quality of the teams he played for, and not a sign that he possessed a unique ability to ‘win.’
 
Led the league in Wild Pitches six times, and is one of just two modern pitchers to record over 200 wild pitches in his career (the other being Nolan Ryan, of course).
 
Dale Murphy – 398 HR, 1266 RBI, .266 BA, 121 OPS+, NL MVP in 1982 & 1983, 5 Gold Gloves
 
Let’s give him a separate column. This is getting too long.
 
Dave Parker – 339 HR, 1493 RBI, .290 BA, 121 OPS+, 1978 NL MVP, 3 Gold Gloves
 
Him, too. And for the record, the Cobra was a great nickname. Why don’t we have great nicknames anymore? Prince Albert? C’mon.
 
Shane Reynolds – 114-96, 4.09 ERA, 1403 strikeouts.
 
What am I going to write about Shane Reynolds? His Astros reached the postseason in 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2001, losing each series. The Astros were 2-12 during those playoff games.
 
David Segui – 139 HR, .291 BA, 131 GIDP
 
Segui is one of the ‘connectors’ of the steroid era: his name shows up in many of the documents released during that time period, and he has admitted to using anabolic steroids obtained from the Mets clubhouse attendant.
 
Lee Smith – 71-92, 478 Saves, 1251 strikeouts, 3.03 ERA, 131 ERA+
 
You know, I’ll write about him, too.  
 
Robin Ventura – 1006 Runs, 294 HR, 1192 RBI, .267 BA, 114 OPS+, 6 Gold Gloves
 
You could do a lot worse than have a career like Ventura’s. He won’t get into the Hall of Fame, but he had a fine career.
 
Ventura hit .301 with 32 home runs and 120 RBI for the Mets in 1999…how many third basemen have reached .300/30/100 in a season?
 
Thirty-three seasons, twenty players:
 
Name
HOF seasons
Chipper Jones
5
Alex Rodriguez
3
Eddie Mathews
2
Phil Nevin
2
David Wright
2
Vinny Castilla
2
Dick Allen
1
Al Rosen
1
George Brett
1
Mel OtT
1
Ken Caminiti
1
Gary Sheffield
1
Jim Thome
1
Ron Santo
1
AdrianBeltre
1
Tony Perez
1
Scott Rolen
1
Miguel Cabrera
1
Aramis Ramirez
1
Robin Ventura
1
 
Ventura was 3-for-19 against Nolan Ryan in his career. Probably should’ve been happy for the walk.
 
Todd Zeile – 2004 Hits, 253 HR, 1110 RBI, .265 BA
 
Oddly enough, Zeile platooned with Ventura at third base when they played on the Mets in 1999.
 
Zeile, as a few of you may remember, was one of the brightest prospects in baseball in the late 1980’s. He came up through the Cardinals system, and was moved to third base by Joe Torre, who took over the reigns of the team in mid-1990. (Actually, Torre was the third manager of the Cards that year, following Herzog and Red Schoendienst….when Torre is elected to the Hall, that will make the 1990 Cardinals the only team managed by three Hall-of-Famers).
 
Zeile was a lousy third baseman and, for a few years he wasn’t much of a hitter either. I suspect that asking the most highly touted prospect on the team to learn a new position in mid-season isn’t the best way to foster a young career.
 
Okay….cast your votes. And chime in on the articles about Parker, Murphy, and Smith.
 
(Dave Fleming is a writer preparing to leave Iowa City. He welcomes comments, questions, and packing tape here and at dfleming1986@yahoo.com)
 
 

COMMENTS (64 Comments, most recent shown first)

jrickert
Roberto Alomar
Tommy John
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Lee Smith

12:56 AM Jan 9th
 
cderosa
1. Raines
2. Alomar
3. McGwire
4. Blyleven
5. Larkin
6. Parker
7. Dawson
8. McGriff
9. Trammell
10. Edgar the Hammer

I believe recent decades and the 80s in particular are grossly underrepresented in the Hall of Fame, and I think the best thing a voter can do is use the whole ballot.

Another thanks from a straggler,
8:07 PM Jan 8th
 
azhitnik
Mark McGwire
Lee Smith
Roberto Alomar
Dale Murphy
12:58 PM Jan 8th
 
jimgus
OK, I waited far too long to reply. Thanks for keeping the balloting open for stragglers like me.

I cast my votes for:

Roberto Alomar - is he the fifth best 2B ever, or the sixth best? Regardless, he's among the best ever. By the way, Robbie gets my vote despite the HR off of Eckersly :-)

Andre Dawson - yes, the "real" hall has just elected him, but he would have gotten my vote anyway. Remember, when he came up, we all thought he was the second coming of Willie Mays. Of course, many players have been called, "The Next Mays," to their eventual detriment (Chili Davis anyone?). It seemed particularly appropriate for the early Dawson, didn't it? One enduring (non-playing) fact about Dawson: The Cubs offered him a blank contract and he signed for next to nothing... just to play.

Barry Larkin - Difficult to appreciate because he didn't have that one facet of his game that put him ahead of the rest of the pack. He just did lots of things very well.

Edgar Martinez - This guy really polarizes, doesn't he? I am staying away from the "Does a DH belong?" question and just looking at his career. He's not a slam-dunk, but he IS a Hall-of-Famer.

Mark McGwire - Being from the central valley, I was able to watch McGwire in Modesto and in Oakland. Forget the PED's, Mark McGwire is one of the greatest sluggers that ever played. His HR% is better than Babe Ruth's. He hit 49 HR's as a rookie (when the record was 38). He hit warning track flyballs on checked swings. I have an opinion about McGwire's PED use (too long to post here) with the eventual conclusion that he didn't believe that he was cheating. We can discuss it off line at jim_gustafson@earthlink.net but the bottom line is that Mark McGwire belongs in the Hall of Fame.

Dale Murphy - Mr. hard luck, eh? Well, I am hoping that the voters on this site live up to the hype as critical thinkers.
10:56 AM Jan 8th
 
Kev
McGriff
Larkin
Dawson
Alomar
Lee Smith
6:41 PM Jan 7th
 
RangeFactor
Roberto Alomar
Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson
Mark McGwire
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Lee Smith
Tim Raines
Dale Murphy
5:41 PM Jan 7th
 
Ron
Smith
Raines
Blyleven
Larkin
Morris
Alomar
4:56 PM Jan 7th
 
MWeddell
Alomar
Blyleven
Dawson
Larkin
Martinez
McGwire
Raines
Trammell
11:52 AM Jan 7th
 
stonerj
Alomar
Dawson
Larkin
Gallaraga
Smith
Mattingly
8:33 PM Jan 6th
 
rtayatay
Alomar
McGwire
4:16 PM Jan 6th
 
shayneconfer
Alomar
Larkin
Smith
Edgar
11:40 AM Jan 6th
 
hammer2525
Alomar
Larkin
Martinez
McGwire
Murphy
Smith
7:41 AM Jan 6th
 
UrbanShocker27
Oops, I missed the part about Blyleven and Raines being elected. Amended list:
Alomar
Larkin
McGwire

If anyone's interested, I've been blogging about the HOF on my site.
http://blogs.wvgazette.com/baseball/category/hall-of-fame/
6:56 PM Jan 5th
 
UrbanShocker27
Alomar, Larkin, Blyleven, McGwire and Raines.
6:38 PM Jan 5th
 
Scott_Ross
Alomar, Larkin, McGwire
1:13 PM Jan 1st
 
nickdemola
Alomar
Dawson
Larkin
Mattingly
McGwire
Morris
Smith

3:56 AM Dec 29th
 
Jack
My votes:

Two no-brainers:
Roberto Alomar
Barry Larkin

Four relatively borderline candidates I deem great enough to merit inclusion:
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Lee Smith
7:36 PM Dec 20th
 
papahans5
alomar
larkin
that's it.

i could live with the election of morris or edgar.

I go to cooperstown every year for induction weekend. but if/when dawson and mcgwire make it, i will skip that year.

as much as i loved donnie baseball, none of the other guys should be in the discussion.
12:01 AM Dec 20th
 
ventboys
Crime Dog was a 150 range hitter from 1987-1994, his peak period. He was famously one of the guys that refused to join in on the steroid revolution, so his post-strike numbers work out to more of a 110-120 player, with a couple of 140+ seasons in there. He was top 10 in the MVP voting 6 times in a row from 1989-1994. He was top 5 in OPS every year from 1988-1994.

He was, in a way, the NL's Will Clark. Both of them played several years after their peak as average to above average players, having a normal career pattern because they didn't take steroids and work out like fiends. What you do about that isn't my business, really, but it's important to remember that they were both considered Hall caliber players before the strike, and the onslaught of steroid use.

Harold Baines, he played forever and was good, not great for the greater portion of his career. However, look at his 1982-1988 performance. He, like Rusty Staub, was an allstar player if not an MVP candidate during his peak years. I figure that they are pretty good comps for each other, and rank in the middle of the class C category.
1:26 AM Dec 19th
 
jollydodger
Alomar & Larkin.
McGwire if you believe in "well everybody was doing it"

For HOF consideration, only let in the "OF COURSE" guys. If you have to think about it for more than 2 seconds, don't let him in.
10:56 PM Dec 18th
 
rangerforlife
Definitely "Yes": Larkin, Alomar, McGwire, Martinez

Hesitant "Yes": Ventura
BBPro rates Ventura's defense highly - so much so that more than half his value is defensive. I think that's what causes my system to rate him highly. I don't think of Ventura as a HoFer, but I don't know if his defense was that good or not. I kind of have to take others' words for it.

Borderline "No"/"Maybe next year": Dawson, Appier (very surprising), McGriff, Murphy

Solid "No": Mattingly, Smith, Parker

Absolutely "No": everyone else.
2:09 AM Dec 18th
 
bokonin
Alomar, Appier, Larkin, Martinez, McGwire. As well as all the guys we elected last year.
2:23 AM Dec 17th
 
Jongro
Alomar, Larkin, McGwire
12:19 AM Dec 17th
 
PeteDecour
I would vote for Alomar, Larkin, McGriff and McGwire.
6:28 PM Dec 16th
 
Richie
I thought advanced defensive metrics strongly suggest Alomar was mediocre defensively. Is that so?
11:52 PM Dec 15th
 
elricsi
Dawson
Larkin
E. Martinez
McGwire
Parker

P.S. I think you jumped the gun by stopping debate on Trammell, especially this year to see how he compares to Larkin. Also, with more new members on this site and a larger sample size, maybe he doesn't make it. Of course vote percentages almost never go down, so what do I know.
5:31 PM Dec 15th
 
jeffburroughs83
Alomar, Larkin, Martinez, McGwire, Murphy

A word for Martinez: A player's value has to be taken into consideration, and a lot of people seem to feel that since he didn't play the field he didn't have as much value. So by that standard, if he'd been an atrocious first baseman and put up the exact same hitting stats, he'd be a shoo-in? Because he really was a great hitter (no steroid rumors or crazy home park). I suppose you could argue that IF he'd played the field, his body may have worn down and he wouldn't have been as productive at the plate. Maybe. Like I said though, I think a guy ought to be looked at primarily for what he did, for the value he did have, and not on what he MAY have done. So if you think a .418 OBP, 35-45 doubles a season, and 100+ RBIs sounds like a Hall of Fame hitter (I do), then what's the argument here?
4:20 PM Dec 15th
 
bobburpee
Larkin
Alomar
Martinez
McGwire
Murphy
2:49 PM Dec 15th
 
evanecurb
McGwire
McGriff
McLarkin
McAlomar
Martinez
Smith
Dawson
Shane Reynolds
Mike Jackson
David Segui

Shane Reynolds, Mike Jackson, and David Segui are a sympathy votes (you don't have to count them if you don't want to; I'm only serious about the first seven), in recognition of the fact that no member of their familiear are either a member of the BBWAA or a BJOL subscriber, and gosh darn it, they tried just as hard as those other players did....
1:59 PM Dec 15th
 
OwenH
Okay, I say Alomar (all-time great at 2B, all-around stud, winning ballplayer); Larkin (also a terrific all-around player, only knock on him is injuries but he did have a long career); McGwire (amazing slugger, roids or no; his power and walks were almost unparalleled, and he could pick it); Lee Smith (terrific closer for a very long time; I think it takes a lot for a closer to get in, but Smith fits the bill); and Edgar Martinez (amazing hitter; like with closers, IMHO it takes extra for a DH to get in, since they don't play the field--but I think Edgar hit enough to warrant selection.) To me McGriff is about as borderline as they get; certainly an excellent player, and pretty dominant in his younger days, with a great postseason record -- but he also padded his stats with a fair amount of ordinary-ness while hangin' around as an oldie. I dunno, someone convince me otherwise about the Crime Dog ...
10:52 PM Dec 14th
 
metsfan17
I just took another look at Parker's stats. On second thought I just don't think he was a Hall of Famer either although he was for 5 seasons. But so were Mattingly and Murphy and I don't think they're in either. I just see Alomar, Larkin and McGwire in addition of course to Raines and Blyleven.
5:09 PM Dec 14th
 
cscully
Alomar
Larkin
Martinez
McGriff
McGwire
4:15 PM Dec 14th
 
joedimino
Whoops didn't read the whole article on first take . . . just realized you cut Blyleven, Raines and Trammell. Add Baines, Smith and Appier instead.

So final, final answer:

Roberto Alomar
Kevin Appier
Harold Baines
Andre Dawson
Barry Larkin
Don Mattingly
Mark McGwire
Dale Murphy
Dave Parker
Lee Smith
3:55 PM Dec 14th
 
joedimino
Guys that I would not have an issue with if they were elected . . . meaning there is a reasonable case that I can see for electing them. I have 16. I also think everyone should be forced to vote for 10, so they occasionally elect someone that isn't a no brainer before his 15th year of eligibility (and it would eliminate the non-unanimous election of guys like Ripken and Seaver).

Roberto Alomar
Kevin Appier
Harold Baines
Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Don Mattingly
Mark McGwire
Fred McGriff
Dale Murphy
Dave Parker
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
Alan Trammell
Robin Ventura

Generally what I do from there is pick the ones that stand out as I definitely want in, then from the borderline guys, I vote in reverse order of time on the ballot, so that I support the guys who have the least amount of time left.

The guys who I would definitely vote for are:

Roberto Alomar
Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson
Barry Larkin
Mark McGwire
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell

That leaves me 3 borderline adds, who will be:

Dave Parker
Dale Murphy
Don Mattingly

So final answer:

Roberto Alomar
Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson
Barry Larkin
Don Mattingly
Mark McGwire
Dale Murphy
Dave Parker
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
3:50 PM Dec 14th
 
Robinsong
Alomar
Larkin
Martinez
McGwire
Murphy
Parker
1:31 PM Dec 14th
 
JimPertierra
I would cast my votes for Alomar and Larkin. Other than that, I don't see Hall of Fame written over anyone else. Murphy, Like Mattingly, didn't do it long enough in spite of a great peak. I also have a hard time with Dawson even with a longer career. If I could I would also vote for Bert Blyleven, but....
1:26 PM Dec 14th
 
mkrob
Alomar
Larkin
Lee Smith
McGwire
12:56 PM Dec 14th
 
metsfan17
Alomar, Larkin, Parker and McGwire.

Alomar and Larkin are the only automatics even though Robbie fell apart quickly. Parker was a great ballplayer from around 75 to 79. The drugs ruined him for awhile but then he came back and had a pretty good decline phase. He's marginal though. Its hard to figure out McGwire but the numbers of course were amazing and even before the steroids he was hitting 30+ hrs in Oakland, walking a lot and was a good defender. As Bill James wrote in I think the 1991 Baseball Book, McGwire would be a good ballplayer if he hit .210. There are other good players but none do I think is a Hall of Famer
11:17 AM Dec 14th
 
chisox
Alomar
Larkin
McGwire (even though he was a one-note player)
Mattingly (as you note comaprable to Puckett, and iconic. In my opinion the gold standard for first base during his career.)
Dawson (so sue me, I loved the guy)
11:02 AM Dec 14th
 
jeffsol
Alomar
Larkin
McGwire

I'm on the fence on Edgar and McGriff, I'll say no for now.
12:46 AM Dec 14th
 
chuck
Alomar
Larkin
Edgar
McGwire

Alomar excelled in every facet except not getting caught stealing third with two out. He was caught 14 times doing this in his career, which is one-eighth of all his caught stealings. He also did it in game 2 of the '93 world series, with his team down by two runs in the 8th inning. I remember his zone ratings were kind of average when these started appearing in the 90's- that he was great going to his left and not so great covering the area to his right.

McGriff is close- I think Will Clark is closer. I voted for McGriff on Evan's ballot earlier this month, but not here. I'm on the fence with him.
12:09 AM Dec 14th
 
sdbunting
Alomar
Baines
Larkin
Martinez
McGwire
Murphy
Parker
Smith
8:24 PM Dec 13th
 
sandy32
McGwire, Alomar, Larkin
7:56 PM Dec 13th
 
Trailbzr
Alomar
McGwire
(and I concur with last year's BJOL selections)

BTW, if Jack Morris is elected, he'd be the only HOFer who never got a base hit.
7:49 PM Dec 13th
 
dburba
Alomar
Dawson
Larkin
McGwire (sigh)
5:36 PM Dec 13th
 
agcohen
My HOF ballot for this year:

Roberto Alomar
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Lee Smith
5:00 PM Dec 13th
 
monahan
Alomar
Larkin
Martinez
Mattingly
McGwire
Murphy
3:56 PM Dec 13th
 
kimchi
There are a number deserving, but none more than Murphy. Put his career alongside Duke Snider, and you'll see it's almost the same career. The differences are, the 2 MVPs, all the Gold Gloves...plus Snider was a great player on a series of great teams surrounded by other great players. Murf was great, on an occasionally good team, surrounded by mostly mediocrities.
12:07 PM Dec 13th
 
MattGoodrich
If I'm using some tough new standard for entry, I'd pick: Alomar, Larkin, McGwire, Murphy, Lee Smith. If I'm using the current HOF members as my guide, I'd also pick: Baines, Burks, Dawson, Edgar, Mattingly, McGriff, Morris, Parker.
11:29 AM Dec 13th
 
taosjohn
McGwire, Larkin, Alomar, and Lee Smith.
10:22 AM Dec 13th
 
jalbright
Alomar
Dawson
Larkin
McGwire
Murphy
Parker
8:36 AM Dec 13th
 
MarisFan61
P.S. I meant none of the newer candidates besides Edgar. I do realize this is his first shot.
4:24 AM Dec 13th
 
MarisFan61
Edgar Martinez
Don Mattingly
Jack Morris
Dave Parker

Sorry folks :-) that's it.
I believe in being a little tougher on newer candidates, and I don't think any of them merit a 'yes' vote. In future years I would probably say yes on at least a couple of them.
4:16 AM Dec 13th
 
aefskysa
Alomar
Larkin
Martinez
McGriff
McGwire
Murphy
4:05 AM Dec 13th
 
ventboys
Alomar
Baines
Dawson
Larkin
Martinez
Mattingly
McGriff
McGwire
Morris
Murphy

Lotta M's....
2:54 AM Dec 13th
 
rcberlo
My vote is for Alomar, Larkin, and McGwire. I'm on the fence about Edgar - maybe in another year ...
I'd like to see articles about Parker and Smith.
12:11 AM Dec 13th
 
JOHNGARCIA
Larkin
Martinez
McGwire
12:02 AM Dec 13th
 
jpjeter16
Alomar
Martinez
McGwire
Larkin
Ventura


11:28 PM Dec 12th
 
contrarian
Alomar
Larkin
Martinez
McGwire
10:03 PM Dec 12th
 
rtallia
Alomar
Larkin
Martinez
7:27 PM Dec 12th
 
rgregory1956
I'd only vote for three: Alomar, Larkin and McGwire
5:30 PM Dec 12th
 
3for3
Alomar
Larkin
McGriff
McGwire

2 middle infielders, and 2 very different 1st baseman sluggers.

McGriff also had some very healthy OBA's early in his career.


4:43 PM Dec 12th
 
schoolshrink
I would nominate the first four, in this order:
Robbie Alomar
Dave Parker
Jack Morris -- championships have to count for something
Andres Gallaraga

Edgar Martinez -- fair or not, I think he needed three more years of solid glove work to justify HOF induction. The M's could not much of anything right in the 80's, including recognizing how much better he was than Jim "Hound Dog" Presley. I would love to see your piece on him.

Robin Ventura: I was a huge fan of his -- a wonderfully consistent player.

Dave Parker has the same problem as McGuire: both were using performance enhancing substances. How performance enhancing was doing blow? How did it compare to injections in McGuire's gluteus max? In any event, McGuire will get in before Parker because of the sympathy call as you suggest, and we will continue to demonize coke use far more than steroids, regardless of whether one was more performance enhancing than the other. I honestly do not see one guy as really better than the other, and Parker's career longevity justifies HOF placement.


2:36 PM Dec 12th
 
77royals
Alomar
Larkin
McGwire
Blyleven
Dawson
Parker
Martinez
Smith
2:27 PM Dec 12th
 
 
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