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Comp List

October 5, 2007

            Do you all remember Mike Greenwell?   Used to play left field for the Red Sox, good hitter but not exactly Devon White in the field?   The Baltimore Orioles would like to remember him a little more often. 

            Mike Greenwell in his career hit .303 with an on base percentage of .368, slugging percentage of .463.   These were almost exactly the same figures, it turns out, that the 2007 Baltimore Orioles had, as a team—when they won.   When they won, they were Mike Greenwell; when they lost, they were former Cubs and Astros catcher Scott Servais (.245/.305/.374.  Servais actually was .245/.306/.375.)

            For those of you who are connoiseurs of truly useless information, I took the batting, on base and slugging percentages for each major league team, and identified the player to whom this was most similar.   I kept expecting that I would find somewhere an exact match on all three stats, but I never did; you always come close, but I never exactly hit it—unless you count Oakland’s losses.   The Oakland A’s, in games they lost, hit .222 with a .300 on base percentage, .333 slugging.  As it happens, you can match that 10 plate appearances—two-for-nine with a walk and a double—and so some players did, four of them, I think.  But I didn’t remember any of those players and they’re not meaningful averages, so I didn’t think that was useful. 

            Almost every team, it turns out, hits like some slugging outfielder when they win—usually like a Hall of Famer—and almost everybody hits like a backup catcher when they lose.   You may not remember Bob Geren, Jimmie Coker, Darrell Miller, Jake Gibbs, Jerry McNertney, Norm Sherry and Phil Roof, but they’re all backup catchers.  The Tampa Bay Devil Rays when they lost actually hit almost exactly like their own backup catcher, Raul Casanova, although I listed another one.   Herewith the comps:

 

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Arizona in Wins            .281  .355  .480           Dave Winfield

Arizona in Losses         .209  .274  .325           Dave Stegman

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Atlanta in Wins             .312  .383  .480           Goose Goslin

Atlanta in Losses          .232  .286  .350           Bob Geren

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Baltimore in Wins         .304  .369  .461           Mike Greenwell

Baltimore in Losses       .245  .305  .374           Scott Servais

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Boston in Wins             .308  .393  .508           Indian Bob Johnson

Boston in Losses          .235  .313  .348           Al Luplow

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

White Sox in Wins        .291  .363  .500           Billy Williams

White Sox in Losses     .208  .278  .324           Dave Stegman

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Cubs in Wins                .303  .363  .483           Pedro Guerrero

Cubs in Losses             .235  .297  .353           Jimmie Coker

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Cincinnati in Wins         .302  .375  .502           Jim Bottomley

Cincinnati in Losses      .235  .301  .378           Dale Sveum

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Cleveland in Wins         .291  .372  .478           Al Kaline

Cleveland in Losses      .234  .298  .352           Jimmie Coker

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Colorado in Wins         .318  .389  .515           Goose Goslin

Colorado in Losses       .228  .306  .334           Jim Gosger

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Detroit in Wins             .319  .383  .529           Babe Herman

Detroit in Losses           .246  .295  .369           Tom Brookens

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Florida in Wins             .308  .380  .527           Chick Hafey

Florida in Losses          .233  .297  .383           Dale Sveum

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Houston in Wins           .294  .370  .497           Gabby Hartnett

Houston in Losses        .231  .295  .342           Jim Hegan

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Kansas City in Wins     .313  .376  .477           John Stone

Kansas City in Losses   .221  .278  .318          Chuck Cottier

 

            I remember all of these guys, by the way.   John (Rocky) Stone was a 1930s outfielder, very similar to Mike Greenwell.   Chuck Cottier was a 1960s middle infielder, about whom Shirley Povich used to tell this story.   One time he was sitting on the Senators bench, getting near game time, and he said, “well, I’d better get out of here or Gil Hodges will put me in the game.”

            “Don’t worry about it,” said Cottier.  “I’ve been sitting there for weeks, and he hasn’t put me in yet.”   The only player here that I actually don’t remember is Andy Tomberlin. 

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Dodgers in Wins           .307  .371  .458           Bubbles Hargrave

Dodgers in Losses        .241  .299  .349           Darrell Miller

 

            Darrell Miller, who I think was the first player drafted one year, was the older brother of basketball superstar Reggie Miller, and also of women’s basketball star Cheryl Miller. 

 

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Angels in Wins              .315  .377  .471           John Stone

Angels in Losses           .239  .295  .339           Jerry McNertney

 

            McNertney, you will recall, is a character in Bouton’s classic, Ball Four.

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Milwaukee in Wins       .298  .369  .521           Hal Trosky

Milwaukee in Losses    .221  .282  .384           Ron Karkovice

 

            Hal Trosky would be in the Hall of Fame except for debilitating headaches that started when he was about 25.   Karkovice, like Jim Hegan, hit like any other backup catcher but had such exceptional defensive skills that he was a regular.

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Minnesota in Wins        .296  .370  .464           Rico Carty

Minnesota in Losses     .232  .288  .318           Jake Gibbs

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Yankees in Wins           .330  .408  .543           Stan Musial

Yankees in Losses        .232  .302  .349           Jimmie Coker

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Mets in Wins                .299  .372  .487           Gabby Hartnett

Mets in Losses             .246  .305  .366           Russ Morman

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Oakland in Wins           .293  .376  .486           Al Kaline

Oakland in Losses        .222  .300  .333           Torey Lovullo

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Philadelphia in Wins      .306  .388  .522           Mo Vaughn

Philadelphia in Losses   .232  .307  .376           Andy Tomberlin

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Pittsburgh in Wins         .305  .368  .494           George Brett

Pittsburgh in Losses      .230  .289  .347           Coco Laboy

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

San Diego in Wins        .279  .355  .472           Bobby Bonilla

San Diego in Losses     .216  .279  .336           Norm Sherry

 

            Norm Sherry used to be famous for the role that he played in turning around the career of Sandy Koufax.   Koufax, apparently, struggled for years because whenever he got in trouble he would just try to blow away hitters with his fastball.   Josh Beckett used to do that, too.

            It brings up another side topic, which is “players who are famous for their influence on another player.”   Bobby Castillo, for example, used to be famous for teaching Fernando Valenzuela to throw a screwball.  

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

S Francisco in Wins      .292  .363  .454           Bruce Campbell

Giants in Losses            .223  .287  .332           Kevin Bell

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Seattle in Wins              .313  .363  .482           Babe Phelps

Seattle in Losses           .252  .304  .354           Joe McEwing

 

            Babe Phelps was basically a backup catcher, too, albeit a backup catcher who could really hit.   He was sort of a regular from ’36 through ’40, lost his job in ’41 when the Dodgers trained in Havana.  He had a phobia about travelling over water, and, although he tried to, he could not force himself to get on the boat.   At least, that’s the story as I remember it. . ..

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

St. Louis in Wins          .318  .380  .450           Bill Dickey

St. Louis in Losses        .229  .294  .321           Cap Peterson

 

            Every team hit at least 57 points higher in wins than they did in losses, but no team was 100 points higher, although some (including the Cardinals) were close.   I tried to generalize about the differences, something like “teams with bad pitching have a wider separation because they have to hit more to win.”   But that’s not quite it. . .there is some pattern there, but I don’t understand it yet. 

           

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Tampa Bay in Wins      .313  .382  .523           Chick Hafey

Tampa Bay in Losses    .235  .301  .367           Danny Goodwin

 

            Chick Hafey was selected to the Hall of Fame, but shouldn’t have been.   Danny Goodwin was selected number one in the draft twice, but shouldn’t have been, either.  Everybody makes mistakes.

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Texas in Wins               .313  .383  .522           Chick Hafey

Texas in Losses            .218  .277  .340           Kenny Williams

 

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Toronto in Wins            .284  .355  .465           Dave Nilsson

Toronto in Losses         .232  .295  .371           Bob Tillman

 

 

Team and Group        Avg.  OBP  Slg.          Most Similar Hitter

Washington in Wins      .302  .370  .469           Rico Carty

Washington in Losses   .217  .284  .323           Phil Roof

 
 

COMMENTS (2 Comments, most recent shown first)

wovenstrap
I wonder if there isn't something more useful here. Andy's comment, about the difference between the lines -- isn't this a proxy for marginal value, so important to Win Shares? Can't we say that if Washington hits .217/.284/.323 they will lose every game they play, so that value resides in the extent to which that is exceeded?
6:43 AM Mar 8th
 
AndyAndres
Neat study.

This may be another way to measure Team "quality of pitching faced" by looking at the difference between the Wins line and the Loses line. On he flip side of the quality of pitching faced, maybe the team with the smallest difference in the two lines had the best "hitting quality?" Interesting stuff...
2:06 PM Jan 22nd
 
 
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