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The Trade

August 1, 2008

In his first letter to the Corinthians, some guy named Paul (McCartney? Molitor?) describes the way we see the world as, ‘through a glass, darkly.’ Or, alternately, as ‘though a dim window, obscurely.’ Or: ‘a curved lens.’  

I was thinking about this yesterday as I followed the news of the trade involving Manny Ramirez, Jason Bay, and Andy LaRoche. Other players were involved, too, but for the sake of this essay I’ll leave them out of the discussion.

In the rush to pass summary judgments on which teams won and lost during the trades, it seems to me that the media showed a readiness to see yesterdays trade through a glass darkly, and reach conclusions that are, by virtue of that dark glass, distorted.  

Manny Ramirez is one of the most talented men to ever play the game of baseball. He is a genius hitter: one of the most talented, intelligent men to ever swing a bat. Not enough, I think, is made of Manny Ramirez’s intelligence: everything else aside, he is an extraordinarily smart hitter: disciplined and tactical. As many articles have stated, he will almost certainly be elected to the baseball Hall of Fame when he retires. He has hit more than 500 homeruns.

These are true statements. Yet when one uses such statements, one distorts our understanding of the event itself: the trade is of Andy LaRoche for Jason Bay for Manny Ramirez is a different thing when one mentions that Manny Ramirez is a future Hall-of-Famer. Suddenly we are considering one of the greatest hitters of all-time, against, well, a guy stuck in AAA. Suddenly it’s 510 homeruns versus 140.  

The comments surrounding questions about Manny’s attitude, the possibility that he faked injuries or was trying to force a hand, the news of closed-door meetings and secret player votes, they, too, distort the glass through which we understand this trade. Which isn’t to say that such elements aren’t valid – certainly they are valid questions, and open for discussion. But these elements are unquantifiable: they lay beyond our capacity to understand them. A writer I admire stated emphatically that the Red Sox would not have gone to the postseason with Manny Ramirez on the team. This is merely a hypothesis, an unknown, but the writer stated it as fact.

Certainly, I don’t begrudge sportswriters: they are asked to make predictions, to use the information they have to reach conclusions. And: many of them have access to a world that I don’t have access to. In a way, they are allowed to see nuances that we cannot; contexts that exist away from the field.  

Still, knowing such contexts can blur truth.

Certainly, Manny Ramirez is a greater player than Jason Bay. Over their careers, it isn’t close: Jason Bay will never reach the heights that Manny has.  

What is also clear, at least to my mind, is that right now, in this moment, Jason Bay is a greater player than Manny Ramirez. He has 17.85 Win Shares to Manny’s 14.81. Jason Bay is +24 as a base runner this year, while Ramirez is a -4. Jason Bay is, by all objective and subjective measures, a better leftfielder.

There are questions about Manny’s motivations, about his commitment. Whether such questions are based on facts, on truths, or if they are based on hearsay and suggestion, such questions exist. I have never heard a critical word said about Jason Bay.  

Yet a large portion of the media discusses this trade as “the Red Sox cutting bait.” They made a trade because “they had to.” Such comment, I think, is a stretch. The Red Sox did not have to trade Manny Ramirez: had no team made an offer it is unlikely that the Red Sox would hand him an outright release. Nor was it ‘cutting bait,’ an act that suggests they received nothing in return. Jason Bay is not nothing: he is an All-Star outfielder who has outperformed Manny Ramirez this year.

Going forward, Jason Bay is seven years younger than Manny Ramirez. This seems an important consideration. Take away the names: who is more likely to continue to be an effective player, the thirty-six year old or the twenty-nine year old? Who is more likely to remain an effective player: the player with one specific skill, or the player with a diverse range of skills?  

Writers have also suggested David Ortiz will suffer because he no longer has Manny Ramirez hitting behind him. This is absurd on two levels: first, there has never been any concrete evidence that suggests player’s ability is altered by who bats behind them in the batting order. And second, Jason Bay has been a better hitter than Manny Ramirez this year.

But we are used to hearing about Ortiz and Manny: we have been hearing them described as the greatest 3-4 in baseball. They are the Ruth/Gehrig of their generation, the Aaron/Mathews. Subtract Manny from that equation and we don’t know what to make of it. We've had six years of Ortiz/Manny, and set against that we have only the imagined scenario of Ortiz and Jason Bay. One is more compelling, more convincing, even if the other is, by objective measures, more beneficial to the team.   

And then there is Andy LaRoche. It is entirely possible, even probably, that the Pirates got the most valuable player in this trade. Not the greatest player, mind you, but the one who possesses the most value to his team going forward.

Consider: in 167 games in AAA, LaRoche has posted a .310/.412/.544 line. In those 167 he walked 101 times, struck out 88 times, and hit 33 homers. He is twenty-four years old, and isn’t eligible for free agency until 2011. He will get a chance to play in Pittsburgh, a chance he was not given in Los Angeles. He has a brother who is a successful major league player, who also plays for the Pirates. What is his value to the Pirates? Does he have greater or less value to that team than a player like Jason Bay?  

Of the three players, who is most likely to be an effective major league player in 2009? In 2010? In 2013? Who will be the most cost-effective? Who will be the biggest star?

Come October, we’ll have more clarity on this trade. We’ll know if the Red Sox made a push for the AL East, and whether or not the Dodgers won the NL West. In another year, we’ll be able to see how Jason Bay does in a full year at Fenway Park, and we’ll know if Manny’s option is picked up by LA, or, in testing the free agent market, whether or not he signs with the Yankees. In two years we’ll have a glimpse into Andy LaRoche’s career. In five years, in ten, we’ll have a rich understanding of all of these elements.  

But, like that guy Paul said, we see now through a glass, darkly. It’ll take a few years for that glass to become clear.

 

 
 

COMMENTS (13 Comments, most recent shown first)

jollydodger
I don't know whether Ortiz will suffer or not w/o Manny behind him, but PLEASE don't question the idea that batting position doesn't matter in individual stats. Look at Boston's own JD Drew this year while Ortiz was out. He RAKED.....guess why? His new place in the lineup! Ask Roger Maris if his spot in the lineup might have helped him hit 60 HR in 1961.
1:20 AM Aug 10th
 
DaveFleming
There are a lot of ways to measure 'intelligent hitting.' Drawing walks or seeing a lot of pitches are, I think, reasonable measures of a hitter's intelligence.

Another way to measure player intelligence is their ability to maintain a level of play. Most players peak at 27-28, and then decline. Intelligent hitters would be better able to adjust to that decline.

Manny has adjusted: his skills have diminished, but he is still an excellent hitter at an advanced age. Compare him with, say, Juan Gonzalez: they were similiar players, but Manny managed to remain effective, whereas Gonzalez didn't. Jim Rice lost his effectiveness pretty quickly, but Dwight Evans was effective until his late 30's. Dale Murphy fell off a cliff at age 32.

There are a few other ways one could define 'hitting intelligence.' I'll try to address this issue in a longer column.


6:22 PM Aug 8th
 
Richie
If Manny is "clearly" an intelligent hitter, then what is the 'clear standard' you are basing this on? If it's drawing walks, are you prepared to say Donnie B. and Vladdie are good but "unintelligent" hitters? If you refuse to identify any 'good but unintelligent' hitters, then yes, you are just being tautological.
10:20 PM Aug 7th
 
timconnelly
I wanted to comment on whether being an "intelligent hitter" is a useless repetition of "successful hitter"- it certainly isn't in the case of Manny. Dave was making the case that even though Manny says many things that might be interpreted as impulsive, selfish and out of control- that his words and actions often cause him needless trouble. Dave's point was that Manny is a very intellgent man who isn't impulsive or out of control once he's in the batter's box. Yes, the walks are an indication of that. His OBP is 50 points higher than Mattingly's so there's no doubt that his patience & willingness to wait for the right pitch- it made him a much more effective and valuable hitter than Donnie B.

You're asking for a one size fits all definition of an intelligent hitter. Some pull hitters pull the ball too much. You have to evaluate a hitter based on observation and objective stats to get a good picture. But clearly Manny is a very intelligent hitter beyond the obvious talent that he has.
10:52 AM Aug 6th
 
800redsox9
The NY Press jumped all over the trade, to the gist of "The Red Sox are conceding 2008". It was unscientific and nauseating. Your cogent analysis quantified what my gut was telling me, Manny may have "quit" on the Sox, but he is certainly heading to the declining years, and Bay looks at least his equal (currently) and is motivated. 3 years ago losing Manny would have been a nightmare, but not now. And look how well the Nomar "addition by subtraction" worked out.

Now if only somebody can get a hit tonight off the Mr. Meche of the Royals. Ugh.
10:29 PM Aug 4th
 
800redsox9
The NY Press jumped all over the trade, to the gist of "The Red Sox are conceding 2008". It was unscientific and nauseating. Your cogent analysis quantified what my gut was telling me, Manny may have "quit" on the Sox, but he is certainly heading to the declining years, and Bay looks at least his equal (currently) and is motivated. 3 years ago losing Manny would have been a nightmare, but not now. And look how well the Nomar "addition by subtraction" worked out.

Now if only somebody can get a hit tonight off the Mr. Meche of the Royals. Ugh.
9:41 PM Aug 4th
 
evanecurb
Very well said. I continue to be impressed by the progress that has been made in recent years in forecasting the future value of groups of players. There can always be exceptions rules as they relate to individuals, but if the three teams above apply the type of logic described in this summary on a consistent basis over time, the Red Sox and Pirates will come out ahead, and the Dodgers will lose out. As has been pointed out many times in many places, it is a losing strategy to construct a team in such a manner as to make it necessary to find multiple replacement players every year. That is what happens to teams that rely heavily on players in their mid to late 30's.
11:05 AM Aug 4th
 
Justyo
Yes! As Jason Bay's first two games at Fenway suggest, he will be a great fit with Pedroia and Youkilis and anyone who doubts it's Youk's team, you're not watching too closely.
10:59 AM Aug 3rd
 
Richie
Hey, me and the Stevester are likethis. I got Steve's back.

Dave, you're traipsing towards tautology-land here. "Ralph is good at such-and-such, therefore he has good such-and-such 'intelligence'." Unless you can identify some good-but-nevertheless-nonintelligent hitters for me, I think you're residing there.

If you're suggesting drawing walks shows intelligence, was Mattingly a successful but non-intelligent hitter? Maybe he was. I dunno. If going the other way shows intelligence, are dead-pull hitters non-intelligent ones? And is "measuring subjectively" a contradiction in terms? Not a philosophy major, but I suspect so.
4:18 PM Aug 2nd
 
ksclacktc
Thanks goodness we have someone to apologize for Steve Phillips.
2:24 PM Aug 2nd
 
DaveFleming
On Manny's intelligence: while he's certainly not articulate about how he hits, I suspect that there is a strong correlation between 'success as a hitter' and 'hitting intelligence.'

I mean, how would one measure hitting intelligence? I assume we'd measure statistically AND subjectively. Statistically: well, Manny's a damned fine hitter. He draws lots of walks and hits the ball really hard. Subjectively: I've watched a lot of Manny AB's, and from my subjective standpoint, he is a damned smart hitter. He has always been very good at adjusting to the pitch, at driving outside fastballs to the opposite field, and about predicting and adjusting to a pitcher's off-speed stuff.

It's a loose term, hitting intelligence. But if your asking me to assume Manny isn't an intelligent hitter on the basis of an offhand quote like, "I only pay attention to the count when I have two strikes," especially when that quote is contradicted by all empirical evidence...well, I'm not convinced.

Please keep the comments coming. I'm grateful for the discourse.
1:28 PM Aug 2nd
 
Richie
In defense of 'talking heads', if they don't spout out opinions left, right and center, they'll be fired and replaced by someone who will so spout. They're expected to debate ideas/notions, and wrap up those debates quickly enough so that if you the viewer are uninterested in that particular one, it doesn't go on long enough to motivate you to change the channel. It's a heckuva lot harder than it looks.

The only thing I recall Manny saying about hitting is that he has no idea what the count is until he gets to 2 strikes. Just because he's really really good at it doesn't mean he's 'intelligent' about it. Maybe he's good because he doesn't waste focus analyzing up there and just reacts.
11:56 AM Aug 2nd
 
ksclacktc
Finally, someone willing to think and be honest about it - as the Red Sox are I'm sure. All you have to do is listen to talking heads like Steve Phillips to realize why they are no longer employed at the MLB level.
9:14 AM Aug 2nd
 
 
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