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Biscuit Pants and the Prince

August 21, 2008


Seven years, eight on the outside. That’s how long it’ll take. If his elbow holds out, if he avoids any major injuries, Albert Pujols will go down in history as the greatest first baseman of all-time, taking the title away from Lou Gehrig.

It’s a long ways away, but Albert Pujols is making a run at Gehrig. Furthermore, his is a historically remarkable challenge: Albert Pujols is the greatest threat to Gehrig’s title since Jimmie Foxx hung ‘em up in 1945.

 

Larrupin’ Lou 

In 1999 Major League Baseball asked baseball fans to vote for the All-Century Team, choosing the very best players at every position. It was a rather public spectacle, with over 2.5 million ballots cast. It wasn’t a great vote: Nolan Ryan netted the most votes of any starting pitcher, Cal Ripken, Jr., and Ernie Banks edged out Honus Wagner at short, and Pete Rose received more votes than Stan Musial. Still: the leading vote-getter at any position was Lou Gehrig. 

This, I think, reflects the general consensus of baseball fans: Lou Gehrig is the greatest first baseman who ever lived. His grip on the title has survived all comers, has outlasted scores of terrific players. His numbers have survived the sabermetric revolution that forced us to take second looks on peers like George Sisler and Bill Terry. And even as lesser players like Fred McGriff and Rafael Palmeiro pass some of Gehrig’s career numbers, his legacy has endured.

Two qualities define Lou Gehrig’s hitting: he was a truly great hitter, and he was a remarkably consistent hitter. From the age of 23 until he was 35, Lou Gehrig compiled 13 consecutive years of remarkable production. Benefiting from a terrific Yankee lineup, Gehrig scored and drove in 100 runs every single year. He walked between 95 and 132 times and posted an on-base average over .400, every year. He had eight 200-hit seasons in those 13 years, ten 30-homer seasons. He was great, and he was always great.

It is the second qualification that separated him from the other first basemen. Take Jimmie Foxx, Gehrig’s great rival for the title: Foxx made it to the majors at seventeen, and at the age of 30, it was Foxx who had the better numbers: 

Thru Age 30

G

HR

RBI

Avg

OBP

Slg

OPS+

Gehrig

1384

299

1285

.342

.442

.636

181

Foxx

1710

429

1520

.335

.437

.635

169

 

But Foxx didn’t age well, and Gehrig caught up:

Post Age 30

G

HR

RBI

Avg

OBP

Slg

OPS+

Gehrig

780

194

710

.337

.457

.626

175

Foxx

607

105

402

.296

.400

.530

144

 

Two other challengers to Gehrig, Hank Greenberg and Johnny Mize, were comparable to Gehrig through their late twenties:

Thru Age 29

G

HR

RBI

Avg

OBP

Slg

OPS+

Gehrig

1232

267

1146

.343

.444

.640

182

Greenberg

1030

247

1003

.326

.418

.625

161

Mize

996

184

763

.331

.413

.588

169

 

Unfortunately, Mize and Greenberg lost playing years to World War II, and with those lost years the title of Greatest of All-Time slipped away from them.

All three challengers, Foxx, Greenberg, and Mize, were direct contemporaries of Gehrig, men who were in the major leagues when Gehrig was pilling up numbers in the Bronx. They had their shots at the title: if Foxx had remained healthy, he’d be the greatest there ever was. If there hadn’t been a war, perhaps Greenberg or Mize would have given the Iron Horse a challenge. But they didn’t.

For a long time after that, no one really challenged Gehrig. McCovey might have challenged, but he started way too late, blocked by Cepeda at first. Dick Allen was as fine a hitter as anyone, but he was out of the game at a young age. Mattingly was, at least for a time, linked with Gehrig (left-handed Yankee 1B’s who set grand slam records and won MVP’s), but Mattingly was never the complete hitter Gehrig was. Eddie Murray certainly had the consistency of Lou Gehrig, but not the peak.

 

The Big Hurt

The next real challenge to Gehrig’s title as the best first baseman of all-time was Frank Thomas. For ten years, it looked like Thomas was going to join the ranks of the all-time great hitters in history:

Thru Age 29

G

HR

RBI

Avg

OBP

Slg

OPS+

Gehrig

1232

267

1146

.343

.444

.640

182

Thomas

1076

257

854

.330

.452

.600

182

 

Like Gehrig, Thomas was an elite young hitter, a power hitter who also excelled at drawing walks and making pitchers work.

Thomas had a slight edge in playing time: the Big Hurt arrived in the major leagues in 1990, when he was 22 years old. By the next year he was a regular player, already the best hitter in baseball. Gehrig wasn’t a full-time player until he was 23, giving Thomas a year’s head start on Gehrig.

But Thomas faded. At age 30 and 31 he was a good hitter, but he wasn’t the great hitter he had been. He had a fine season in 2000, finishing second in the AL MVP vote, but then he missed most of 2001, 2004 and 2005 with various injuries. He went from playing first base to being the team’s designated hitter, and has now played more games as a DH than as a 1B (1303 games to 971). Again, the brilliance and consistency of Gehrig’s career kept him ahead of Thomas.

 

Prince Albert

Which brings us to Albert Pujols. He is coming to the end of his Age-28 season, and he is holding his own against Lou Gehrig:

Thru Age 28

G

HR

RBI

Avg

OBP

Slg

OPS+

Gehrig

1076

233

995

.342

.443

.643

182

Pujols

1205

308

938

.333

.424

.620

168

 

If there has ever been a first baseman more consistently great than the Iron Horse, it is Albert Pujols. This is his eight major league season, and short of an injury it will be the 8th season in which he hits 30 homeruns with 100 RBI’s and a .300 batting average. He will post the best on-base percentage of his career this year, and will certainly finish in the top-ten in the MVP vote, as he has every year he’s been in the major leagues.

Like Thomas, Pujols has an edge in playing time: he was a regular in the major leagues at Age 21. A look at season-by-season Win Shares illustrates Pujols’ edge:

Win Shares

Gehrig

Pujols

Foxx

 Age 17-20

0

0

30

Age 21

2

29

34

Age 22

1

32

34

Age 23

15

41

24

Age 24

30

37

41

Age 25

44

34

41

Age 26

42

37

31

Age 27

32

32

30

Age 28

39

24

26

Total WS

205

266

291

 

At this writing, Pujols is sixty-one Win Shares ahead of Gehrig, the equivalent of two MVP-type seasons. He is an MVP season behind Foxx, but Foxx tails off dramatically at Age 32.

Win Shares

Gehrig

Foxx

Age 29

36

23

Age 30

38

34

Age 31

36

30

Age 32

41

24

Age 33

34

20

Age 34

38

5

Age 35

36

0

Age 36

25

0

Age 37

0

8

Total

284

144

 

Pujols is 223 Win Share behind Gehrig, about seven good seasons behind him. Furthermore, Pujols shows signs of improving as a hitter: he will set a personal bests in on-base percentage this year, and has a chance to draw 100+ walks for the first time in his career. Additionally, Pujols is establishing a reputation as the finest fielding first baseman of his generation, a credential that Gehrig cannot claim.

Seven years….a lot could happen in seven years. Pujols’ elbow could give way, or he could suffer an injury from an errant fastball. He is approaching his decline, and while all indicators suggest that his will be a gradual one, it’s hard to predict the success of any player seven years out.

But Pujols is holding his own. Against the very best, against the immortal Lou Gehrig, Albert Pujols is making a case that he is the greatest player to ever play first base.

And I hope he gets there. I really do.

Lou Gehrig is one of my two favorite players of all-time, but if Albert Pujols passed him, well, I think that’s a good thing. Baseball is an enduring game: it has an old history and long seasons, and it has numbers that tell stories. Because of those factors, the game fosters a kind of discussion and debate that no other American sport can offer.  I love those discussions, those debates: it is those discussions that brought me initially to the game, those discussions that keep me watching today. 

Seven years from now, if Albert Pujols keeps on keeping on, we’ll have a good one to talk about.

 

 

 
 

COMMENTS (16 Comments, most recent shown first)

evanecurb
Walter Johnson picked Hal Chase? Interesting. Babe Ruth reportedly didn't like Gehrig so no wonder he didn't pick him. Verducci can pick whoever he wants I guess, and who doesn't love Stan Musial?
1:50 AM Aug 29th
 
DaveFleming
Thanks for the kind words, 'evanecurb.'

There are a couple of All-Time teams that don't list Gehrig as the best at first base. Babe Ruth and Walter Johnson both selected Hal Chase for their All-Time teams.

More recently, SI's Tom Veducci picked Stan Musial over Gehrig at first (which is something of a stretch as Musial played 1890 games in the outfield, and only 1016 at first base). He listed Foxx as the back-up.
10:31 PM Aug 28th
 
evanecurb
I really enjoy Dave's contributions. Please keep them coming. This is one of the best yet. I did not know that Gehrig was the leading vote getter on the all century team, but I don't think I have ever seen an all time team anywhere without Gehrig at first. Has anyone ever done a projection using Pecota or other methodology of a healthy Gehrig from ages 36-42? Seems like he would have made it to 600 HRs and possibly 715 if not for his illness.
9:47 PM Aug 26th
 
DaveFleming
Richie's right: the evidence is strong that having protection in a lineup has precious little influence on how well a hitter hits. A good lineup will help stats like RBI's and runs scored, but it will not affect a player's overall ability to hit. Ruth is a fine example: he had very poor 'protection' in the Yankee lineup before Gehrig arrived (Bob Meusel was the best hitter in those lineups, posting a 130 OPS+ each year), but Ruth managed to have his best years during that time.

If lineup protection effects a hitter at all, I would think an elite hitter hitting in a weak lineup would see an improvement in on-base average, but a loss in secondary average or slugging percentage.

This was certainly true for Gehrig. In 1934, the year between Ruth's departure and DiMaggio's arrival, Gehrig had a terrific on-base average and a career-high in walks, but his slugging percentage dropped dramatically.

3:37 PM Aug 24th
 
RoelTorres
Richie,

Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
1:24 AM Aug 24th
 
RoelTorres
Richie,

Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
1:21 AM Aug 24th
 
Richie
Regarding Roel, anything that affects all players, such as medicine, weight training, et.cet., will not affect Win Shares. If half the players had weight rooms and half were forbidden to enter such, only then would it affect Win Shares, in terms of their distribution. If you gave every MLB player a butt full of 'roids, this would neither increase nor decrease Win Shares. Just rearrange 'em a bit according to who benefits more from the 'roids and who doesn't. Or so I gather from them. Win Shares, not 'roids.

I thought the evidence was rock-solid that who you bat in front of or behind has microscopically little to do with how well you perform. With Ruth himself, my historical understanding was that prior to Gehrig the guys batting in front of and behind Ruth didn't do much of anything. And after Ruth left the Yankees, Gehrig kept hitting just like Gehrig. What did Bonds do for any of the guys hitting in front of or behind him?
10:00 PM Aug 23rd
 
jollydodger
I thinnk one BIG thing we're not mentioning is the guy who Gehrig batted behind a bulk of his career. Who has Pujols hit behind?

Imagine Pujols hitting behind Barry Bonds for a big chunk of his career. I know that lineup order doesn't alter a team's total run production, but from hitter to hitter, it matters. Ask JD Drew if hitting ahead of Manny might have helped his stats explode.

Point is, when you bat behind Babe Ruth, it affects your numbers. Its not something to be held against Gehrig, just something to remember.
6:39 PM Aug 23rd
 
3for3
I agree that the GG is far from a perfect measure for fielding prowess. Just look at the other mega multiple GG winners. By their 7th year, they had already won 3/4 or more GG's.

On the topic of peak versus overall, Pujols may well pass Gehrig for total WS, but as Bill himself will point out, that doesn't necessarily translate to a higher rating for AP. He went through many adjustments from raw WS to final rating, since, WS tends to reward players with great longevity more than pekk performance.
2:45 PM Aug 23rd
 
RoelTorres
From Dave:
Here's a question that I don't have an answer to: is it harder, in today's game, to have such high Win Share totals? With the larger pool of talent, with all the changes in the game, is a Win Share harder to come by?

From Richie:
The more even the level of competition, the harder it will be to put up gaudier Win Share totals.

From me:
Well, we also have factors on the other side that make it easier. Better doctors and medicine. Weight training. Smaller ballparks. Expansion watering down the talent level. Lasik eye surgery. Performance Enhancing Drugs.

Barry Bonds has win share seasons of 54,49,48,47,41,39,38. (And before anyone gets too accusatory, the 47 win share season came way back in 1993, the 41 win share season came in 1992.)

Are big win share seasons harder to come by? You know how I would answer that? I would go to the "Hey Bill" section of the site and post a question. Might as well get the answer from the right source...
1:11 PM Aug 23rd
 
Richie
The more even the level of competition, the harder it will be to put up gaudier Win Share totals. With some of the best players forbidden to play (Negro leaguers), with independent minor leagues containing however many players better than the bottom tier major leaguers, Gehrig's Win Shares were fattened up some by pounding on sub-replacement level players.

The only contradistinctive indicator I can think of is most all the best US athletes becoming baseball players during Gehrig's time. Which given the game's heavy emphasis on eye-hand coordination, I think can be overstated.
11:11 AM Aug 23rd
 
DaveFleming
Fine points on the Gold Glove issue....I was, perhaps, premature in stating that Pujols is the best of his generation. My main point was that Pujols is considered a fine fielder (at an unimportant defensive position). Gehrig's reputation, from what I've gathered, isn't quite as good.

Danny's point, and the general point that Gehrig has had the bigger seasons is an important one. Gehrig's top four Win Share totals are 44, 42, 41, and 39. Pujols nets a 41, 37, 37, and 34. Gehrig's peak was greater.

Here's a question that I don't have an answer to: is it harder, in today's game, to have such high Win Share totals? With the larger pool of talent, with all the changes in the game, is a Win Share harder to come by? I mean, all statistics are, to an extent, influenced by contextual elements. Is it possible that 1930's baseball was more likely to produce 40+ Win Share seasons than today's game?

If I knew a lick about math I could probably answer this. If anyone has some thoughts I'd be glad to hear about it.
10:31 AM Aug 23rd
 
demedici
The Gold Glove issue is sort of misleading. First, it doesn't actually measure good defense, but that can be put aside when you look at the way the award is won. Helton and Lee both put in a fair number of years before they started winning theirs, and then they went on streaks. Once you win, you are far more likely to win in the following years. In short, Pujols has won the hardest one: the first. I wouldn't be surprised if he wins 2 or 3 of the next 4. Still, his non-GG numbers suggest a brilliant 1b at least, if maybe not the best of his generation.
10:10 AM Aug 23rd
 
3for3
Two points against Pujols. One is the extra time he has played, in the win shares system gets more credit than in some other evaluative measures. Look at the seasons they both played. Starting with Lou's first full season he is 15 WS ahead of Pujols for the same time. Plus, there is little chance Puhjols will pass 39 WS this year.

As to the reputation for the finest fielding 1st bsaeman of his generation; the man has won just 1 GG, while their 2 other active 1st basemen who have 3 NL GG each. Someone with the reputation of finest of his generation should be winning it every year, and end with a total somewhere over 6 GG's. Hernandez, Mattingly, Power, White, Snow and Scott all won 6 or more GG's. He is a good firstbaseman, but let's not get carried away with his defense just yet.



9:58 AM Aug 23rd
 
demedici
The age is one thing, the high-grade ligament tear in his elbow and the distance left to travel are two others. 223 is a long way to go, and if Pujols misses his age 29 (or whatever age it is) season, then I imagine the odds are much worse. Additionally, I'm not sure how much greater he would be than Gehrig (at least compared to their times) if he passes Gehrig based on extra seasons played.

All the same, he's still the best pure hitter the game has seen in a while, plays an amazing first base, and is genuinely terrifying (not fake Jim Rice style) for opponents' fans.
3:09 PM Aug 22nd
 
Richie
Being a little presumptious in terms of 'concluding' this is Albert's age-28 season. Just a possibility there, is all I'm sayin'.
9:29 AM Aug 22nd
 
 
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