Remember me

OBA vs. Slg

November 12, 2008

There is a heated argument some people I know need resolved - OBP vs SLG.  It has be belief of many that OBP is more important for a team scoring runs than SLG.  If you take the last 5 years worth of data, SLG (r-squared of 77) correlates better to runs a team scores than OBP (r-qsquared of 73).  Has there been a shift towards power being more important or is OBP still king?  We know that other values like OPS+ and wOBP take both of these measures into account, but we want to answer the debate on SLG vs. OBP.

--Jeff in “Hey, Bill”

November 10, 2008

I took the batting records for all major league teams since the last strike, giving us 13 years of data (1996-2008).   The first thing I did was to test the basic Runs Created formula

(H + W) * TB/ (AB + W) = runs

I ran that for each team and each year, to see whether there was some sort of shift in offense.   For those 13 years, the formula was more accurate in 2008 than in any other season.   It's second-best year (among the 13) was 2007, it's third-best was 2006.

So the basic runs created formula, for some reason, has been working better in the last few seasons than it has in years. . .not that it was ever bad, but. . the standard errors have been going down.   Here’s the 2008 data:

YEAR

Lg

Team

Avg

OBA

Slg

Runs

RC

Error

2008

AL

Texas

.283

.354

.462

901

927

26

2008

AL

Boston

.280

.358

.447

845

887

42

2008

AL

Minnesota

.279

.340

.408

829

784

45

2008

AL

Detroit

.271

.340

.444

821

847

26

2006

AL

Chicago

.263

.320

.448

811

815

4

2008

AL

Cleveland

.262

.339

.424

805

776

29

2008

AL

New York

.271

.342

.427

789

798

9

2008

AL

Baltimore

.267

.333

.429

782

790

8

2008

AL

Tampa Bay

.260

.340

.422

774

785

11

2008

AL

Los Angeles

.268

.330

.413

765

747

18

2008

AL

Toronto

.264

.331

.399

714

720

6

2008

AL

Kansas City

.269

.320

.397

691

705

14

2008

AL

Seattle

.265

.318

.389

671

694

23

2008

AL

Oakland

.242

.318

.369

646

631

15

2008

NL

Chicago

.278

.354

.443

855

870

15

2008

NL

Philadelphia

.255

.332

.438

799

789

10

2008

NL

New York

.266

.340

.420

799

798

1

2008

NL

St. Louis

.281

.350

.433

779

850

71

2008

NL

Florida

.254

.326

.433

770

764

6

2008

NL

Atlanta

.270

.345

.408

753

783

30

2008

NL

Milwaukee

.253

.325

.431

750

764

14

2008

NL

Colorado

.263

.336

.415

747

765

18

2008

NL

Pittsburgh

.258

.320

.403

735

717

18

2008

NL

Arizona

.251

.327

.415

720

727

7

2008

NL

Houston

.263

.323

.415

712

721

9

2008

NL

Cincinnati

.247

.321

.408

704

698

6

2008

NL

Los Angeles

.264

.333

.399

700

725

25

2008

NL

Washington

.251

.323

.373

641

649

8

2008

NL

San Francisco

.262

.321

.385

640

673

33

2008

NL

San Diego

.250

.317

.390

637

680

43

I suspect that the essence of this problem is that the phrase “more important than” is imprecise, and is capable of different interpretations when you put your hands on the data.   It certainly is true that one point of on-base percentage is more significant than one point of slugging percentage, which some of us may sometimes translate loosely as “on base percentage is more important than slugging percentage.”   But on the other hand, the standard deviation of slugging percentage is essentially twice as large as the standard deviation of on base percentage.  The number of “points” is not the same.   You could generalize the data somewhat imprecisely as “one point of on base percentage is twice as important as one point of slugging percentage, but the differences between teams in slugging percentage are twice as large as the differences in on base percentage. . .therefore, the net impact is essentially the same.”   

In recent years the standard deviation of on base percentage on a team level has been very low (.011 over the last three years), which makes the “importance” of the category seem small on a team level.   But whether three to five years of data is enough to draw any conclusion here. . .I’d be skeptical.

 
 

COMMENTS (7 Comments, most recent shown first)

DBrennan
One possible explanation here - and I admittedly won't do any studies on this - is that, with the attention and emphasis teams have put on OBP in the past decade or so (particularly after the A's success in the early nineties)....

....players with high OBP but no speed skills are now regularly getting plate appearances, thus inflating their teams' OBP, but not their teams' RS by the degrees OBP had raised it prior. In the past, players like Rickey Henderson (at the extreme) "inflated" the apparent power of OBP because, sure, they got on base, but they also brought other skills: high batting average (advancing runners first-to-third), home runs, stolen bases, etc. But now, with OBP existing in something of a vacuum, teams are giving hitters with high-OBP, low-everything-else ABs.

So, I theorize that there are many players like the Giambi brothers, who are getting more playing time than they would've in prior decades because they have high OBPs. However, these OBP-only players have diminished run-scoring skills vs. the (fewer) OBP players of yester-year.

I'll make an analogy: in the 1990's, there were a number of very good historical war epic movies (such as 'Braveheart' and 'Gladiator'). So, the correlation read, "Historical war movie = Good movie". However, Hollywood then began churning out wannabe epics by the dozen ('Troy' and 'Kingdom of Heaven' come to mind, but I hate to cite those two because I liked both of them; a crappy movie would be 'We Were Soldiers') Suddenly, the potency of the equation was diminished. It was then, "Historical war movie = Bleh."

Similarly, when the sabermetric community was looking at OBP in the past, it was linked with good-to-great players. But when teams began to view it as an end unto itself, it was now tied to players whose offensive skills were less valuable independent of their OBP.


2:19 AM Mar 20th
 
tangotiger
If you try to correlate OBP and SLG to Linear Weights or Runs Created per out at the player level, you will end up with coefficients of 1.75 for OBP and 1.00 for SLG (I have a proof at my blog).

If you do it at the team level, you may get different answers. Most notably, the reason is sample size.

The other reason is that the distribution of players at the slugging level may not be as random as distribution of players at the OBP level. And, the key to correlation is VARIANCE. You can have all 30 teams at an OBP of .335 to .337, and guess what? The correlation of OBP to runs scored will be 0.
3:04 PM Nov 13th
 
Richie
So, to sum up for we consumers rather than producers of sabermetrics:

A point of OBP is worth 30% more than a point of SLG (ergo, GM Richie signs that on-base getting free agent rather than that slugging one);

Slugging varies 100% more than on-basing (ergo, now needing to tear apart my squad having GM'ed it into the dumpster, when trading my veteran star I think I'll demand that slugging double-A prospect gets tossed into my return package rather than that on-basing prospect).

Going after the broad truth here. So no niggling after the parenthesized details, which probably aren't worth such anyway.
10:49 AM Nov 13th
 
Trailbzr
There are a bunch of ways to say the same thing. SLG is more variable than OBA (or Batting AVG), because the latter two are probabilities that take values 0 or 1 each occurrence, while slugging can take values 0-4.
In the AL, the range of AVG is .041, OBA is .040, and SLG is .093.
In the NL, the range of AVG is .034, OBA is .037, and SLG is .070.
So if, as Studes says, each OBA point is about 1.3x as valuable as a SLG point, being the top SLG team would still be better than being the top OBA team, because there's twice as much variation in SLG among teams than variation in OBA.

7:21 AM Nov 13th
 
studes
When I run the sort of analysis first posted by Jeff, I have usually found that slugging is more correlated with run scoring than OBP, usually not by a lot (admittedly, I haven't done it in a while).

One of the problems with this sort of analysis, however, is that OBP and SLG are themselves correlated (that's known as multicollinearity). Sluggers get walked more, and slugging teams are walked more often. So it's very hard to say which is more "important." Too much multicollinearity!

As Richie suggests, when looking at this analysis, you're better off looking at the coefficients to determine which is more "important". (that's not an ideal approach either, but it's closer to the truth). I have usually found that the coefficient for OBP is 20% to 40% higher than the coefficient for SLG. I would be very surprised if there are different results for the current run environment.
8:19 PM Nov 12th
 
Richie
Ummm, standard deviation from what??

My best guess as to what you're saying the above indicates is that a), OBP is more valuable than SLG in the sense that, if my team is .01 higher than yours' in OBP but .01 lower in SLG, I'll likely score a couple more runs; b) team differences in SLG are just as or a bit more predictive than OBP differences for forecasting how many runs teams will score.

S'right?
6:33 PM Nov 12th
 
3for3
The import is most noticed when evaluating a player by OPS. When 2 players of the same OPS have different inputs, their values can be misleading based on that one indicator.

Danny


5:59 PM Nov 12th
 
 
©2024 Be Jolly, Inc. All Rights Reserved.|Powered by Sports Info Solutions|Terms & Conditions|Privacy Policy