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Longoria, Percival, and the Rays

By Dave Fleming

May 6, 2009

In the ninth inning of Sunday’s game against the Red Sox, Evan Longoria went into the stands for a foul ball off the bat of Jacoby Ellsbury, only to have a Rays fan snag the ball before it reached Longoria’s outstretched glove.

In the doldrums days when the Tampa Bay team was still association with Satan’s underwater minions, the Trop was something of a second home for the Red Sox, a place where it was common for the crowd to cheer louder for Boston than the local club. So it’s a sign of how much things have changed that the man who snagged the pop-up was wearing a jersey with the name “Longoria” stretched across the shoulders.

Back to the play: Longoria, who is one of the most exciting players in the game, threw a hissy fit about it. He pointed to the fan and yelled about it and clapped his glove. After the game ended, Troy Percival gestured into the stands and screamed an obsenity at the man. Later Longoria expressed his hope that the other fans were “doing their job” by giving the guy holy hell about catching the ball. Even Joe Maddon made comments to the press about how poor the fan’s actions were.

My two cents: Longoria’s actions on the field were boorish and stupid, and his comment afterwards; his snarky innuendo that the guy deserved some kind of tar-and-feather job for trying to catch a foul-ball, was offensive in the extreme. Troy Percival, whose behavior was worse than Longoria, ought to get suspended. And fined. And Joe Maddon should shut the hell up about how fans are supposed to behave at baseball games, and start worrying about how his players are behaving.

As for the play itself: let’s remember that the ball was caught in the second row. This wasn’t some incident where the fan reached over the field of play. Rather: Longoria dived into the stands. It’s a close call: if I’m sitting in that seat and there is a foul ball about to land on my head, I’m not going to wait and see if the fielder is going to protect me. I’m going to catch it.

Look, Rays: you guys had a fine season last year. You have a great young team with exciting players. The future is bright: you have a lot going for you.

But to call out a guy who is wearing your team’s colors, to cuss him out publicly, on national television, isn’t the smartest way to build fan support. It doesn’t make people like you, or want to root for you.

That guy who caught the foul ball, who then had the pleasure of watching Longoria throw a temper-tantrum, who then got to bear the scrutiny of the mob around him, who then got cussed out by the Rays’ reliever after the game was over, who then got called out by the manager…he’s not coming back. He’s not going to buy the box seats in your crummy stadium, he’s not taking his kids to the game, and he’s not going to wear that Rays jersey anymore. He’s done.

And he’s not the only one. A day later the Tampa Bay area blogs and newspapers were littered with fans who are quitting the team because of Sunday’s incident.

You’re not the Cubs. The Cubs will have fans no matter what they do, because they’ve earned it. They’ve been around. They give the people of Chicago some amount of joy mixed in with all that sorrow. They can deal with a ‘Bartman’ episode. You can’t.

Whatever fan-base your team gained last year, whatever following you started to create in Florida, it is a fragile thing, and it can be undone. Not all at once, but quicker than you think. And then we’ll be back to the days where Tropicana is filled with Red Sox fans and Yankee fans.

I watched that game on television. Afterwards I watched to see what Longoria would do. The inning over, the game decided, I was hoping he’d head over to the third base seats and talk to the guy. Joke around. Say something like, “You gave us a scare, but it’s over now and we won.” Shake hands. Laugh it off. Let it go.

He didn’t. Instead he said, “He knew that he was wrong and I think some of the fans were giving him some stuff after. They did their job.” And Troy Percival screamed at the guy, and Maddon went on television to remind us how we damned well ought to behave at ballgames.

There’s that old adage about getting what one deserves. The Rays might want to remember it the next time their stadium fills up with fans rooting for the other team.

Dave Fleming is a writer living in Iowa City. He welcomes comments, questions, and beer-soaked Evan Longoria jerseys here and at dfleming1986@yahoo.com.

COMMENTS (37 Comments, most recent shown first)

Richie
Probably too late to ask this. But has there been any followup in the Tampa area? Any reaction from the front office? The team? The players involved?
12:01 AM May 13th

jollydodger
I don't think you can fault people for making the wrong split-second decision in their leisure time. I understand the players get pissed at anyone and anything that might cause them to lose a game. I think the fan's action was predictable, and the response of the players was, too.
10:52 PM May 12th

taosjohn
LBCjr has it pretty much right.

It is one of the simplest equations in sports: Ball hit by the home team, catch it. Ball hit by the visitors, get out of the way.

When the current rule came in--70's sometime?-- every fan i knew spent a half hour working out the implications, checking with other fans to make sure everybody saw it, and went forth with the equation firmly in mind...

When you've watched a whole lot of games you develop a feel for the flow events-- and while I don't think Denkinger's Blown Call made a bit of difference, I think Bartman changed the entire game. The Cubs did indeed have an obligation not to fall apart, and they failed that obligation-- but the fans had an obligation to minimize the difficulty, and that failure induced the other.

And by the way, Alou absolutely was going to catch that ball. He said what he did because there's no real point in anathemizing Bartman any further, not because he wasn't going to catch it...

8:49 PM May 9th

chuck
LCBjr's point was an excellent one. I've never once seen a player in his home park yell out when approaching the wall to warn the fans to back off. I think they assume that every home fan will naturally cede the play on the ball to him. This is something that players need to understand and to change. They SHOULD be yelling their heads off as they approach the ball and stands.
Being a fan that has gone to an average 2 games a year and only once got my fingertips on a foul ball, catching one and/or retrieving one during a game has always been a strong desire. Anytime a ball has been hit within a 100 feet of me, I know my eyes have not left the ball until it became clear it wasn't close enough to catch. And if I had a six-year old and he/she was at my side, the double instincts to protect the child and to catch the ball would be hard to push aside. However, if I heard my third baseman yelling, "I got it! Stay back! Hands down, folks!", that might be enough to get my attention off the ball.

There are people who, naturally or learned, think outside of themselves, and there are those that don't. This is obvious as one drives around any city. One of the former may be able to shift to their left brain in the few seconds before that ball comes down and stop the instinct to catch it. For the latter, that just won't happen. Fielders that assume every home fan is one of the former need to wake up and realize they need to communicate to the fans that the ball is theirs, even more so than when they're calling off a fellow fielder.

Regarding the 2003 Game Six play, ventboys had the excellent point. Why hasn't Gonzalez been vilified? I can tell you why... Being a Cubs fan, watching that game with the Cubs up 3-0, I never had the feeling: "We got this game." You can't, as a Cubs fan. You're hoping against hope that that Something will not happen to pop the balloon. You're a big ball of tension and hope. So when that play happened, it felt like the Something... an immediate tipping point, regardless of the fact it didn't put anyone on base. It was: “Here we go...” That one of our own could foul up an out at that point in the season was completely deflating. And to see the reactions of the players only confirmed how fragile the team's confidence was that they were going to finally pull it off. Seeing Alou get so upset, and seeing a normally composed Mark Prior yelling, these just cemented my own feeling of dread. Everything that happened next simply felt like a script unfolding, with that play as the catalyst.

I feel no anger towards the guy. What I don't understand about the incident, though, is that he had on earphones and was doubtless listening to the announcer saying: "There's a fly ball, headed over towards the left field stands..Alou may have a play on it..." You would think if you heard that in your ears you would at least take a look down. But if Gonzalez handles his grounder, we would have been in the Series. The team folded that night. I just watched a youtube clip of Bartman being escorted out through the stadium concourse - a sickening to watch. I wonder if there's a day that has passed that he hasn’t thought about it or been reminded of it, or if such a day will ever come for him. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

5:43 PM May 9th

Richie
peds, you mean? Otherwise this might be a bad forum for insulting eggheads.
11:37 AM May 9th

Ron
Dave, I could not agree with you more..... The players and the keepers of the game are falling short when it comes to servicing their customers.. Between the phd's, an inept commissioner and spoiled players, If this attitude continues to spiral downhill, it is a matter of when, not if, a large # of fans find other things to do with their free time
10:55 AM May 9th

MattGoodrich
Wow, do other articles generate this many comments?

I always take a glove to a game, I wear it for every pitch. If a ball comes near me, I'm going to use that glove. Simple self-defense. Fast-moving baseballs do a lot of damage to bones and soft tissue. If I were in the front row (I never am) I wouldn't lean out over the railing, but I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to figure out which way it's going to ricochet off the railing. I'm going to catch it.
2:10 AM May 8th

ventboys
Unbelievable. You guys are so cool, and there was so much mind-sweat and terrific writing on this subject that I am at a loss. This thread should be saved in it's entirety, as a forum on the subject of fan interference, and put into next year's gold mine. By all means, keep it up. It could be a book in and of itself. Amazing, and really impressive.

I don't have much to add, but I do have one thing:

When the Bartman thing happened, the score was 3-0, and it didn't result in anything other than the ball was foul instead of an out. I am pretty sure that any means of analyzing the projected result after the Bartman play would still have the Cubs winning something like 98% of the time. Gonzalez let an inning ending double play ball go through his legs. How did Bartman get dunned for that? How did he get blamed for the Cubbies folding like a barcalounger made of pasta for the next 10 innings?

Any player, or manager, or team, that blames a fan for their failures is setting themselves up to have an excuse for losing. As a fan I always hope that nobody in the home stadium will afect the game in a negative way, but that foul ball that is caught in April is miles more important than the out, in their memories. We forget that the paying customers are... Well.... paying for this.
2:02 AM May 8th

Richie
There are de facto rules and de jure rules. Though I'm not sure which is which, nor that I have de jure right. Could be du jour rules, except everytime there are I end up with potato soup, and I don't like potato soup. So that's a bad rule.

Anyways. The written rules clearly do not DISALLOW fans outside the field of play from going for in-the-stands foul balls. The rules enforced HAVE ALLOWED fans to go for such foul balls, for many many years now. As many fans do, so there's no existing custom or more involved either.

Sean, it has nothing to do with backwards, forwards or sideways. MLB won't make the rule change you want, so you want fans as a whole to adopt it, for you people who think it should be so. OK so far.

And those who don't adopt this new custom which does not yet exist, you think are being jerks. That's not OK. It's kinda bullying, Sean.
12:23 AM May 8th

SeanKates
Clearly not going to convince anyone, but I think everyone is looking at it backwards. There is no rule that says "A ball in the stands is the fan's property, and he has a right to defend it," just that it doesn't belong to the player exclusively.

We should expect people, when not covered by actual rules, to act in a normal human fashion. Or more specifically, in a normal GOOD human fashion. The fan can't punch Longoria when he goes in the stands for a ball because there are other social and legal rules stopping him from doing it. I simply believe that similar social rules exist that should stop you from grabbing the ball away from your own team (although I also believe you shouldn't interfere with the opposing team, there are MORE social restrictions from doing it against your own). The baseball "rule" governing this situation says nothing, other than the player doesn't have an exclusive right. Other rules and mores govern the situation, and to me, this fan broke nearly every single one.

Of course, I think the actual rule is more arbitrary than Dave does, and believe that a rule of "Fans don't touch the ball in the first X rows (where X is the distance a player could possibly hope to catch the ball plus a row or two)" would be much better. People who want to catch a foul ball can sit in any of the hundreds of rows not covered. People interested in watching baseball players control the baseball game can pay the pretty penny to sit closer.
8:29 PM May 7th

chisox
Calling me a bad poet is a disservice to bad poets everywhere.
6:04 PM May 7th

Richie
As a fellow bad poet, I'm sure BillJ is proud. Assuming he reads us yahoos.

Oh, and BillJ is the fellow bad poet. Me, I'm a good one.
5:48 PM May 7th

chisox
Bill James, Bill James on the wall,
who's the purest fan of all?

Won the game but dropped the ball,
Think I'll pick on someone small.

I know the stats I know the rules,
The rest are just a bunch of fools.

4:46 PM May 7th

DaveFleming
I think the official rule is that fans can't go for baseballs on the field of play, but they have the right to go for any ball in the stands.

This is, I think, a very important balance to maintain, as it deliniates a clear, obvious border between fans and players.

Without that border, there is a real danger for player/fan interactions to become confrontational. Conflict occurs when boundries aren't established, when the rules aren't clear. Something like, "You have to give way to pop ups when it's your team that's fielding, and the game is close," is hard to remember. It's weird. It's too ambiguous. Something like: "Players get the field, fans get the stands" is rational, and it enforces the boundries that are already known.

I'm fine with Longoria going into the stands. What I have a problem with is his assumption that he had a right to that ball. I think that's inaccurate. The stands are (and should be) the fans territory. If players start thinking otherwise, if they start going into the stands with the assumption that THEY have the right to that space, we're going to have trouble.
4:31 PM May 7th

Richie
Ummm, I think "not belonging to the player" does mean "belonging to the fan" if the fan gets to it first. BillJ certainly thought so in '86, that I remember. ("the fan had as much right to the ball as Buckner", roughly quoting/recalling)

If MLB decides to change the interference rule to include the stands, fine. Until they do, you're imposing your (currently extralegal - or perhaps extraregulatory) values on foul ball chasers, rather than they on you. Direct your anger at MLB over the issue.
4:25 PM May 7th

chisox
Richie,

1) He doesn't even catch that ball at night when he's sleeping. That's why he finally came clean. In the words of the late great Mayor Harold Washington: "You know it, I know it, everybody else knows it." Let it go.

I can't think of an appropriate way to answer the rest of your post that won't get me kicked-off here forever, but what the heck, I'll give it a go.....There's an old locker room type saying that ends with "....when the wind blows." If you know the first part of that saying then no more needs to be said (I'll see your bile phrasing and raise you a saying/said phrasing).

:-)
4:07 PM May 7th

SeanKates
Rule 3.16 is the right one I think. No interference calls on balls "out of play." Which of course is not the same as saying that it's a free for all. Not belonging to the player does not equal "belong to the fan." This is why it matters whether he was protecting his kid or not. If yes, then fine, his actions are entirely in the realm of play. Just like the player reaching for the ball, he has taken the risk upon himself and should act accordingly. He is not entitled to go out of his way to grab the ball at the expense of his team, his fellow fans and probably the safety of everyone involved. If it makes me elitist or annoying to suggest that people who value their own experience and themselves over everything else (note: thought I was clear that reality tv is only a symptom in this way) are lesser fans, then I am fine with that. To suggest this guy was doing anything other than valuing his experience over everyone else's is insane. As is pitying him.

Excuse the typing errors, if any, this was done on the phone
4:01 PM May 7th

Richie
1) Moises had that ball. It was in the out bank.

2) I would turn down that intern.

3) You saying Monica was hot?!?!?

4) ;-)
3:33 PM May 7th

Richie
Baseball rules are that he has as much right to that ball in the stands as Longoria. At least so it was in 1986. Has that changed since then? (maybe it has)

My bile for irreality television stands second to no man's bile (composing that took some thought). But I don't therefore fit everything into that prism that conceivably can be shoved into it. The guy wasn't exhibiting anything, wasn't calling attention to himself, was just doing what many fans do in that situation. And legally so, unless they changed that rule about foul balls in the stands.
3:29 PM May 7th

chisox
SKates: Who cares if the guy was trying to catch the foul or protect his kid. Or that everyone but him managed to get out of the way. The ball was in the stands, not the field of play. Pervical and Maddon were completely out of line, and Longoria partially out of line. This is getting perilously close to becoming a self righteous, who's the purest fan kind of thing, i.e., "Why only a complete non-sabrmetric cretin would have tried to get that foul ball. NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS WOULD I, the world's best, most knowledgeable fan have gone after that fould ball." Right, and you wouldn't go after a hot intern who shows you her thong and a cigar.

Moises Alou was never, ever going to catch that ball. Ever.

3:28 PM May 7th

SeanKates
God, I love a world where people who willfully spend a ton of money to put their kids in possible harm are then allowed to use the kids as excuses for their ill-considered actions, whether they are "reflexes" or not. Shocking how everyone around the fan (save one, as Dave mentions) managed to get out of the way, but this guy's reflexes and panic made him stand up and attempt to catch a ball...not shield his kid, or move the kid, but to get up and reach in a prone position for the ball...natural reflexes.

I have absolutely no pity for this guy, though I reiterate that Percival's actions were unacceptable.
3:02 PM May 7th

papahans5
- My impression is that Alou has waffled because he feels terrible about what has happened to Bartman since Game 6 and he feels partly responsible (just for stamping his feet) and wants to atone. Last year he was quoted as saying that he didn't think he could have caught it after all -and my clear impression at the time was that he was attempting the Christian thing to do - regardless of the truth. He was attempting to put the thing in perspective and lessen the pressure on the guy. But it wasn't long before he was quoted again admitting that, yeah, he certainly could have caught it.

- I don't blame Alou for waffling. I empathize w/ the awkward position he is in. But I don't doubt for a second that ball was coming down in his glove.

- It is certainly true that if hadn't been Bartman it would have been someone else. That whole section seemed to be reaching for the ball - oblivious to Alou's arrival. This is true all over baseball. Fans ignorantly or selfishly reaching out at balls in play. There have been noted occasions - they all seem to be at Fenway - of fans restraining other fans and holding them out of the way. But these cases are certainly the exception.

- What I can't understand is the tolerance for "innocently" reaching for a ball - as if anyone would do it. It's just not true. If you're in the front row, then you are supposed to know not to reach beyond the invisible plane onto the field. And you certainly must be aware that fielders may have access to balls hit in your row.

- I also don't understand why some of us pretend that a foul ball need necessarily occupy all of our attention. Sure, if it's a line drive or hard hit in any way. But most foul balls are popups. They're up there for a while. All we do is track them, wondering if they might come near. But if you're a baseball fan of any sort, you're used to monitoring more than one thing at a time while the ball is in the air. If it's a fly to the outfield, we all learn to watch the fielder not the ball. We all know to check the runners when the ball is in the air, or when it's caught, or when it lands. It's no different for a foul ball. If the ball's in the air, you steal a glance. Longoria was right in front of the guy.

- One thing I don't understand is why fielders don't warn home fans w/ a loud cry of "Outta the way - I got it!" This actually occurred to me when Longoria was approaching the ball - especially on the replay.

- I also don't buy the business about protecting the kid. (And I have three of them.) If you're at a game, you ought to know not to be reaching down to apply mustard while the ball is being pitched. Especially if you're in the second row. If the ball's coming down - and that's all it was, a foul pop coming down - you check Longoria - and if he's not ther then you protect your kid.

- Finally, one of the weird things about the Bartman play was that the ball was on a sliced trajectory. The ball went out over the 3rd base fans and then slowly curved back to the edge of the fans, the front row, and Alou. A high, long, curving arc. This would make it harder for any fan to steal a glance or check the field. But these were special circumstances. When you're playing baseball - Little League even - you lean and move and break at the crack of the bat - wherever you are on the field. Your first thought is, "Do I have a chance at it?" For any fan (and I'm not a Cub fan, but I was certainly thinking that way), when you're five outs to go from the first Cub W.S. in over 50 years, your only thought when the ball leaves the bat is "Can a Cub catch it?" If you're watching on TV - if you're out on Waveland Ave. - that's your thought. If you're in the stadium that thought is even more palpable. I guarantee you that was the thought of anyone sitting behind home plate or on the first base side. They were all watching Alou. So I still do blame the fans sitting around Bartman. They are baseball Philistines. And efforts to save Bartman from his shameful treatment after the game must be distinguished from the honest judgement that he screwed up. Even if he wasn't alone.
3:00 PM May 7th

chisox
I symapthize with the fans in situations like this--especially in cases where the adult is with a kid. These are rather chaotic situations that most people never find themselves in so to think they should act rationally (whatever that might mean)is asking too much. There seems to be a lot of bold talk from a bunch of one-eyed fat men on this site sometimes, and this strikes me as one of those times.

I can understand, and even perhaps justify, Longoria's reactions as they were in-the-moment;anything he did after the game is inexcusable (and please never use battle or war metaphors when talking about sports issues. It's demeaning to everyone.) Likewise, Percival's and Maddon's after game behavior was inexcusable.

As for managers always defending their players, I think you all need to pay more attention to the White Sox and Ozzie Guillen. He'll defend the players when he thinks they're right, but he'll throw them under the bus when they're not. I think that's one reason why Sox fans like him so much.

Regarding Bartman: the way that was handled will forever be Chicago's shame. I'm a Sox fan who is glad they won a Series before the Flubs. Even so, I saw the play live, and in endless replays. First, blaming Bartman when he was surrounded by other fans doing exactly the same thing is just ridiculous. That was a scrum and he was just the scapegoat patron; it could have been pinned on anyone of the people there. Second, even though I'm a Sox fan I've watched a lot of Cubs games over the years, and don't recall anyone ever coming close to making a play like that in that part of the park, so, to anyone who assumes Alou would have caught that ball, I say Get. A. Life. Third, it was Moises Alou trying to make that catch for goodness sake so it's even more of a stretch to think he would have caught it. Fourth, I can support Alou's in-the- moment reaction because I think he wasn't trying to cause trouble for the fan(s), rather, I think he was trying to get an interference call. The fact that he would never get that call in a million years is irrelevant to what I think he was trying to do.

As I said earlier, what happened to Bartman after that is absolutely shameful. That poor guy still can't go to a game or otherwise show himself in public. So, any of you who are trying to justify similar behavior by players, teams, or other fans, I strongly recommend that you go on retreat and rethink yourselves.
2:01 PM May 7th

alljoeteam
Everyone involved screwed up. The fan, Longoria, Percival, Maddon. They all made a mistake or two.

Now in defense of the fan, he likely didn't even know/think that Longoria was within 100 miles of him. Ty Cobb said: "Baseball is not unlike war." Every man for himself. Also, like war, baseball is characterized by long periods of extreme boredom, interrupted by fleeting moments of shear terror. This fan was sitting in the stands, he sees a pop up coming towards him. He has only one primitive thought in his head: Catch ball. He doesn't have time to think: "Well, my main man Evan is gonna be coming over here trying to catch this thing, but I am in the second row, so it would be one heck of a play." By the time he's thought that, the play is over anyway and it's too late. We need to remember that half of the people in this country have an IQ less than 100.

In defense of Longoria and Percival, he though the could have caught the ball. If he thought he had a real chance of making the play, then he should argue for it. Percival for the same reasons. However, the degree of their reactions were over the top and they should be disciplined by the team. Note: Alou did later admit that he didn't think he could not have caught the Bartman ball...

In defense of Maddon, he is supporting his players. I've coached baseball and soccer and coaches will have a tendency to support their own player through thick and thin. Now he should also address the entire team and go over the issue to try to prevent this sort of hysteria from happening again as the team can't afford it.
1:06 PM May 7th

Richie
I thought the rule was absolutely clear, I believe pointed out by BillJ all the way back in the '86 Abstract with regard to Bill Buckner. If the ball's in the stands, it's the fan's ball just as much as the player's.

What, I'm supposed to let it clunk me in the head? Start clambering over people to get out of the way on any foul ball that might wind up landing in my section?

I'm athletic enough that I'm confident I could've monitored the foul ball and Longoria at the same time, even though they're coming at me from opposite directions. And since I don't care about foul balls (the one I got I scuffed up by playing with it in the stadium parking lot), I would've let Longoria (try to) catch it. But I'm not going to impose that value on others, or expect that level of athleticism from others. I've no doubt that some of you guys in focusing on the ball would have no idea if Longoria's actually there or not.

What if Longoria can't get the ball, and it winds up caroming off the concrete floor and into his 6-year-old son's mouth? The guy was trying to catch the ball and give it to his 6-year-old son, for goodness' sake.

I disagree with but understand Longoria, and even Percival, and even even Maddon. Bill Parcells would've known enough to emphatically point out the facts of the matter to his players, but 99% of coaches and managers stick up for their players no matter what, figuring it's automatically a part of their job.

I do blame the Tampa front office people for this. They should've immediately understood what was going on, and been on it right away.
11:40 AM May 7th

Richie
You're suggesting that Alou's waffling is unjustifiable??? Sounds kind to me. He knows darn well he may have been able to catch that ball. Saying "well, ya can't know for sure" instead takes some pressure off Bartman.
11:17 AM May 7th

DaveFleming
Thanks for the comments, LBCjr. Seriously: thanks.

One of the best things about writing for this site is the overwhelming degree to which people enter into discussions about baseball in rational, intelligent ways. Your comment was rational, thoughtful, and intelligent, and it's not the only one. So: thanks.

You're right that Longoria's initial reaction was appropriate. I was wondering why this whole thing got me so up in arms, and I think it's mostly the stuff that happened afterwards that is grating: it's one thing to get mad in the heat of a moment. It's another thing to not let things go.

As for Bartman...that was a crazy game. From the POV of someone without a rooting interest, as someone without an emotional stake, it's a fascinating game.
11:14 AM May 7th

papahans5
- I saw the game but didn't see or hear any of the post-game comments from Longoria, Percival, or Maddon. If what you say is true, their comments are boorish and imprudent. No question about it.

- But I challenge your description and evaluation of the events as they happened. Longoria made an aggressive, appropriate effort to catch the ball, leaning hard into the second row for a ball coming down. The guy - two guys actually - got in the way. Essentially it was Bartman all over again - albeit it w/ much lesser stakes. I have no truck or sympathy w/ fans - or fans of fans - who merely want to catch a foul ball or "didn't realize the player could make a play." That is untenable. If you're at a baseball game and you want your team to win and the ball is hit in the air, your first though has to be, Can one of my guys catch it? That was true in Chicago (in spades, 5 outs from a World Series). And it's true at the Trop.

- Saying that, I am well aware that there are all kinds of fans w/ all kinds of different reasons for going to the park - in fact the tolerant, grown-up part of me celebrates these fans and all their different reasons for going to the Park. It sure looked like this guy was out to lunch and had no clue that Longoria had a chance at the ball until he bumped into it. I did wonder if the play would affect the game - and when it did not (the Sox did not score again in the inning) - I did hope that Longoria would be able to laugh and joke about it. I am sorry he was not. But that does not excuse fan ignorance - in any park.

- I thought Longoria's reaction at the time was understandable and justified. He hopped up and down once or twice and as he returned to 3rd base you could see his howl of frustration. But he did not point or call out the guy - as if he had interfered w/ a ball actually in the field of play.

- I could review Bartman here but I'll leave off. (The subject gets me hot still - every time - now years later.) What happened to Bartman should not have happened. But what he did should not have happened either. Ever. And Moises Alou's reaction at the time - to stamp his feet in frustration - was completely justifiable. His waffling since about whether he could have caught the ball or not is another matter.

10:59 AM May 7th

evanecurb
I expect boorish behavior from professional athletes. I don't like it; I don't condone it; but I expect it. The sense of entitlement that these guys have is mind boggling. In some sports (The NFL, NASCAR), comments and behavior as exhibited by Percival and Longoria result in suspensions, fines, points deductions, etc. Eventually, after enough suspensions and points deductions, the athletes begin to take their responsibility to behave in a civil manner more seriously. They don't become better people, but they are forced to behave. Kind of like disciplining spoiled children, but it works.
On the other hand, what is Joel Maddon thinking? I thought he was better than that.
10:57 AM May 7th

ThomasQ260
I enjoy your articles.
10:50 AM May 7th

DaveFleming
Well, the Bartman thing was a tad different, right? Didn't he reach over the field of play?

In Fenway they'll kick you if you reach over the field, but they won't if the ball is in the stands, even if it's in the first row. Which seems about right to me.
10:44 AM May 7th

jhpchun
Amen!
8:52 AM May 7th

Steven Goldleaf
But, Dave, the guy (who was not only wearing the team's colors, but actually wearing a Longoria jersey) must have understood pretty well by the ninth inning where exactly he was sitting. Don't you think that fans who sit in the first few rows in general should be saying to their nine-year-old sons, "This is exciting, isn't it, Sparky, to sit so close to the field? That means that we might actually get to affect the game a little bit, maybe, 'cuz we might have a balplayer try to to catch the ball very close to us, maybe even a ball that we could try to catch ourselves. Now, if it's a Rays fielder, of course, we're going to back off, but if it's a Red Sock, like that big gray-haired meanie over there named Mike Lowell, then we can actually try for a pop-up thast he's trying to catch. Isn't this a fun place to sit?" You make it seem like the notion of sitting in a front row seat was information that this poor guy had to assimiliate while the ball was in the air.
7:59 AM May 7th

DaveFleming
Interesting comments, Sean. I'd just ask: aren't you supposing too much intent here? I have a similar disregard for our self-focused culture, but there's a difference between spontaneous action and willful action.

A willfully selfish act is buying a Hummer. People buy Hummers because they think Hummers are 'safe,' but that 'safety' extends only to whoever is riding in the Hummer. Every other person on the road is made less safe.

A fan catching a foul ball is a selfish act, but it's a spontaneously selfish act: the guy who caught the ball was not, I'm sure, thinking about much beyond the fact that there was a foul ball heading his way. He almost certainly wasn't trying to make himself 'a story.'

And: the 'rules' on catching a foul ball are confusing. If it's in the stands, you are supposed to be selfish, because there's gonna be a lot of hands around you. But if the foul is near the field, you're expected to suddenly be unselfish. It's a tough thing to remember in the heat of the moment.

But I've taken up too much of the stage. What do other folks think?
7:58 PM May 6th

SeanKates
I think that Percival's cursing of the man (who I believe was with his 6 year old) was especially regrettable, but as part of my long run against people who simply don't know their place, reality television, blogs built for the wrong reason and people who simply value themselves over everyone else in the room, I can't abide by the man's action.

People go to baseball games to see baseball players attempt to make baseball plays. They don't go to watch some other fan distract the players, or interfere with the regular run of play. While not an excessively easy play, the ball was catchable by Longoria. It would have infuriated me (and countless other fans) to be in the stadium and watch a man, ostensibly a fellow Rays fan, interfere with that.

The point is: EVERYONE ELSE matters too. Interfering with your own team's success to grab a foul ball is a selfish act, and while not as open as cursing the man out, or a fellow fan's berating of him, it's just as detrimental to the fan experience.

It's probable that no one is going to boycott the Rays because of some other fan's malfeasance, and it's possible that more than the cursed-at man will boycott the Rays because of the unseemly reaction by the players, but here's the thing: I'd much rather go to a game of a team that wins and CARES ABOUT WINNING, with a strictly controlled crowd of 30K than to go to a game of a team who brushes these things off, accepts that "fans will be fans" and gets 35K.

The Rays run a business, and for them, it's probably unacceptable to have the face of their young franchise marginalize a guy who bought what I expect are fairly expensive tickets. However, if I'm Friedman, or some other front office guy, I like that players both young and old on my team care enough about an early season game to react this way. And I'm not missing the guy who wanted to make himself the story in front of the rest of my fans.
6:46 PM May 6th

Longoria, Percival, and the Rays

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