We have the following team:
|
2000’s
|
C
|
Jorge Posada
|
1B
|
Albert Pujols
|
2B
|
Jeff Kent
|
3B
|
Alex Rodriguez
|
SS
|
Derek Jeter
|
LF
|
Barry Bonds
|
CF
|
Carlos Beltran
|
RF
|
Ichiro Suzuki
|
DH
|
David Ortiz
|
With Joe Mauer, Todd Helton, Chase Utley, Chipper Jones, Miguel Tejada, Manny Ramirez, Jim Edmonds, Vladimir Guerrero, and Jim Thome waiting in the wings.
Sidebar question: how does this offense compare against other ‘decade teams’?
In 2000, Dave Pease and Greg Spira at Baseball Prospectus did a poll of their readers to determine a Team of the Decade for the 1990’s.
|
1990's
|
C
|
Mike Piazza
|
1B
|
Mark McGwire
|
2B
|
Roberto Alomar
|
3B
|
Matt Williams
|
SS
|
Barry Larkin
|
LF
|
Barry Bonds
|
CF
|
Ken Griffey, Jr.
|
RF
|
Tony Gwynn
|
DH
|
Edgar Martinez
|
That’s a good list. I might take Craig Biggio over Roberto Alomar, and Jeff Bagwell or Frank Thomas over Mark McGwire. Tony Gwynn over Larry Walker was extremely close when they figured it: they used weighted ballots, and I think the difference was two points between them. I don’t know that I’d take Gwynn over Walker myself, but it’s close either way. We’ll keep the results as they have it.
Let’s compare the 1990 team with the 2000 one:
|
2000's
|
1990's
|
Edge
|
C
|
Jorge Posada
|
Mike Piazza
|
1990's
|
1B
|
Albert Pujols
|
Mark McGwire
|
2000's
|
2B
|
Jeff Kent
|
Roberto Alomar
|
1990's
|
3B
|
Alex Rodriguez
|
Matt Williams
|
2000's
|
SS
|
Derek Jeter
|
Barry Larkin
|
1990's
|
LF
|
Barry Bonds
|
Barry Bonds
|
1990's
|
CF
|
Carlos Beltran
|
Ken Griffey, Jr.
|
1990's
|
RF
|
Ichiro Suzuki
|
Tony Gwynn
|
2000's
|
DH
|
David Ortiz
|
Edgar Martinez
|
1990's
|
The edge at catcher is obvious: even with his atrocious fielding, I’ll take the Triple Crown threat behind the dish.
At first base we have a choice between Cardinal first basemen. Bagwell finished second in the BP poll; Frank Thomas third. Pujols takes on all comers, though.
Second goes to Alomar, again without any real debate. Third goes to A-Rod. I’d take Larkin over Jeter: I like the shortstop who can field the position.
Left, I’ll take the 1990’s Bonds over the 2000’s version. Better fielder, better runner, gifted hitter. Bonds had eight seasons of 30+ Win Shares during the 1990’s, and most of them were closer to 40 than 30.
Center goes to Griffey over Beltran. It’s nice how the two singles hitters show up next to each other in right field. I’ll take Ichiro over Gwynn (defense, speed). I’ll begrudgingly give the nod to Edger over Papi at designated hitter.
The 1990’s win six of nine positions on the diamond. Our boys don’t quite hold up to the previous decade.
How about the 1980’s? This is a team I made up on the fly.
Here’s a question: where the hell do you put Robin Yount? Yount played 639 games at shortstop, 623 games in center field. He also played 69 games in left field, bumping his outfield total over his shortstop total.
I guess it depends on who you want on the team more, Cal Ripken or Dale Murphy. Another shortstop, or a center fielder? I’ll go with the thumper this time. Putting Yount at shortstop:
|
1980's
|
|
C
|
Gary Carter
|
More games, higher OPS+ than Fisk.
|
1B
|
Eddie Murray
|
Played in 400 more games than Mattingly.
|
2B
|
Ryne Sandberg
|
Over Whittaker: better glove, speed.
|
3B
|
Mike Schmidt
|
More games than Brett or Boggs that decade.
|
SS
|
Robin Yount
|
More offense than Ripken, Smith.
|
LF
|
Rickey Henderson
|
Over Tim Raines.
|
CF
|
Dale Murphy
|
Two MVP's. Yount was better.
|
RF
|
Dwight Evans
|
53 points edge in on-base pct. over Andre Dawson.
|
DH
|
Brian Downing
|
Closest competition is Reggie Jackson.
|
That’s as good as I could do, without getting bogged down too much. I tried to list the alternative, the B-Team of the decade.
Anyway, the 2000’s do better against their opponents in the electronic age, going 4-5 in the position battles. Better, but still not ahead.
|
2000's
|
1980's
|
Edge
|
C
|
Jorge Posada
|
Gary Carter
|
1980's
|
1B
|
Albert Pujols
|
Eddie Murray
|
2000's
|
2B
|
Jeff Kent
|
Ryne Sandberg
|
1980's
|
3B
|
Alex Rodriguez
|
Mike Schmidt
|
1980's
|
SS
|
Derek Jeter
|
Robin Yount
|
1980's
|
LF
|
Barry Bonds
|
Rickey Henderson
|
2000's
|
CF
|
Carlos Beltran
|
Dale Murphy
|
1980's
|
RF
|
Ichiro Suzuki
|
Dwight Evans
|
2000's
|
DH
|
David Ortiz
|
Brian Downing
|
2000's
|
One quick and dirty way to see which ‘Decade Team’ is the best, is to rank the players at each position, putting them on a First Team, Second Team, and Third Team. Then, check out how the decades are represented on each of those teams:
|
First Team
|
Second Team
|
Third Team
|
C
|
Mike Piazza (1990)
|
Gary Carter (1980)
|
Jorge Posada (2000)
|
1B
|
Albert Pujols (2000)
|
Eddie Murray (1980)
|
Mark McGwire (1990)
|
2B
|
Roberto Alomar (1990)
|
Ryne Sandberg (1980)
|
Jeff Kent (2000)
|
3B
|
Mike Schmidt (1980)
|
Alex Rodriguez (2000)
|
Matt Williams (1990)
|
SS
|
Robin Yount (1980)
|
Barry Larkin (1990)
|
Derek Jeter (2000)
|
LF
|
Barry Bonds (1990)
|
Rickey Henderson (1980)
|
Barry Bonds (2000)
|
CF
|
Ken Griffey, Jr. (1990)
|
Dale Murphy (1980)
|
Carlos Beltran (2000)
|
RF
|
Ichiro Suzuki (2000)
|
Tony Gwynn (1990)
|
Dwight Evans (1980)
|
DH
|
Edgar Martinez (1990)
|
David Ortiz (2000)
|
Brian Downing (1980)
|
I think that’s about right….Piazza ahead of Carter, Carter ahead of Posada. I’m not 100% sure that Gwynn rates ahead of Dwight Evans, but we don’t need to rock the boat here.
Anyway, the 1990 team looks like the strongest of the lot, as they have five of the nine players on the First Team, and two more on the Second Team. Our recent bunch does the worst: five of the players on the 2000 Decade Team (Posada, Kent, Jeter, Bonds, and Beltran) are third-stringers when it comes to the Three-Decade Team. We can put it in graph form:
First Team
|
Second Team
|
Third Team
|
2000: 2
|
2000: 2
|
2000: 5
|
1990: 5
|
1990: 2
|
1990: 2
|
1980: 2
|
1980: 5
|
1980: 2
|
Sidebar: Ch-ch-changes
Looking at Decade Teams reveals how the ethnic makeup of major league players have shifted over the years:
|
1980's
|
1990's
|
2000's
|
C
|
Gary Carter
|
Mike Piazza
|
Jorge Posada
|
1B
|
Eddie Murray
|
Mark McGwire
|
Albert Pujols
|
2B
|
Ryne Sandberg
|
Roberto Alomar
|
Jeff Kent
|
3B
|
Mike Schmidt
|
Matt Williams
|
Alex Rodriguez
|
SS
|
Robin Yount
|
Barry Larkin
|
Derek Jeter
|
LF
|
Rickey Henderson
|
Barry Bonds
|
Barry Bonds
|
CF
|
Dale Murphy
|
Ken Griffey, Jr.
|
Carlos Beltran
|
RF
|
Dwight Evans
|
Tony Gwynn
|
Ichiro Suzuki
|
DH
|
Brian Downing
|
Edgar Martinez
|
David Ortiz
|
The 1980’s team is predominantly white: you have Carter, Sandberg, Schmidt, Yount, Murphy, Evans, and Downing: seven white guys, four with fantastic 80’s ‘staches. The other two are black players, Murray and Henderson.
Most of the backup are white: Fisk at catcher, Mattingly at first, Brett or Boggs at third, Ripken at shortstop. A couple black players are on the reserve team: Dawson, Reggie Jackson, Tim Raines, Lou Whittaker. Ozzie Smith, if you want him over Ripken.
In the 1990’s, things get a little more interesting up: you still have a few white guys - McGwire and Piazza and Williams - but there are two Latino players added to the mix, (Alomar and Martinez), and four black players (Larkin, Bonds, Griffey, and Gwynn). It’s a more diverse team than the previous decade, certainly. Edgar Martinez was raised in Puerto Rico, but only Robbie Alomar was born in a foreign country (Puerto Rico). If you go with Walker over Gwynn, that’d get you two foreign-born players.
In the 2000’s, the team goes completely global: more than half the players on the team were born in a foreign country: Posada (Puerto Rico), Ortiz (Dominican Republic), Ichiro (Japan), Beltran (Puerto Rico), and Pujols (Dominican Republic). You only have one holdover of the 80’s moustache (Kent).
Just something I noticed, is all: baseball has been trending towards a more international group of players for fifty years now, and the All-Decade teams reflect that trend.
Wrapping It Up
This was just a fun little exercise, a slight diversion before I get to the pitchers and manager. I thought it would be short, but it wound up being a tad longer than I imagined it would be.
The 2000 Decade Team did poorly against the 1990 and 1980 team. One reason for their poor showing might be the fact that we haven’t seen the full story of how their careers will pan out.
We don’t know, for instance, how Posada’s career will end, and how his numbers will stack up against the likes Gary Carter or Carlton Fisk. Same with Carlos Beltran: is he going to put together eight more great season and wind up a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer, or will his career sort of sputter out? Will he be remembered as a great player, or just a good one?
Suzuki and Gwynn: I ranked Ichiro ahead of Gwynn, which might strike some as presumptuous, Gwynn being a Hall-of-Famer and Ichiro still on the bubble in the minds of some folks. Frankly, I think Ichiro’s a better version of Gwynn: a better hitter, a better runner, and a better fielder. It might take awhile for the general public to catch on to that perception, but I think it’s accurate.
All that said, the 2000 Decade Team is weak, frankly. Jeff Kent: I don’t think Kent compares to Whittaker or Grich or Sandberg or Alomar, and when all is said and done I don’t think he quite compares to Utley, either. He’s not a top-ten second baseman…he just got lucky on the years. Posada is supremely underrated, but he’s also not a great catcher: he’s not Fisk or Piazza or Rodriguez or Joe Mauer. He was just the best of a bum decade. And the shortstop: Jeter doesn’t match with Alomar or Yount or Ozzie or Ripken. As a hitter, maybe, but shortstop is the most important position on the diamond, and he’s awful at it. On a turf field in the 1970’s or 1980’s, he’d cost a team 30 runs a season. That matters.
It’s a weak team so far. Maybe the pitching will even things out.
Dave Fleming is a writer living in Iowa City, Iowa. He welcomes comments, questions, and suggestions here and at dfleming1986@yahoo.com.