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Greinke, Felix, Lincecum, Carpenter

November 24, 2009

(Look, Ma, No Spread Sheets!)

 

            The Cy Young contests this year, to judge from my mailbag, seemed to occasion more than the usual amount of discussion.   “I'm probably not the first person who's asked this question since Greinke's award was announced,” asked Rob T. on November 17—actually he was the first person to ask it—“but do you think it's a slight "victory" for yourself and every other sabermetrician? I honestly thought CC was going to get it. But maybe at least the writers are starting to get it...”

            “Let's hope.,” I responded.   “By now, I've declared victory more often than Casanova. . ..”.   Which was a lousy answer; I was in smart-ass mode rather than thoughtful mode.   The thoughtful answer is that we should resist invitations to personalize the discussion, even when the invitations come in attractive envelopes.  It’s not about “my side” of the argument and “your side”; it’s about what’s true.   We’ll close in on the truth more quickly if we resist projecting personalities into the discussion.

            Jumping out of sequence, here’s another one:

 

Bryan Burwell wrote in today's St. Louis Post Dispatch that "What was my greatest fear in the past is now upon us. Armed with their "advanced metrics" and clutching their spread sheets, the new-age baseball voters have officially taken over the sport both in the front offices and behind the scenes."
Asked by: The Pope of
Chili Town

Really?   Your greatest fear?   Because you know, honestly, I think I could find bigger things for you to be afraid of.   Spiders, serial murderers, terrorists, global warming, venereal disease. . .pick your poison; I’m sure you can do better than this.

            Again, this is personalizing the debate, but I don’t think Mr. Burwell has mixed feelings about it.   Burwell, writing for a St. Louis audience, is trying to smear sabermetrics by saying, in essence, that we were responsible for taking the award away from St. Louis pitchers.   Setting aside the position that it may be better not to personalize the debate, is that even what happened?   Isn’t what happened here more like two St. Louis pitchers split the vote and allowed the San Francisco pitcher to win it?

            Maybe, but there was something else going on that I didn’t know at the time.   Will Carroll voted.    According to Carroll (November 16, Baseball Prospectus), “Later on in awards season, I'll touch on the other award I had a vote for, and explain my selections and criticize the picks if you want, but in a year where the BBWAA opened up its voting to members they knew might think a little different, I have to feel like it's a step forward. Now about those Gold Gloves...”

            Ooooooooooh.    Oh, I had missed that entirely; I didn’t realize the BBWAA had granted us the vote.   Sabermetric suffrage has arrived.   Susan B. Anthony and me, we’re tight.   Now I understand what Burwell was raving about.  

            Matthew Namee weighed in, more with a comment than a question. 

 

More a comment than a question: Some people are obviously upset that two writers left Carpenter off of their NL Cy Young ballots, thus allegedly depriving him of the award. He only threw 192.2 innings, though. Excluding strike years, the fewest innings pitched by a Cy Young-winning starter was Sutcliffe in '84 (150.1 IP, but before that he was in the AL, and his total was 244.2). Nobody else won with fewer than 213 innings (Pedro in '99). In other words, had Carpenter won, he would have had, by far, the fewest innings pitched of any Cy Young starter, by a wide margin.

 

            I’m not sure that I get the logic for excluding Sutcliffe there.   Sutcliffe won the National League Award while pitching only 150 innings in the National League.  Doesn’t that pretty well cover Carpenter winning the award while pitching only 193 innings?   Rcberlo also commented on that:

 

What I've read about the NL Cy Young vote seems to indicate that the decision between Lincecum and Carpenter hinged mainly on the value of Lincecum's 30 "extra" innings. Does it make sense to estimate that value by looking at who occupied Carpenter's slot in the rotation when he was gone and, in effect, add 30 innings worth of that pitcher's record to Carpenter's stats?
Asked by: rcberlo

            Which doesn’t quite make sense, to me, because isn’t that saying that if the guy who filled in for Carpenter when Carpenter was out was good, then Carpenter deserves the award, but if the guy who filled in for him was lousy, then Carpenter shouldn’t get the award?

            I’m not sure I buy the theory that Lincecum’s extra innings are the deciding factor here.   I think I might stick with the explanation that two St. Louis players split the vote and allowed the San Francisco guy to win—exactly like the American League MVP Award in 1954, when two Cleveland Indians split the vote (Larry Doby and Bobby Avila), and allowed a Yankee to win, or 1965, when two Dodgers split the vote and allowed Willie Mays to win, or the Cy Young vote in 1970, when three Baltimore Orioles split twelve first-place votes and allowed a Minnesota Twin to win with six.   Et cetera.

            Ventboys, on November 19:

 

To amplify on the Cy Young voting, I found it encouraging that CC finished 4th, behind Felix and Verlander. Up here in the northwest we are celebrating Felix' 2nd place finish like he won. We weren't sure that the writers had heard of him. Wilbon and Kornheiser couldn't even name the teams that the two Rookies of the Year played on.

 

            I was even getting questions from non-subscribers:

 

A question from Cy Morong, who isn't a subscriber: On page 448 of the new Handbook, you have both Greinke and Hernandez with 26 win shares. How did they come out equal when most other evaluations give Greinke a substantial advantage? For instance, Fangraphs has Greinke with 9.4 wins above replacement, when Hernandez has only 6.9.
Asked by: Cy's messenger
Answered:
November 19, 2009

            OK, setting aside the reader comment and getting to the issue itself.  ..I have long been a huge fan of Zack Greinke.   When he first came to the Royals in 2004 he was twenty years old, but he was a lot of fun to watch.   At that time he was one of those pitchers, like Sabathia and El Duque and Randy Johnson and Lincecum and Tiant and Fernando Valenzuela, who was instantly recognizable as something different, something outside the ordinary.   He took an epic detour between then and 2008, as has been well documented, but when I returned to the Kansas City area in late summer 2008 I saw him pitch three or four times, and I was just blown away.   He’s a very different pitcher now than he was in 2004.   He has morphed from a guy who makes pitching look interesting to a guy who makes it look easy.   I’ve never seen anybody have so many easy innings.   I told everybody who would listen a year ago that Greinke was as good a pitcher as anybody in baseball.

            Greinke, in important ways, saved the season for Royals fans.   He enabled Royals fans to go to the game every fifth day and forget that the team stunk on the other four days.    Four days in five, being a Royals fan might be painful, but when Greinke took the mound, they were more than the equal of whoever it was they were facing.   We got drunk every weekend on ZG power.

            But having said that, I still don’t see that the contest between Greinke and Felix Hernandez is a mismatch, and I was surprised that Greinke dominated the voting the way that he did.   Yes, Greinke was sensational, but so was Felix.    It seemed to me that both Greinke and Felix were well above the median standard of a modern Cy Young pitcher, and I really wouldn’t have been upset if Hernandez had won.

            The first two things I look at are the pitcher’s Season Score, and his Win Shares.   These are the Season Scores for the top American League pitchers this year:

 

Rank

First

Last

Team

Score

1

Felix

Hernandez

Mariners

299

2

Zack

Greinke

Royals

283

3

Roy

Halladay

Toronto Blue Jays

255

4

Justin

Verlander

Tigers

245

5

C.C.

Sabathia

Yankees

236

6

Mariano

Rivera

Yankees

232

7

Joe

Nathan

Twins

230

8

Andrew

Bailey

Oakland A's

206

9

Josh

Beckett

Red Sox

202

10

Jonathan

Papelbon

Red Sox

201

11

Jon

Lester

Red Sox

199

 

            Had to go to eleven to get Jon Lester in there.   And here are the top Season Scores in the National League:

 

Rank

First

Last

Team

Score

1

Adam

Wainwright

Cardinals

281

2

Chris

Carpenter

Cardinals

276

3

Tim

Lincecum

Giants

263

4

Javier

Vazquez

Braves

228

5

Josh

Johnson

Marlins

223

6

Matt

Cain

Giants

215

7

Jonathan

Broxton

Dodgers

215

8

Dan

Haren

Diamondbacks

214

9

Jair

Jurrjens

Braves

208

10

Heath

Bell

Padres

207

11

Ryan

Franklin

Cardinals

205

 

            The second thing I looked at was Win Shares.   These are the 2009 Win Shares for the top Cy Young contenders:

 

Zack Greinke

26

Tim Lincecum

22

Felix Hernandez

26

 

 

 

 

Adam Wainwright

21

Roy Halladay

21

Chris Carpenter

21

Justin Verlander

21

 

 

 

 

Dan Haren

20

C. C. Sabathia

18

Matt Cain

20

 

 

 

 

Jon Lester

17

Ubaldo Jimenez

19

Edwin Jackson

17

Josh Johnson

19

Jered Weaver

17

 

 

Andrew Bailey

17

Jair Jurrjens

17

Josh Beckett

16

Javier Vazquez

16

Mark Buehrle

16

Wandy Rodriguez

16

John Danks

16

Jonathan Broxton

16

Joe Nathan

16

 

 

David Aardsma

16

 

 

 

            Season Scores are just a method of making simple comparisons of what the value appears to be, rather than what it really is, and Win Shares are not a way of comparing two seasons, but rather, a system of very carefully comparing groups of players or groups of seasons such as careers.   What these systems do is not resolve the Cy Young or MVP debate, but rather, make it apparent who the leading contenders are.

Very often these systems make it apparent that there is only one serious contender for an award—the Cy Young Award in the American League in 2008, for example, when Cliff Lee outdistanced the field by 57 points in the Season Score.    The Season Score predicts the Cy Young voting a high percentage of the time, but it doesn’t prove anything, and isn’t intended to.

2009 is not one of those years when these two systems will end the debate.  What these systems do in 2009 is make it apparent who the serious candidates are—Greinke and Hernandez in the American League, Wainwright, Carpenter and Lincecum in the National.   Which, of course, we knew anyway; we’re spinning our wheels here. 

            Sometime this summer I introduced the Strike Zone won-lost record, which is a way of stating a pitcher’s strikeouts and walks as if they were wins and losses.   These are the top strike zone winning percentages of 2009. ..”KS” stands for “Strike Zone Wins” and “KL” for “Strike Zone Losses:”

 

First

Last

Team

Lg

G

W

L

 

KS

KL

KWPct

Mariano

Rivera

Yankees

AL

66

3

3

 

5

2

.748

Roy

Halladay

Toronto Blue Jays

AL

32

17

10

 

15

5

.746

Dan

Wheeler

Rays

AL

69

4

5

 

3

1

.712

Kevin

Slowey

Twins

AL

16

10

3

 

5

2

.712

Zack

Greinke

Royals

AL

33

16

8

 

18

8

.701

Mike

Wuertz

Oakland A's

AL

74

6

1

 

7

3

.686

Matt

Thornton

White Sox

AL

70

6

3

 

6

3

.682

Joakim

Soria

Royals

AL

47

3

2

 

5

2

.680

Alfredo

Aceves

Yankees

AL

43

10

1

 

5

2

.680

Justin

Verlander

Tigers

AL

35

19

9

 

20

9

.678

Joe

Nathan

Twins

AL

70

2

2

 

6

3

.666

Koji

Uehara

Orioles

AL

12

2

4

 

3

2

.664

Andrew

Bailey

Oakland A's

AL

68

6

3

 

7

4

.652

Carl

Pavano

Twins

AL

33

14

12

 

11

6

.650

Brandon

League

Toronto Blue Jays

AL

67

3

6

 

6

3

.641

Josh

Beckett

Red Sox

AL

32

17

6

 

14

8

.641

Jon

Lester

Red Sox

AL

32

15

8

 

16

9

.634

Jason

Frasor

Toronto Blue Jays

AL

61

7

3

 

4

2

.633

Phil

Hughes

Yankees

AL

51

8

3

 

7

4

.628

Russ

Springer

Rays

AL

74

1

4

 

4

3

.627

Scott

Baker

Twins

AL

33

15

9

 

12

7

.625

Brett

Anderson

Oakland A's

AL

30

11

11

 

11

7

.622

Jake

Peavy

White Sox

AL

16

9

6

 

8

5

.615

James

Shields

Rays

AL

33

11

12

 

12

8

.613

Jonathan

Papelbon

Red Sox

AL

66

1

1

 

6

4

.610

Darren

O'Day

Rangers

AL

68

2

1

 

4

3

.606

Freddy

Garcia

White Sox

AL

9

3

4

 

3

2

.603

Bobby

Jenks

White Sox

AL

52

3

4

 

4

2

.602

Felix

Hernandez

Mariners

AL

34

19

5

 

16

10

.601

 

            Greinke’s strike zone won-lost record is 18-8, a little better than his actual record of 16-8, and Hernandez’ strike zone won-lost record is 16-10, which is significantly worse than his actual record of 19-5. 

            Of course, again, a great pitcher doesn’t have to have a great strikeout to walk ratio; it merely often happens that he does.   95% of Cy Young Award winners have strike zone winning percentages over .500-but there are other elements to the game.  I am always amazed at how many pitchers have about the same strike zone won-lost record as actual won-lost record.   These are the National League leaders:

 

First

Last

Team

Lg

G

W

L

 

KS

KL

KWpct

Chad

Qualls

Diamondbacks

NL

51

2

2

 

3

1

.761

Dan

Haren

Diamondbacks

NL

33

14

10

 

16

5

.744

Javier

Vazquez

Braves

NL

32

15

10

 

17

6

.728

Huston

Street

Rockies

NL

64

4

1

 

5

2

.728

Ricky

Nolasco

Marlins

NL

31

13

9

 

14

6

.687

Cliff

Lee

Phillies

NL

34

14

13

 

13

6

.676

Ted

Lilly

Cubs

NL

27

12

9

 

11

5

.675

John

Smoltz

Cardinals

NL

15

3

8

 

5

3

.668

Edward

Mujica

Padres

NL

67

3

5

 

5

3

.665

Jonathan

Broxton

Dodgers

NL

73

7

2

 

8

4

.661

Cole

Hamels

Phillies

NL

32

10

11

 

12

6

.660

Joel

Pineiro

Cardinals

NL

32

15

12

 

7

4

.659

Tim

Lincecum

Giants

NL

32

15

7

 

18

10

.656

Chris

Carpenter

Cardinals

NL

28

17

4

 

10

5

.653

Rafael

Soriano

Braves

NL

77

1

6

 

7

4

.652

Hiroki

Kuroda

Dodgers

NL

21

8

7

 

6

3

.643

Ryan

Madson

Phillies

NL

79

5

5

 

5

3

.637

Trevor

Hoffman

Brewers

NL

55

3

2

 

3

2

.630

Aaron

Harang

Reds

NL

26

6

14

 

10

6

.621

Josh

Johnson

Marlins

NL

33

15

5

 

13

8

.620

Heath

Bell

Padres

NL

68

6

4

 

6

3

.620

Roy

Oswalt

Houston Astros

NL

30

8

6

 

10

6

.620

Pedro

Feliciano

Mets

NL

88

6

4

 

4

3

.619

Adam

Wainwright

Cardinals

NL

34

19

8

 

15

9

.614

Mark

DiFelice

Brewers

NL

59

4

1

 

3

2

.613

Johan

Santana

Mets

NL

25

13

9

 

10

7

.611

Jordan

Zimmermann

Nationals

NL

16

3

5

 

6

4

.611

Jason

Hammel

Rockies

NL

34

10

8

 

9

6

.611

Todd

Coffey

Brewers

NL

78

4

4

 

5

3

.606

Brian

Wilson

Giants

NL

68

5

6

 

6

4

.604

Wandy

Rodriguez

Houston Astros

NL

33

14

12

 

14

9

.603

Matt

Daley

Rockies

NL

57

1

1

 

4

3

.602

Rafael

Betancourt

Rockies

NL

61

4

3

 

4

3

.602

 

            I think the data for Cliff Lee and John Smoltz there includes the data from both leagues.    At this point in the analysis I understand something about the Cardinals that I didn’t previously understand.   Throughout history there have been several teams that, working in a pitcher’s park, were able to make good finesse-type pitchers appear to be as dominant as power pitchers.  The Orioles of the 1960s/1970s are the classic team of this type, but there have been others:  the Oakland A’s of the 1970s and 1980s, the Dodgers of the 1970s and 1980s, the Mets with Koosman and Seaver, the Reds of 1939/1940, the Milwaukee Braves of the late 1950s, and others.   If you work in a pitcher’s park and you don’t walk anybody and you have a good offense behind you, you’re likely to have a winning record and a low ERA.   You’re going to look a lot better than you really are.   The situation favors a finesse pitcher. 

            The Cardinals, I now understand, have become one of those teams that makes low strikeout/low walk pitchers look better than they really are.    Wainwright, Carpenter, Pineiro—these guys are all low strikeout/low walk pitchers.   It’s not that they’re not good; it’s just that they’re not as good as their records look.   I didn’t get that a half-hour ago.  

Stripping those charts down to the relevant contenders:

 

First

Last

Team

Lg

G

W

L

 

KS

KL

KWpct

Zack

Greinke

Royals

AL

33

16

8

 

18

8

.701

Justin

Verlander

Tigers

AL

35

19

9

 

20

9

.678

Felix

Hernandez

Mariners

AL

34

19

5

 

16

10

.601

 

           

First

Last

Team

Lg

G

W

L

 

KS

KL

KWpct

Tim

Lincecum

Giants

NL

32

15

7

 

18

10

.656

Chris

Carpenter

Cardinals

NL

28

17

4

 

10

5

.653

Adam

Wainwright

Cardinals

NL

34

19

8

 

15

9

.614

 

            This still is not how we find the deserving Cy Young winners; it is merely another thing that is worth looking at.   Probably 70% of a pitcher’s value is centered in the strikeout and walk categories.   Looking at that 70%, Greinke and Lincecum are ahead.

            Starting now along the path toward an actual answer, let us begin with Runs Saved.   Greinke pitched 229.1 innings with an ERA 2.29 runs better than the league average (2.16 versus 4.45).  That makes him 58 runs better than an average pitcher.   Felix pitched 238.2 innings with an ERA 1.96 runs better than the league average.    That makes him 52 runs better than an average pitcher.   Advantage, Greinke.

            This, however, is without making park adjustments.   Kauffman Stadium was re-modeled between 2007 and 2009, and is, in essence, a new park.    The new park played in 2009 as the best hitter’s park in the American League.  The Royals scored and allowed 805 runs in Kauffman Stadium, 723 on the road.   Adjusting for that, Greinke is not 58 runs better than an average pitcher, but 64 runs better.

            Puget Sound Park in Seattle had a park effect of .95—a pitcher’s park.  Adjusting for that, Hernandez is not 52 runs better than average, but 49 runs better.   Greinke is now ahead, 64 to 49. 

            OK, Greinke is well ahead now, and I’m happy that Greinke won, and nobody seems to be too unhappy about it, so let’s set that one aside for now and concentrate on the National League race. In the National League without park effects, Lincecum in 42 runs better than the league average, Carpenter 41 runs better, and Wainwright 40 runs better.

            Departing from this point, one can construct a sabermetric argument that Carpenter is the best pitcher in the league.   Lincecum leads Carpenter by a razor-thin margin, but this is without considering:

 

1)  Un-earned runs,

2)  Pitcher’s hitting, and

3)  Efficient use of the runs.

 

            Carpenter gave up 48 earned runs, but gave up only one un-earned run.   Lincecum gave up 61 earned runs, plus seven un-earned runs.  Much analytical thinking proceeds from the assumption that only earned runs are relevant, but clearly this is untrue.    The first un-earned run that Lincecum gave up came about when Juan Pierre was on first for the Dodgers, and Lincecum tried to pick him off.   Lincecum threw the ball away—E-1—putting Pierre on third base.

            I won’t argue about it being an “earned” as opposed to “un-earned” run—but it is clearly and absolutely a run for which Lincecum is responsible.    Even setting that aside, it seems to me more reasonable to hold a pitcher 50% responsible for un-earned runs, rather than to say that he is totally absolved of responsibility for any run that is tainted by fielding malfeasance.   So let’s hold Lincecum totally responsible for the Juan Pierre run and hold the pitchers 50% responsible for other un-earned runs.    Carpenter goes from 1 run behind to 2 and a half ahead:

 

Lincecum

 

ERA versus average

42

Juan Pierre run

-1

Other un-earned runs

-3

New total

38

 

 

Carpenter

 

ERA versus average

41

Un-earned run

-0.5

New total

40.5

 

            Next, let’s consider the pitcher’s own contributions to the offense.   Runs created formulas don’t work well when the totals get close to zero; what works better there is just to assume that every four bases is a run and every seven outs are a negative run.   Lincecum, with a .386 OPS, had 11 total bases and 6 walks, contributed 17 bases with 57 outs, not counting sacrifice hits and flies, which are sort of “justified outs”.    Carpenter, with a .482 OPS, had 17 total bases, 2 walks and a hit by pitch, 20 bases contributed with 53 outs.   Figuring 4 bases is a run, that’s ¾ of a run for Carpenter plus 4/7 of a run for having fewer outs; Carpenter gains another 1.3 runs:

 

Lincecum

 

Old total

38

Batting plus

4.25

Batting minus

8.14

New total

34.1

 

 

Carpenter

 

Old total

40.5

Batting plus

5

Batting minus

7.57

New total

37.9

 

            Carpenter is now ahead by almost four runs. 

But this now gets Wainwright back into the discussion; Wainwright was the best hitter of the three.   Wainwright hit 5 doubles, a triple and 2 homers.  His total bases plus hits are 30, with 73 outs.    Going back a step to include him, he also allowed 7 un-earned runs:

 

Wainwright

 

ERA versus average

40

Un-earned runs

-3.5

Batting plus

7.5

Batting minus

-10.4

New total

33.6

 

            But we haven’t yet dealt with “efficient use of the runs”.    Stating the traditionalists argument in its best form, Carpenter had, among these three pitchers, both the best winning percentage (.810) and the best ERA (2.24).   Carpenter was 17-4, 2 and a half games better than

Lincecum.  This has usually been enough, in the history of Cy Young voting, to sway the decision.   If you have the best record and the best ERA, you win; end of discussion.   One can look at strikeouts and walks, but, as we showed earlier, Lincecum doesn’t really have better strikeout and walk data than Carpenter; he merely has more strikeouts.   Lincecum’s strike zone winning percentage is .656; Carpenter’s is .653.  It’s not a meaningful difference.

            The bottom line is winning.   Look at it this way:  the Cardinals scored 125 runs in Carpenter’s 28 starts—4.45 runs per start—and Carpenter was 17-4.   The Giants scored 146 runs in Lincecum’s 32 starts—4.56 per start--yet Lincecum was “just” 15-7.  The Cardinals scored 125 runs in Carpenter’s starts, and won 18 games.   That’s one win for each 6.94 runs.   The Giants scored 146 runs in Lincecum’s starts, and won 19 games.   That’s one win for each 7.68 runs.  Carpenter simply made more efficient use of his runs. 

            At this point, however, the pro-Carpenter argument begins to collapse.    There are four issues here we haven’t fully examined:

 

1)  Park Effects,

2)  Durability,

3)  Quality of Competition,

4)  Systematic as opposed to testimonial study of “Run efficiency”

 

            I carefully dodged the park effects data before I departed on the pro-Carpenter argument, because if I hadn’t, there’s no pro-Carpenter argument.   Busch Stadium is a pitcher’s park, with a 2009 Park Effect of .919.   Willie Mays Park in San Francisco is a hitter’s park, with a 2009 Park Effect of 1.052.   If you adjust for that, Lincecum isn’t 42 runs better than average, he’s 45 runs better than average, and Carpenter isn’t 41 runs better than average, he’s 38 runs better than average.   The difference between them isn’t one run, it’s 7 runs.

            It’s seven runs versus an average pitcher, but value does not consist of being better than average; it consists of being better than replacement level.   No one can say exactly what the replacement level is, but let’s say the replacement level is a pitcher 35% worse than the league average (an ERA about 5.66 in the National League, 6.01 in the American League, without park adjustments.)

            If you compare the pitcher to a replacement level pitcher, Lincecum’s advantage over Carpenter isn’t 45-38, it’s 83-68.   The advantage for Lincecum grows because, pitching 30 additional innings, he is taking a innings away from a bad pitcher, which is the real situation that baseball teams face.   When your quality pitchers go out, the guys you have to put on the mound are usually pretty awful.  You don’t win too many of those games.

            Then let’s look at the issue of quality of competition.   Chris Carpenter made 28 starts in 2009.   Eighteen of those starts were against teams with losing records.   Carpenter started only 3 times against teams with 90 or more wins.   Lincecum started 11 times against teams with 90 or more wins.   That’s looks like huge difference, although, as we’ll see in a moment, it really isn’t.  Carpenter had only three starts all year in which it was a fair fight.   Lincecum had 11.    Let’s chart it:

 

 

Carpenter

Lincecum

90 Win Teams

3

11

Winning Teams

10

16

Losing Teams

18

16

90 Loss Teams

7

7

 

            The aggregate won-lost record of the 28 teams that Carpenter faced was 2193-2341, a .484 winning percentage.   The aggregate won-lost record of Lincecum’s opponents was 2603-2579, a .502 percentage. 

            Let’s see. . .an average National League team this year allowed 4.49 runs per game.   To cause an 18-point difference (.018) in winning percentage would require almost exactly one-sixth of a run per game.   Assuming 24 games—216 innings--that’s 4 runs.   To offset his disadvantage in facing tougher competition, we need to credit Lincecum with an additional four runs.

            Four runs isn’t a huge difference, but. . .it’s a difference.  Lincecum was ahead 83-68; he’s now ahead about 87-68.    You can give Carpenter a run for being a better hitter, three or four runs for the un-earned runs. . .it doesn’t matter as much if Lincecum starts out 19 runs ahead. 

            Carpenter’s defense collapses completely when we take a more systematic look at the issue of Run Efficiency.   The Cardinals with Carpenter got one Win for each 6.94 runs versus one Win for each 7.68 with Lincecum, true, but you know what that is?  That’s just the Park Effect again—the Park Effect, combined with the fact that Carpenter was a little bit more effective per inning pitched.    When you have fewer runs, each run has more impact in the win column, independent of the issue of run/win efficiency.  A better way to look at the issue of run/win efficiency is to look at the runs scored, runs allowed and won-lost record in the pitcher’s starts, which can be found in our system under Statistics/Team Profiles/Performance by Starting Pitcher.

            In Carpenter’s starts this year the Cardinals scored 125 runs, allowed 68 runs, and finished 18-10.    If you score 125 runs and 68 runs, what should your winning percentage be?  Sabermetrics 101; it’s .772.   (In Sabermetrics 413 you’ll learn that it’s actually not .772, but more like .750, but let’s keep it simple; Burwell might be listening at the door.)   At 18-10, their actual winning percentage in these games was .643. 

            Far from being efficient in his use of runs, Chris Carpenter was actually one of the most in-efficient pitchers in the major leagues, by this method.   He was short by 3.6 wins, making him the sixth most inefficient pitcher in the majors. 

            This doesn’t help Lincecum a lot; Lincecum was short by 2.6 wins as well.   The Giants winning percentage in Lincecum’s starts should have been .676 but was actually .592.   This doesn’t help Lincecum a lot, but he doesn’t need the help.  At this point in the analysis it is Carpenter who is grasping at straws, and this particular straw isn’t going to hold him up.

            That isn’t a perfect analysis, either; the run/win efficiency method that I just outlined has three serious problems:

            1)  That it treats runs scored after the pitcher has left the game the same as runs scored while he was in the game,

            2)  That it treats offensive support of 11-1-1 in three games the same as offensive support of 4-5-4, when in reality they are very different,

            3)  That is uses the Pythagorean approach in a very low-run context, where the Pythagorean method becomes less accurate.

            One never gets perfect answers.   I have been doing post-award analysis like this for 30 years, actually more than 30 years.   The analysis that we can do now is much, much more sophisticated and more accurate than the analysis that we could do 30 years ago, but we are no closer to perfect methods now than we were then.   We have introduced many more factors into the analysis, and much more available data.   These new benefits give us better answers—but they also expose flaws in the old reasoning, requiring us to think more deeply about some of the issues.   There is no end to it.

            There is no end to the argument, but I am now satisfied that, at the end of the argument, Lincecum is still going to be ahead.   Tim Lincecum won the award; Tim Lincecum deserved the award.   I am satisfied that that is true.

 

            Let’s go back now to Greinke versus Felix, and look at some of the same issues.   Hitting. . .we can skip that; American league hitters don’t hit very often.   Greinke had a double and Felix didn’t, but we’ll skip it.

            Greinke allowed 9 un-earned runs, Felix allowed 15.   Holding the pitcher 50% responsible for those, that gives Greinke an additional 3-run edge, which puts him ahead by 18 runs, a probably impossible advantage for Felix to overcome.

            To get to durability, let’s back up and look at runs vs. replacement pitcher, rather than runs versus average.   Greinke was 106 runs better than a replacement-level pitcher; Hernandez was 89 runs better—but remember, each run has less impact as more runs are scored.   Greinke was pitching in a hitter’s park; Hernandez, a pitcher’s park.   If you normalize for that, the advantage isn’t 106-89, but 101-92.  It’s close.

            Then we look at run/win efficiency. . ..you remember, Chris Carpenter was minus 3.6, Lincecum minus 2.6.    Felix Hernandez was +2.3.    Greinke was minus 1.6.  Let me chart the data:

 

Hernandez

 

 

Runs Scored:

150

 

Runs Allowed:

106

 

Expected Winning Percentage:

0.667

 

Expected Wins

22.7

 

Actual Wins

25

(25-9)

Net Gain through efficiency:

2.3

 

 

 

 

Greinke

 

 

Runs Scored:

123

 

Runs Allowed:

108

 

Expected Winning Percentage:

0.565

 

Expected Wins

18.6

 

Actual Wins

17

(17-16)

Net Gain through efficiency:

Negative 1.6

 

 

            Putting this in plain English:   The Mariners were 25-9 with Hernandez on the mound.   The Royals were 17-16 with Greinke—and the difference cannot be fully explained by run support.   There is something else going on.   

            There’s a problem with that method, as I said before; Greinke’s bullpen was awful, and we can’t hold him personally accountable for that.   On the other hand, if we did hold him personally responsible for all of it, a difference of 3.9 wins is a difference of roughly 39 runs.   Hernandez would vault far ahead in the overall analysis.

            Then we get to the issue of Quality of Competition. . .quality of the opposition, whatever you want to call it.   Hernandez started 22 times against teams with winning records.   Greinke started 15 times.  Let’s do the chart that we did before, with Lincecum and Carpenter:

 

 

Greinke

Hernandez

90 Win Teams

3

7

Winning Teams

15

22

Losing Teams

18

12

90 Loss Teams

9

5

 

            The 33 teams faced by Greinke had an aggregate record of 2599-2733, a .487 winning percentage.    The 34 teams faced by Hernandez had an aggregate record of 2840-2674, a .515 percentage.   Greinke had an advantage of .028 (winning percentage), based simply on facing weaker opposition.

            Stating that as runs. . .to offset an advantage of .028 winning percentage, at the level of offense in the American League in 2009, requires about .275 runs per game.   Given that they each pitched about 26 full games (234 innings), it’s a difference of about 7 runs.  

 

            Well. ..I’m not here to argue that Greinke didn’t deserve the award.   Greinke very much deserved the award, very richly deserved the award.   But whether he was actually better than Felix Hernandez. . .I don’ t know.    It comes down to the issue of how much weight is given to the differences in run/win efficiency, and our methods on that specific issue are crude and un-convincing.  

            But here’s what I would say.   In the National League, the vote was split three ways, it was a very close vote, and it’s been a controversial vote.   In the American League Greinke won easily, and this vote has been uncontroversial, and this vote has been celebrated by the analytical community as a victory for reason and logic.

            But actually it seems pretty clear to me, under the most careful analysis that I can do, that Lincecum was the best pitcher in the National League and deserved the award—whereas in the American League, under the most careful analysis that I can do, it is unclear to me whether Greinke or Hernandez is more deserving.  They are both very deserving, but I can’t say which is more deserving.   Ask me again in another 30 years, I’ll have a better answer for you.

 
 

COMMENTS (16 Comments, most recent shown first)

cderosa
Hi, I'm late to the discussion but if anyone is still checking in, let me ask you a question. I tried to use opponents' batting stats, the team plus/minus, and the park factors to try to figure out what replacement-level pitchers would have done with Greinke and Hernandez's innings. This line of inquiry is basically Bill's creation, if I'm not mistaken, and I first became aware of it in the Clemens/Mattingly piece from the '87 Abstract.

I came up with Greinke saving the Royals about 90 runs, and Hernandez saving the M's about 55. My understanding is that the creators of Wins Above Replacement (WAR) are trying to do the same thing but with different databases (and leverage thrown in too). But they came up with a similar result, Greinke dominating the race.

Now my question is this: if you are a fan of WAR, do you believe that if Greinke had pitched for the M's, he'd have had like a 1.60 ERA and the Royal King Felix would have had like a 3.30 (i.e. Greinke actually pitched much better than Hernandez)? Or do you think that these guys blow away so many hitters that they just don't rely on their fielders like the replacement-level pitchers would, and therefore switching them would not really affect their performance that much (i.e., two similar performances are of distinctly different value because of their contexts)?

I kind of suspect there is more of the latter than the former in the spread between the two pitchers, but I have no firm feeling about this. Just curious as to how others see it.


7:51 PM Nov 30th
 
ventboys
I got off on a tangent. Bill, you mentioned me in the article. I want to be clear on this. I picked Zach to win the Cy Young in the preseason, and I rode his butt to titles in both of my fantasy leagues, one of which carried your name. I was tickled, thrilled and not one bit surprised that he won the Cy Young. He deserved it, in my opinion. Felix was terrific, and he had an argument, but I was watching all year and I never once felt that my home town kid was better than Zach. There isn't a pitcher in the league that is more fun to watch than he is.
4:41 AM Nov 27th
 
ventboys
I can appreciate that you were not offended, Jud, but am very aware I was offensive and way out of line. I have this horrible habit of thinking that I am clever and funny. Sometimes I am, sometimes I am just a jerk. I never know which one I will be, so I am thankful that you took it the right way. I work on it every day, but it's an uphill battle. The Dilbert thing is literally true, I was on that tangent. It certainly wasn't meant to be any kind of personal thing. Thank you for understanding.

I do like the concepts that both of those acronyms express. I use the McCracken theory a lot, and it's been hugely helpful to me in projecting upside (and downside) in young pitchers. WAR might be more limited, but it's also useful.

I tend towards the idea that everything counts, so I am not going to be warm to any single metric. That isn't to say that those metrics aren't useful. Guitar players hate capo bars, because they think that using them is lazy, but the real truth is that using a capo can be useful, because it eliminates the need to use 20% of your available fingers to set the bar. This allows you to play a "song" in any key and still use open strings. Metrics, to me, don't tell the story, but they do give us a "bar" to work freely with.

I am not saying that right, but maybe someone else gets it?
4:32 AM Nov 27th
 
bjames
Well, but I DID make a "wins above replacement level" analysis; I didn't use the term.
12:34 AM Nov 27th
 
nettles9
I wasn't offended. I was just making a general comment, that's all. No problem. I'm very difficult to offend so I'm cool and groovy.
10:25 AM Nov 26th
 
yadelman
I see that I was misunderstood by a few people (including Bill!) so I really must not have been clear. In the past few years stats based upon Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP)and Wins Above Replacement (WAR), have become a big part of baseball analysis. It has even hit the mainstream media and the players themselves - I'm referring to Greinke's recent comments. I admit to being surprised that Bill did not mention this at all in the AL Cy Young breakdown. I honestly wanted to understand how much credence Bill gives to these stats. I do remember a quote from Bill that Voros McCracken's analysis as to the inability of pitchers to control balls-in-play "is more correct than incorrect". So I wondered whether the omission of these stats here was deliberate and had to do with problems that he sees in using them for analysis.
Sorry for offending anyone.

7:18 AM Nov 26th
 
nettles9
The idea in not using acronyms is that you want to have the analysis as accessible as possible to anyone and everyone who has even the slightest interest in the subject. Throwing around acronyms and relying on one metric/statistic is not in the best interest of acceptance. I always admired Mr. James' work because it wasn't only about looking at one thing or beginning with an answer and working backwards to support it but taking a question or a statement and finding if it was true, and using more than one way to find that truth. I don't think one should rely on just one number or stat or piece of information. What you see with your eyes on the field as well as the results after the players come off the field should be considered. Every piece of information should be considered because it strengthens the truth.
7:41 PM Nov 25th
 
jeffsol
Bill, interesting look as always. What are your thoughts about the impact of defense? If I am reading your analysis correctly, it seems like you are assigning full responsibility of runs to the pitcher. I suspect that the reaosn some of the analyses come out with Greinke well above Felix is that Hernandez was backerd by an outstanding defense (DER of .712) while KC's defense was pretty lousy (.675 DER). Any thoughts on how the defense behind the pitchers might impact your analysis?
5:44 PM Nov 25th
 
hotstatrat
Thank you, Bill, for another terrific article - as usual. However, one comment you made left me thinking, "huh?".

The logic of excluding Sutcliffe's 150 inning National League total makes sense to me considering his total for the year was 244.2. I don't believe there is any stipulation that the Cy Young Award must be confined only to the statistics amassed in the league itself. He simply was considered the league's most valuable pitcher. Looking at it another way, the voters evidently did not feel it would be fair to penalize Sutcliffe for having spent the early part of the season in the other league. Who could disagree with that? Further, Sutcliffe's 150 innings were not spread across the entire season as were Carpenter's 190. Sutcliffe was able to pitch as well as he did while pitching the work load of a workhorse. Matthew Namee was completely logical to exclude Sutcliffe assuming the logic was self-evident.
4:48 PM Nov 25th
 
bjames
I don't use acronyms at all. I'll use acronyms like ERA and RBI, which are universally understood and thus function as words, and of course you have to use acronyms in chart headings, but I almost never use acronyms for my own analytical terms or anyone else's. I don't believe in it, and I would encourage others not to use them, either. I think it limits the number of people who understand what you're saying, and thus limits your ability to talk to people outside the circle of those who are obsessed with the subject material.

12:33 PM Nov 25th
 
rtallia
How nice to be quoted by the master himself, in the first paragraph even. Even though he really didn't address my point (not that I expected him to) that, if it was 2002 or 1997, CC Sabathia would have won the Cy Young with his 19 wins and World-Series-winning team. I didn't really expect him to pat himself on the back; just wanted to do it for him.
9:42 AM Nov 25th
 
ventboys
I apologize in advance, I have been reading Dilbert in my car while I am waiting for the kid to get out of gymnastics. I blame that whole post on ISO 9000.
3:53 AM Nov 25th
 
ventboys
Oh, Bill, and why didn't you use BLEET and SHEEP? I don't know what they stand for, but they are valid acronyms. How dare you not use them?

Sorry Jud. Your acronyms are probably very good. It just tickled me that you are telling Bill what formulas to use. I honestly wasn't trying to say bleet and sheep, that just kinda came out. I thought about changing it, but what the heck, if I change it to SIC and DUM it just gets worse.

Nobody embraced anyone, and to make this about some sabr agenda over finding the truth seems kind of SIC and DUM, and something that a BLEETing SHEEP would do. Bill looked much further into the truth of the issue than any single formula can, and he has been doing it for over 30 years in print.

It sounds shoe licking for me to say it, but there would be no WAR, or FIP, or VORP, or BABIP, or any of those cutsy arcronyms, if Bill didn't publish his stuff against the grain of established dogma 3 decades ago. Because of this, I tend to assume that Bill knows what he is doing, and what acronyms that he wants to study.
3:48 AM Nov 25th
 
yadelman
I notice that the acronyms of WAR and FIP do not appear at all in your analysis. Does that mean that you do not believe in their validity? According to Fangraphs, Greinke has a 9.4 WAR while Hernandez has 6.9. This of course is the reason that the sabemetric community embraced the choice of Greinke.
1:56 AM Nov 25th
 
bjames
I had the word "finesse" in there AFTER the Seaver/Koosman comment, then I stuck it in before as well. It's confusing. Neither Seaver nor Koosman was a finesse pitcher, but the Mets were like these other teams in that, because of the park and the defense, they made pitchers look better than they were.
4:15 PM Nov 24th
 
benhurwitz
About the Mets, were you saying that Seaver was a finesse-type pitcher, or are you saying that Koosman, the finesse-type pitcher, appeared to be as dominant as Seaver, the power pitcher?
10:50 AM Nov 24th
 
 
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