Without further delay, this is my list of the 25 greatest teams of all time, based on the method explained here yesterday:
Rank
|
YEAR
|
City
|
Team
|
Total
|
1
|
1998
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
853
|
2
|
1937
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
848
|
3
|
1939
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
845
|
4
|
1938
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
844
|
5
|
1995
|
Atlanta
|
Braves
|
840
|
6
|
1975
|
Cincinnati
|
Reds
|
835
|
7
|
1997
|
Atlanta
|
Braves
|
835
|
8
|
1999
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
830
|
9
|
1907
|
Chicago
|
Cubs
|
822
|
10
|
1941
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
815
|
11
|
1953
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
815
|
12
|
1996
|
Atlanta
|
Braves
|
814
|
13
|
1930
|
Philadelphia
|
A's
|
812
|
14
|
1908
|
Chicago
|
Cubs
|
811
|
15
|
1996
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
811
|
16
|
2000
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
811
|
17
|
1929
|
Philadelphia
|
A's
|
810
|
18
|
1970
|
Baltimore
|
Orioles
|
810
|
19
|
1936
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
808
|
20
|
1976
|
Cincinnati
|
Reds
|
807
|
21
|
1952
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
806
|
22
|
1944
|
St. Louis
|
Cardinals
|
804
|
23
|
1951
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
804
|
24
|
1998
|
Atlanta
|
Braves
|
803
|
25
|
1950
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
798
|
If the 1957 Kansas City A’s had been the greatest team of all time, obviously the 1956 and 1958 Kansas City A’s would be in there somewhere as well, so there is a logic in presenting the list in this form. It is rather unsatisfying, however, to see what are in essence the same teams listed over and over, so let’s reduce that problem by making a rule that once a team has appeared on this list, that franchise cannot appear again within a three-year period; in other words, since the 1998 Yankees are the number one team, no other Yankee team from 1995 to 2001 will be shown on the list. If we make that rule, this is our list of the 30 greatest teams of all time:
Rank
|
YEAR
|
City
|
Team
|
Lg
|
Total
|
Key Players
|
1
|
1998
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
AL
|
853
|
Jeter, Mariano, Posada, Pettitte
|
2
|
1937
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
AL
|
848
|
Gehrig, DiMaggio, Ruffing, Dickey
|
3
|
1995
|
Atlanta
|
Braves
|
NL
|
840
|
Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, Chipper
|
4
|
1975
|
Cincinnati
|
Reds
|
NL
|
835
|
Morgan, Rose, Bench, Perez
|
5
|
1907
|
Chicago
|
Cubs
|
NL
|
822
|
Tinker, Evers, Chance, Mordecai
|
6
|
1941
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
AL
|
815
|
It’s just another God Damned Yankee Team
|
7
|
1953
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
AL
|
815
|
Mantle, Berra, Ford, Billy Martin
|
8
|
1930
|
Philadelphia
|
A's
|
AL
|
812
|
Foxx, Grove, Simmons, Cochrane
|
9
|
1970
|
Baltimore
|
Orioles
|
AL
|
810
|
Brooks and Frank, Boog, Pancakes
|
10
|
1944
|
St. Louis
|
Cardinals
|
NL
|
804
|
Musial, Marion, the Cooper Brothers
|
11
|
1932
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
AL
|
797
|
Ruth, Gehrig, Lazzeri, Gomez
|
12
|
2003
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
AL
|
794
|
Jeter, Mariano, Clemens, Mussina
|
13
|
1949
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
AL
|
792
|
Casey Stengel’s Magic Year; Rizzuto and Joe Page
|
14
|
1978
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
AL
|
792
|
Reggie, Munson, Guidry, Goose
|
15
|
1999
|
Atlanta
|
Braves
|
NL
|
790
|
Maddux, Glavine, Chipper, Andruw
|
16
|
1973
|
Oakland
|
A's
|
AL
|
786
|
The Moustache Gang
|
17
|
1986
|
New York
|
Mets
|
NL
|
783
|
Keith, Doc, Darryl, Gary Carter
|
18
|
1911
|
Philadelphia
|
A's
|
AL
|
772
|
Million Dollar Infield, Coombs, Plank
|
19
|
1927
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
AL
|
770
|
Ruth, Gehrig, Lazzeri, Combs
|
20
|
1961
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
AL
|
768
|
M & M boys, Ford, Arroyo, Elston
|
21
|
2009
|
New York
|
Yankees
|
AL
|
767
|
ARod, Moose, Jeter, Mariano
|
22
|
1953
|
Brooklyn
|
Dodgers
|
NL
|
766
|
The Boys of Summer
|
23
|
2004
|
Boston
|
Red Sox
|
AL
|
766
|
Manny, David, Pedro, Curt
|
24
|
1995
|
Cleveland
|
Indians
|
AL
|
760
|
Belle, Manny, Vizquel, Lofton
|
25
|
2004
|
St. Louis
|
Cardinals
|
NL
|
758
|
Albert, Edmonds, Rolen, Carpenter
|
26
|
1887
|
St. Louis
|
Cardinals
|
AA
|
745
|
Comiskey, Carothers, Latham, Silver King
|
27
|
1902
|
Pittsburgh
|
Pirates
|
NL
|
743
|
Honus, Ginger, Clarke, Chesbro
|
28
|
1954
|
Cleveland
|
Indians
|
AL
|
742
|
Wynn, Lemon, Rosen, Doby
|
29
|
2007
|
Boston
|
Red Sox
|
AL
|
742
|
Pedroia, Lowell, Beckett, David
|
30
|
1896
|
Baltimore
|
Orioles
|
NL
|
737
|
Wee Willie, Eee-Yah, Kelley and Wilbert
|
A brief Q & A with myself about this list:
Q. Setting aside the math, do you really believe that the 1998 Yankees should be recognized as the greatest team of all time?
A. Yes.
Q. The 2003 Marlins, who won the World Series, are not on the list; the 2003 Yankees, who lost the series, are. How can that be?
A. The top 11 teams all won the World Series, I think. Twenty-two of the top 30 won the World Series, and three of the other eight were teams from the era before the World Series started. Winning the World Series is terribly important—but the better team doesn’t always win the series, do they?
Q. The 1944 Cardinals are in the top 10, although they were playing a war-time schedule. Don’t you think this suggests that the war-time penalty should have been larger?
That could be, or it could be the opposite: the people discount the team too much because of the war. The team had Musial, Marty Marion, Walker Cooper, Harry Brecheen, Max Lanier and other stars. They were very successful over a period of years, winning the World Series in 1942, when most of the stars were still in the game, and 1946, when the war was over. I think that team needs to be represented on the list. You can represent them by 1942 or 1946 if you think that’s better.
Q. You listed the 1930 Philadelphia A’s. The team that is usually listed is the 1929 A’s. Why is that?
A. They just came out ahead, 812 to 810. You could list either one there; it doesn’t matter. Both teams won the series.
Q. Are you disappointed that none of the 1970s Royals made the list?
A. Extremely.
Q. The 1973 A’s, with Catfish, Reggie, Bando and Vida Blue, rank only 16th on the list although they won three straight World Series.
A. It was a great team, but anyone can look at that team and see that there are issues there. Even in 1973, the best year of the three on the charts, the team didn’t have a .300 hitter, didn’t have anybody who scored 100 runs. In the three championship seasons they had won-lost records that you’re lucky to get into the playoffs with—93 wins, 94 wins, 90 wins. They get a lot of credit for those three straight World Championships, but it doesn’t mean that we ignore everything else.
Q. You have said repeatedly that you don’t believe the 1961 Yankees are a great team, but here they are, 20th on the list.
A. You don’t do research to back up what you already know. You do research to see things better.
Q. You have said many times that the greatest 19th century team was the Boston team of the mid-1890s, and also that the Beaneaters were better than the more famous Baltimore Orioles of that era. Why didn’t that team make the list?
A. The St. Louis team ranks higher in six of the eight areas. One of the two exceptions is the time-line difference, which is trivial. I didn’t figure Teams-on-Paper scores for any 19th century teams, essentially because I am unwilling to consider any 19th century team as a serious contender for the greatest ever. If I had figured those, that might have reduced the margin between the two, but St. Louis is so far ahead that it’s unlikely that the Beaneaters could catch up by winning one category. You live and learn. You study and learn. I’ll look at the those teams again.
Q. Do you accept that the 2009 Yankees were actually better than either of the Red Sox teams that won?
A. Definitely not. For one thing, the measured difference is trivial, 767 to 766. The method’s not nearly good enough for that to be a meaningful difference. For another, not all of the markers are in yet. The 2009 Yankees had a very impressive roster, because Jeter and Mariano and Mussina and some other guys on that team had been around a long time before 2009. But by the time Beckett and Lester and Papelbon and Pedroia and Ellsbury have had full careers. . well, I don’t want to get ahead of myself. But this is 2011, and they’re all still playing very well.
OK, the third thing we should deal with here is the worst teams ever.
According to this method, the two worst teams of all time were two teams that I have said very specifically before could be the two worst teams of all time—the 1886 Kansas City Cowboys of the National League, and the 1884 Kansas City Unions of the Union Association. These two teams not only had horrific records, but did so in leagues of very low quality. The 1886 team actually didn’t finish last; they were two games out of last. But the Washington team for some reason out-scores them in our evaluation—and the Washington team is the fifth-worst team ever.
Rank
|
YEAR
|
City
|
Team
|
Lg
|
Total
|
10
|
1890
|
Brooklyn
|
Gladiators
|
AA
|
107
|
9
|
1884
|
Wilmington
|
Quicksteps
|
UA
|
106
|
8
|
1878
|
Milwaukee
|
Cream Citys
|
NL
|
104
|
7
|
1883
|
Philadelphia
|
Phillies
|
NL
|
101
|
6
|
1884
|
Indiana
|
Hoosiers
|
AA
|
97
|
5
|
1886
|
Washington
|
Statesmen
|
NL
|
96
|
4
|
1876
|
Cincinnati
|
Red Stockings
|
NL
|
90
|
3
|
1884
|
Washington
|
Nationals
|
AA
|
90
|
2
|
1884
|
Kansas City
|
Unions
|
UA
|
87
|
1
|
1886
|
Kansas City
|
Cowboys
|
NL
|
86
|
The worst team since 1890 was the 1941 Philadelphia Phillies. The next worst was the 1942 Phillies. They lost 220 games over the two seasons, going 43-111 and 42-109. Behind them, the worst team of the 20th century was the 1962 Mets.
These are the worst teams by decades. Remember, this method prefers teams that sustain incompetence over a period of years, rather than teams that just have a really bad season.
1870s 1876 Cincinnati Red Stockings (National League)
1880s 1886 Kansas City Cowboys (National League)
1890s 1890 Brooklyn Gladiators (American Association)
1900s 1904 Washington Senators (American League)
1910s 1919 Philadelphia Athletics (American League)
1920s 1927 Boston Red Sox (American League)
1930s 1938 Philadelphia Phillies (National League)
1940s 1941 Philadelphia Phillies (National League)
1950s 1952 Pittsburgh Pirates (National League)
1960s 1962 Mets (National League)
1970s 1977 Toronto Blue Jays (American League)
1980s 1980 Seattle Mariners (American League)
1990s 1998 Tampa Bay Devil Rays (American League)
2000s 2002 Tampa Bay Devil Rays (American League)
Thanks for reading. I should be on Colbert tonight; see you all there.
Bill