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Crossing Positions

December 8, 2008

            In one of the profiles in the Stats section of the Bill James Online, we rank players in specific skills.   Marcus (Scoot Scoot) Scutaro, for example, ranks low in power among all players—at the 20th percentile—but in the middle of the pack among shortstops, at the 46th percentile.    Todd Helton ranks low in speed—21st percentile among all players—but in the middle of the pack among first basemen (47th percentile).  

            One of the skills assessed is Fielding; Orlando Hudson ranks at the 92nd percentile among second basemen in terms of fielding, but where does that rank among all players?  There appears to be no obvious way to answer the question.   Who ranks first—a shortstop who is at the 41st pecentile among shortstops, or a third baseman who is at the 99th percentile among third basemen?    How do we approach that question?

            That is the purpose of this article—to propose a methodology to answer that question.  

            The first question we have to ask is “How many runs are ‘saved’ by the players at each position?”   If we knew that shortstops save 50 runs a year and third basemen save 35 runs a year, then a third baseman who was +8 runs would rank ahead of a shortstop who was –8:

 

            Crappy shortstop          50 – 8 = 42

            Good third baseman     35 + 8 = 43

 

            The problem is, we don’t know what the base is.   We don’t know how many runs are being “saved” by each position. 

            Well, how many runs are being “saved” overall?

            If we assume that offense and defense are the same thing, merely seen from a different perspective, then it must be true that Runs Saved equal Runs Scored, right?   Therefore, if an average major league team scores 769 runs per season—which is the average over the years 2005-2007—then an average team must also SAVE 769 runs per season.  

            Of those runs, some are “saved” by the pitchers, and some are saved by the fielders (and some, of course, are Saved by the Bell.)   How do we split them?

            It is apparent for various reasons that I don’t want to get into right now that the lion’s share of these Runs Saved must be attributable to pitchers.    What exactly the percentage is I don’t know and don’t believe that you know, but the Runs Saved by pitchers must be somewhere between 2/3 and ¾ of all Runs Saved.    Let us assume, for the purpose of moving toward an answer, that 72% of Runs Saved are saved by pitchers, and 28% by fielders.  

            If Runs Saved equal Runs Scored and 72% of Runs Saved are saved by pitchers, then that leaves 215.432 runs to be “saved” by fielders at the other eight positions.   Let’s call it 216, since

            a) there is a certain amount of guesswork involved here, and

            b) 216 is a much easier number to work with than 215.432. 

 

            How, then, do we allocate these 216 runs to each of the eight defensive positions?

            We can do that by assuming that the defensive differences are equal to the offensive differences.    Let us assume that the an average major league team’s catchers create 70 runs per season—which is the actual average of all major league teams over the three seasons, 2005-2007—and that an average major league team’s first basemen create 99 runs per season (which they have.)    Let us assume that the number of outs made by the first basemen is the same as the number of outs made by the catchers (which it is, basically—466 outs by the first basemen, 463 by the catchers.) 

            If catchers create 70 runs per season and first basemen create 99, then either

            a)  first basemen are better players than catchers, or

            b)  catchers must be “saving” 29 more runs a year than first basemen.

            By simply choosing option (b), we can figure out how many runs to attribute to each fielding position, as a base.   These are the Runs Created by the players at each position, 2005-2007 (thank you, Retrosheet):

 

            Catcher                        70

            First Base                     99

            Second Base                85

            Third Base                    90

            Shortstop                     81

            Left Field                      96

            Center Field                 89

            Right Field                    94

 

            Let’s leave designated hitters out of this, since we can assume that their Runs Saved are zero.     If

            a)  those are their Runs Created,

            b)  Runs Created + Runs Saved must balance by position, and

            c)  Runs Saved must total 216,

            then we can calculate how many runs are “saved” at each position:

 

                                         Created                     Saved

Catcher                        70                         45

            First Base                     99                         16

            Second Base                85                         30

            Third Base                    90                         25

            Shortstop                     81                         34

            Left Field                      96                         19

            Center Field                 89                         26

            Right Field                    94                         21

                                              ​;                         ​; -----------

            Total                               &n​bsp;                       216

 

            These are almost the numbers that I will propose we use, but not quite.   For purposes of making a simple explanation, I assumed that outs were the same at each position.   They aren’t, of course; center fielders made an average of 493 outs over the three seasons, and catchers an average of 463.     The average Runs Created/Out at all eight positions was .184 (.183 923).   If you multiply the outs by the runs created/out and save decimals, catchers are not 19 runs behind center fielders, but actually only 13.    Our adjusted values, then, look like this:

 

                                          Created           Outs          Saved

Catcher                        70              463              42

            First Base                     99              466              13

            Second Base                85              487              32

            Third Base                    90              474              25

            Shortstop                     81              490              36

            Left Field                      96              477              19

            Center Field                 89              493              29

            Right Field                    94              474              20

                              &​nbsp;                        &​nbsp;                        ----------

            Total                                 &nbs​p;                        &nbs​p;     216

 

            216 runs at eight positions is 27 runs per position.   If a team is saving 27 runs per position in 1,444 innings, then (an average major league team plays 1,443.5+ innings a year in the field), that comes to 1 run every 53.5 innings, or .01874 runs per inning.  

                      &n​bsp;                        &n​bsp;                        &n​bsp;                        &n​bsp;         

            OK, let’s import some actual players here.   I’ll list players from 2007, maybe one per team.   Here’s a list:

                         Arizona            C        Chris Snyder

                        Atlanta             1B        Scott Thorman

                        Baltimore          2B        Brian Roberts

                        Boston             3B        Mike Lowell

                        Chicago AL      SS        Juan Uribe

                        Chicago NL     LF        Alfonso Soriano

                        Cincinnati         CF       Josh Hamilton

                        Cleveland         RF       Trot Nixon

 

                        Colorado            C       Yorvit Torrealba

                        Detroit              1B        Sean Casey

                        Florida             2B        Dan Uggla

                        Houston           3B        Morgan Ensberg

                        Kansas City      SS        Tony Pena

                        LA Angels        LF        Garrett Anderson

                        LA Dodgers     CF       Juan Pierre

                        Milwaukee       RF       Corey Hart

 

                        Minnesota          C       Joe Mauer

                        New York A    1B        Andy Phillips

                        New York N    2B        Luis Castillo

                        Oakland           3B        Eric Chavez

                        Philadelphia      SS        Jimmy Rollins

                        Pittsburgh         LF        Jason Bay

                        San Diego        CF       Mike Cameron

                        San Francisco   RF       Randy Winn

 

                        Seattle                C       Kenji Johjima

                        St. Louis           1B        Albert Pujols

                        Tampa Bay       2B        Ty Wigginton

                        Texas               3B        Ramon Vazquez

                        Toronto            SS        John McDonald

                        Washington      LF        Ryan Church

 

            The first thing we have to do is figure a “base” for each player.   For purposes of this study I am going to use only the player’s defensive numbers at the position, ignoring any fielding contributions he may have made at some other position or with some other team.   Several of the players we happened to pick switched teams; we’re only using Morgan Ensberg’s numbers with Houston and Luis Castillo’s numbers with the Mets.    Chris Snyder played 891.1 innings at catcher for Arizona in 2007.   We credit catchers with 42 Runs Saved per 1,444 innings, so that comes to 25.93 Runs Saved for Snyder, if he is an exactly average defensive catcher.    That data for these 30 players:

 

Pos      Player                           Innings  Base

 C        Chris Snyder                  891.1             25.93

1B        Scott Thorman                608.1               5.48

2B        Brian Roberts               1329.2             29.47

3B        Mike Lowell                 1324.1             22.93

SS        Juan Uribe                    1305.1             32.55

LF        Alfonso Soriano            1064                14.00

CF       Josh Hamilton                 555.2             11.16

RF       Trot Nixon                     675                  9.35

 

  C       Yorvit Torrealba             935.1             27.20

1B        Sean Casey                   989                  8.90

2B        Dan Uggla                    1383.2             30.66

3B        Morgan Ensberg             492.1               8.52

SS        Tony Pena                    1273.2             31.75

LF        Garrett Anderson            724.1               9.53

CF       Juan Pierre                   1416.1             28.45

RF       Corey Hart                   1096.2             15.19

 

  C       Joe Mauer                      777.2             22.62

1B        Andy Phillips                  431                  3.88

2B        Luis Castillo                    432                  9.57

3B        Eric Chavez                    774.2             13.41

SS        Jimmy Rollins                1441.1             35.93

LF        Jason Bay                     1237                16.28

CF       Mike Cameron             1329                26.69

RF       Randy Winn                   869                12.04

 

 C        Kenji Johjima               1106.2             32.19

1B        Albert Pujols                1324.2             11.93

2B        Ty Wigginton                  321                  7.11

3B        Ramon Vazquez             540.1               9.35

SS        John McDonald              799.1             19.93

LF        Ryan Church                  719.1               9.46

 

            This is the number of runs the player will be credited with saving if he is an average defender at the position.   If he is a good fielder, we will move him up from here; if he is below-average at the position, he goes down.  

 

            Is Chris Snyder an above-average catcher or a below-average catcher?   There is a lot that we don’t know about catchers’ defense, but we can’t worry about what we don’t know.   What we are trying to figure out is how to rank the players based on the information that we do have.  

            National League catchers in 2007 allowed 1,562 stolen bases in 23,247.1 innings.   Snyder allowed 52 stolen bases in 891.1 innings.  An average NL catcher would have allowed 59.89 stolen bases in that number of innings.   Snyder allowed 7.89 fewer steals than an average catcher.   Valuing a stolen base at .20 runs, this makes Snyder 1.578 runs better than average. 

            NL catchers caught 510 runners stealing.  Pro-rated to Snyder’s innings, we expect him to gun down 19.554 runners (18, plus Prince Fielder.)   He actually threw out 29 baserunners, making him +9.446 in this area.   Valuing a caught stealing at .35 runs, this makes Snyder 3.306 runs better than an average catcher. 

            Snyder had a fielding percentage of .999 (1 error in 780 chances)—the best fielding percentage in the major leagues at his position.  The major league average fielding percentage by a catcher was .991 (309 errors in 35,689 chances.)   Snyder thus made 5.75 fewer errors than an average catcher.  Valuing an error by a catcher at .25 runs (assuming that most E-2, but not all, are on stolen base attempts), we can estimate the value of this at 1.4375 runs.   (I am using major league data for fielding percentage but league data for stolen bases, on the theory that stolen base totals are league-specific, but fielding stats are in general not.)

            Major league catchers had 335 Passed Balls in 43,425.2 innings.  Pro-rated to Snyder’s innings, we would expect him to have 6.87 Passed Balls.   He actually had 9 Passed Balls, so in this respect he was below average, negative 2.13.   Valuing each of those at 0.20 runs, that is a negative .426.

            Adding these four things together (Stolen Bases, Caught Stealing, Errors and Passed Balls), we estimate that Snyder is 5.90 runs better than an average catcher, based on what we know.   Adding that to his 25.93 “base”, we credit him with saving 31.82 runs in 891.1 innings. 

            Now that I look at it, we have a problem here.   Our arbitrary selection criteria picked four catchers, all of whom are pretty good defensive catchers.   This is going to screw up our charts later on.   Since “catcher” is the highest-valued defensive position anyway, it’s going to look like all catchers rank better than all players at any other position.   I’d better throw in a couple of not-so-good catchers as well. . .let’s say, John Buck and Johnny Estrada. 

            While I’m expanding the field, let’s put Orlando Hudson in there, too, just because I brought up his name earlier. . .when I pose the question “Where does Orlando Hudson rank?”, I should suggest some sort of answer.  

            OK, following through that procedure for the catchers listed here, we have totals of +9.69 for Joe Mauer (who had the best catcher-throwing data in the American League), +12.56 for Kenji Johjima, +0.62 for John Buck, -0.84 for Yorvit Torrealba, and -4.21 for Johnny Estrada.    So actually, Buck comes in a hair better than average, and Torrealba a little below average.   You learn something every day. 

            Moving on to the first basemen. . .for first basemen we seem to have two things we can work with:  The Fielding +/-, and the Fielding Percentage.   Scott Thorman was +3 plays in 2007, according to the Fielding Bible Plus/Minus system.  We’ll credit him with .400 Runs Saved for each play above average, making him +1.20 on that.   His fielding percentage was .991.   The major league average at first base was .994.   Thorman was two plays worse-than-average (2.06), so he comes out +.94 plays, which is +.376 runs (actually +.378 if you work the decimals):

 

 

Pos      Player                           Innings  Base           Individual Credits       Total

 C        Chris Snyder                  891.1             25.93                  +5.90                   31.83

1B        Scott Thorman                608.1               5.48                  -0.38                      5.85

 

            I hope you understand. . .my main focus here is not in determining how good a first baseman Scott Thorman is, or how bad a catcher Johnny Estrada is.    It is necessary to the process that I am trying to outline that I have some system to say whether a player is +3 (three runs better than average) or -7 (seven runs worse than average), so I am dutifully going through the process of outlining how that might be done, with a little bit of actual data.   I am well aware that there are probably better ways to do that, and that’s fine. . .It’s just that this question is standing in my pathway and I’m trying to climb over it to get to the finish line.    If you have a better system to determine how many runs a fielder is above or below average, by all means use it.

            Anyway, my system for third basemen is the same as for first basemen.  .. .+.40 runs saved for each +/- play, and -.40 for each error above the major league norm for the position.    For second basemen and shortstops, we’ll need to add something for the ability to turn the double play.    The norm for second basemen turning a double play is about .515 Double Plays per opportunity, so we’ll credit the second basemen with .30 Runs Saved for each Double Play above .515 times GIDP Opportunities (Data from the Fielding Bible Plus/Minus in the Bill James Online.) 

            Orlando Hudson in 2007 was +20 plays made, meaning that he made 20 more plays than one would expect an average second baseman to make.   That makes him +8.00 runs.   His fielding percentage was .985 against a major league for second basemen of .984, so he’s almost average there, +0.28 plays.   He had 166 Double Play Opportunities and turned 89 Double Plays, whereas an average second baseman would have turned 85.5, so he’s 3.5 Double Plays above average.

            I give a little less weight to a Double Play because there are more people involved in it, so that it gives a less clear or less certain indication of the player’s individual performance.   Anyway, adding those together, Hudson is +9.17 Runs Saved, above his base, which is 26.22.   We thus credit him with saving 35.39 runs. 

            The norm for Double Plays per opportunity at shortstop is higher than at second base, probably because there are more 5-4-3 double play attempts than 3-6-3.  Anyway, the norm for shortstops is about .615; otherwise the process is the same.  

            John McDonald, Toronto’s magic-fingered shortstop, fielded .982 against a major league norm of .972; that made him 4.465 plays better than average.   According to The Fielding Bible he was +26 plays.   He turned 63 double plays in 110 double play opportunities, a below-average figure; he’s 4.65 plays below average.  Adding these together, McDonald is about 10.79 Runs better than an average shortstop:

 

            (4.465 * .4)  + (26 * .4) –  (4.65 * .30)  =  10.79

 

            Adding that to his “position base”, which was 19.93 runs, we credit McDonald with saving 30.72 runs in 799.1 innings. 

            Some people will object that Fielding Percentages (errors) and the Fielding Bible’s +/- measure the same plays, thus that our calculation is redundant.   It is true that it can be redundant, sometimes.

            But I think the better arguments are on the other side of the issue.  

            1)  “Errors” were not a great idea and are not a good way to evaluate a fielder by themselves, but they are a very specific observation.  A player who is charged with an error has, in almost all cases, made a clearly observable mistake.   A fielder who is “+” a play may simply be benefiting from team positioning decisions, or he may be benefiting from some poorly-understood wrinkle in the +/- range evaluation system.   It’s not really the same thing.

            2)  An event which is observed twice, by different evaluation systems, is more concrete than an event which is observed by one system but missed by another.   Assuming that this is a redundant measure—which it is sometimes—that’s OK, because an event which can be observed by both systems is more tangible and more certain than an event which appears in only one.

            3)  In many cases or perhaps most cases, errors actually are not plays that would show up in the fielder’s plus/minus range.   Certainly many of them would not—overthrows allowing advancement, errors made in receiving throws from another fielder, etc. 

            For outfielders, we have the two elements we had for first and third basemen--+.40 for a “plus” play in the Fielding Bible, -.40 for an error (or +.40 for an error not made.)   Also, for outfielders, we have “throwing” data. . .what do we do with that?

            A left fielder “allows advancement” on about 40% of advancement opportunities.   We’ll credit him with .15 runs saved for each base not advanced below. 400, and charge him with .15 for bases advanced beyond .400.    Center Fielders and Right Fielders the same, except that the norm is about .55.   (Runners don’t go first-to-third on balls hit to left.) 

            OK, I figured the “Individual Plus/Minus Run Elements” for each of the 33 fielders now in our study.   This is the data, added to the chart above:

 

Pos      Player                           Innings  Base           Individual Credits       Total

 C        Chris Snyder                  891.1             25.93                  +5.90                   31.83

1B        Scott Thorman                608.1               5.48                  -0.38                      5.85

2B        Brian Roberts               1329.2             29.47                  +0.49                   29.95

3B        Mike Lowell                 1324.1             22.93                  +2.79                   25.72

SS        Juan Uribe                    1305.1             32.55                  -2.53                    30.01

LF        Alfonso Soriano            1064                14.00                  -1.23                    12.77

CF       Josh Hamilton                 555.2             11.16                  -0.73                    10.43

RF       Trot Nixon                     675                  9.35                  -2.97                      6.38

 

  C       Yorvit Torrealba             935.1             27.20                  -0.84                    26.36

1B        Sean Casey                    989                  8.90                  -0.62                      8.28

2B        Dan Uggla                    1383.2             30.66                  -7.06                    23.60

3B        Morgan Ensberg             492.1               8.52                  -4.08                      4.45

SS        Tony Pena                    1273.2             31.75                    6.26                   38.01

LF        Garrett Anderson            724.1               9.53                  -1.75                      7.78

CF       Juan Pierre                   1416.1             28.45                  +0.55                   29.00

RF       Corey Hart                   1096.2             15.19                  +3.58                   18.77

 

  C       Joe Mauer                      777.2             22.62                  +9.69                   32.31

1B        Andy Phillips                  431                  3.88                  +3.82                     7.70

2B        Luis Castillo                    432                  9.57                  -1.52                      8.05

3B        Eric Chavez                    774.2             13.41                  +3.06                   16.47

SS        Jimmy Rollins                1441.1             35.93                  +6.39                   42.32

LF        Jason Bay                     1237                16.28                  -9.00                      7.28

CF       Mike Cameron             1329                26.69                  -2.54                    24.15

RF       Randy Winn                   869                12.04                  +5.25                   17.29

 

 C        Kenji Johjima               1106.2             32.19               +12.56                   44.75

1B        Albert Pujols                1324.2             11.93               +14.03                   25.96

2B        Ty Wigginton                  321                  7.11                   -1.66                     5.45

3B        Ramon Vazquez             540.1               9.35                   +0.31                    9.67

SS        John McDonald              799.1             19.93                 +10.79                  30.72

LF        Ryan Church                  719.1               9.46                   +5.38                  14.85

  C       John Buck                      924.1             26.88                   +0.62                  27.50

  C       Johnny Estrada             961                  27.95                   -4.21                   23.74

2B        Orlando Hudson           1183.1             26.22                   +9.17                  35.39

 

            So Kenji Johjima and NL MVP Jimmy Rollins are listed now as the players who saved the most runs.   

            These numbers, however, are raw totals, rather than per-inning averages.   In order to compare players on a level playing field, we have to convert these into per-inning averages.   For cosmetic reasons I’ll list them per 1000 innings. 

            By this analysis, the highest-rated defensive player among these 33, in the year 2007, would be Joe Mauer of the Twins.   Mauer, playing a critical defensive position with outstanding defensive numbers, is credited with 32.31 Runs Saved in 777.2 innings, which is 41.5 Runs Saved per 1000 innings:

 

                                   &n​bsp;                        &n​bsp;                        &n​bsp;                    Runs Saved

Rank                        &​nbsp;                        &​nbsp;                        &​nbsp; Runs                Per 1000

     Position      Player                            Innings  Saved               Innings

1.  Catcher       Joe Mauer                      777.2             32.31               41.5

2.  Catcher       Kenji Johjima               1106.2             44.75               40.4

3.  Shortstop    John McDonald              799.1             30.72               38.4

4.  Catcher       Chris Snyder                  891.1             31.82               35.7

5.  Second        Orlando Hudson           1183.1             35.39               29.9

6.  Shortstop    Tony Pena                    1273.2             38.01               29.8

7.  Catcher       John Buck                      924.1             27.50               29.8

8.  Shortstop    Jimmy Rollins                1441.1             42.32               29.4

9.  Catcher       Yorvit Torrealba             935.1             26.36               28.2

10. Catcher      Johnny Estrada             961                  23.74               24.7

11. Shortstop   Juan Uribe                    1305.1             30.01               23.0

 

12. Second       Brian Roberts               1329.2             29.95               22.5

13. Third          Eric Chavez                    774.2             16.47               21.3

14. Left            Ryan Church                  719.1             14.85               20.6

15. Center        Juan Pierre                   1416.2             29.00               20.5

16. Right          Randy Winn                   869                17.29               19.9

17. First           Albert Pujols                1324.2             25.96               19.6

18. Third          Mike Lowell                 1324.1             25.72               19.4

19. Center        Josh Hamilton                 555.2             10.43               18.8

20. Second       Luis Castillo                    432                  8.05               18.6

21. Center        Mike Cameron             1329                24.15               18.2

22. Third          Ramon Vazquez             540.1               9.67               17.9

 

23. First           Andy Phillips                  431                  7.70               17.9

24. Right          Corey Hart                   1096.2             18.77               17.1

25. Second       Dan Uggla                    1383.2             23.60               17.1

26. Second       Ty Wigginton                  321                  5.45               17.0

27. Left            Alfonso Soriano            1064                12.77               12.0

28. Left            Garret Anderson             724.1               7.78               10.7

29. First           Scott Thorman                608.1               5.85                 9.6

30. Right          Trot Nixon                     675                  6.38                 9.5

31. Third          Morgan Ensberg             492.1               4.45                 9.0

32.  First          Sean Casey                    989                  8.28                 8.4

33.  Left           Jason Bay                     1237                  7.28                 5.9

 

            So we have reached our goal line.   These are the numbers by which we can give a reasonable answer to the question:  Where does Orlando Hudson’s defense rank him, among all major league players?  He ranks at about the 85th profile, if this group of players is representative of all major league players. 

            I’m a little surprised that the number isn’t higher.   If Hudson ranks at the 92nd percentile among second basemen, and second base is a relatively high-value defensive position, one might guess intuitively that he would rank higher than the 92nd percentile among all players.   But having gone through this exercise, I see why this cannot be true.  Second basemen in general cannot rank ahead of catchers and shortstops.   If Hudson ranked ahead of all other second basemen, but below the catchers and shortstops, that would put him at about the 75th percentile—ahead of the first basemen, third basemen, the outfielders and all of the other second basemen, thus ahead of six positions, but behind two.   Because the numbers spread out, he does rank ahead of a good many of the shortstops and some of the catchers, and he ranks higher than the 75th percentile—but not back up to the 92nd.

 
 

COMMENTS (12 Comments, most recent shown first)

okin15
Agreed with other commenters. If a run is saved, it can't be scored, so runs saved can't equal runs scored.
8:41 PM Jan 21st
 
tbwhite
I agree with the first comments, I fundamentally don't understand why Runs Scored by say the Phillies opponents = Runs Saved by the Phillies. It seems to me the correct equation Runs Scored by Opponent = Runs NOT Saved. I think you would have to back into Runs Saved by first calculating what an average or replacement level team would have allowed.

Ultimately it feels like this would be heading down the Voros McCracken(I probably mangled the name) path. Pitchers would save runs based on how much better or worse they were than average at striking guys out, not walking people, and not giving up homers. The defense would get credit for the difference between their BABIP and the league average BABIP, perhaps you could adjust for the FB/GB tendencies as well.
8:01 PM Dec 12th
 
vtek88
Wow, that must have taken a lot of work. Great as always, Mr. James.
2:27 PM Dec 10th
 
tangotiger
The explanation for why the run value of turning a sure hit into a sure out is worth .80 runs is detailed here:

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/why_saving_a_play_is_worth_08_runs/

Read the whole thread, as it has some good stuff.

10:17 AM Dec 10th
 
belewfripp
You say that we should leave the DH out of it, b/c they do not save any runs, since they do not play defense. But don't the other defensive positions 'save' runs that would potentially be created by DHs?
2:02 AM Dec 9th
 
aaronB
Marco Scutaro, not Marcus
6:16 PM Dec 8th
 
Trailbzr
I _think_ catchers are being double-credited for their lesser playing time.
The position-base and average-play measurements are calculated using all catchers, including second-stringers. Hence, first-string catchers are credited for being better than second-string catchers.
Then, at the end, each individual's ratings is inflated as if he had played all the innings, hence not penalizing the player for needing replacement by a lesser player.
6:11 PM Dec 8th
 
tangotiger
And I'll also offer this study I did:
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/offense_by_position_groups_by_decade/
4:48 PM Dec 8th
 
tangotiger
I should say great 3B hitting relative to their fielding talents.
4:46 PM Dec 8th
 
tangotiger
A few points:
1. A play saved is worth around .80 runs (.75 for infielders, .85 for outfielders).

2. UZR is now available at Fangraphs.com, using BIS data. I'd highly recommend using that, ahead of Fielding Percentage. UZR is like Dewan's plus/minus, except it uses more parameters.

3. I have studied the issue of cross-position comparison alot. If one must use the offensive run production as the "balance" to force each position as equals, one should use long-term run production (at least 10 years, if not 20). Otherwise, you may have cases where the league CF outhits the league 1B if you use one-year or three-year totals. Or, having Bonds in the league (2001-2004) will totally knock you for a loop.

4. For whatever it's worth, I use the following adjustments:
12.5 C
7.5 SS
2.5 CF
2.5 2B
2.5 3B
-7.5 LF
-7.5 RF
-12.5 1B

So, a SS who is -7.5 runs relative to the average SS has the same fielding value as a 1B who is +12.5 runs.

If I subtract 27 runs from your scale, so that we both centered to 0, your scale becomes:
15 C
9 SS
5 2B
2 CF
-2 3B
-7 RF
-8 LF
-14 1B

We are in general agreement, except for 2B/3B. I believe that we are in the midst of great 3B hitting, and that, overall (offense + defense), 3B is way ahead of 2B these days.

4:42 PM Dec 8th
 
studes
Interesting approach, but two fundamental things bother me:

1. I understand why runs scored equals runs allowed, but why should runs saved equal runs allowed? I'm not sure what you mean. What is a run saved, anyway?

2. I think the process of equating defensive value with relative offensive production is flawed. Just look at the DH, which doesn't provide as much value as first basemen, on average, yet have no fielding impact at all. Or, for catchers, it seems obvious to me that the extreme demands on catchers both impact their offensive production and make the available pool of talent for catchers less than other positions. Also, the relative standing of different positions has varied over time -- does that mean their fielding value has also varied accordingly?

I do think we can move beyond the "offensive value is inverse to the relative defensive of each position" guideline, given the data now available for multi-position players.
4:40 PM Dec 8th
 
dhowgate
I think I'm being really dense, but I don't understand why runs scored have to equal runs saved.
4:40 PM Dec 8th
 
 
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